Jrue Holiday Extension or ......

[Vermont Green]

He'd have to take a Horford-like discount to stay with us long term. White needs to be the #1 priority before anyone else.

White is under contract for one more year.  We can’t even offer our best extension until next summer, and if we do offer him an extension it the most it can starts at $28 million in two seasons.  We should extend Holiday and worry about White later, because that might be July 2025’s problem, if it even becomes one.

Interesting strategy.  It is definitely true that we don't really need and probably don't want to pay both of them moving forward.  Better to pay one of them and then have more money to spend for other positions.  White and Holiday play the same position.  They are both combo guards (CG, my new abbreviation) who lean more to the PG role than the SG role (although both can play either).  I would rather pay for say a starting PF and a starting CG, over two starting CG.

But your point is well taken, if we let Holiday get to be a UFA and also White decides to "test the market" we risk losing both.  When you say extend Holiday, do you mean now/this off season?  Does this assume he picks up his 2024/25 option and years are added to this?  Holiday will be 34 years old at the start of next season (White will be 30).  As to what his fair market value would be, I have no idea.  With all the new CBA rules, not very many teams can offer a big contract to a UFA who is not their own.

As an extension though, I guess we could offer say 3 years $20M.  If you include the player option year, that ends up being something in the range of 4 years/$100M.  He would be 37 at the start of the last season of that contract, that could be fine or he could decline significantly.  We could still probably trade him on that contract if we are able to extend White down the road.  I don't think Holiday wants to be traded again though.  I would much rather have White than Holiday for the next 4-5 seasons

[Phantom255x]

I predict something like $75M/3 years. With $39M guaranteed, that comes out to only $18M for years 2 and 3.

I don’t  think he is just going to pretend that $39M isn’t on the table, so that unfortunately needs to be included in whatever extension you offer. $25M/yr is palatable and also tradable in a year or two if things aren’t working out.

Can the Celtics realistically keep him at that price though assuming you also keep White? That has to be pushing a 200M+ payroll with a ton of penalties in place. Tatum's supermax will also kick in soon. Ugh

I posted this in the Jaylen appreciation thread in the context of if/when we may have to trade Jaylen eventually...the Jrue decision will be the first of a number of decisions Brad has to make that would eventually determine if we could keep the gang together for another couple of years and if trading Jaylen may end up becoming an option (in fact it might have been you that brought up the possibility of trading Jaylen, in his appreciation thread of all places  ). This is our contract situation from Spotrac:

click to enlarge


If we win a championship this season and want to run it back again next season, the question would be how to keep the players who we won't have under control next year - Jrue being the main one as he has a player option next season for $39.4m, and the others being the bench pieces Brissett (player option $2.5m), Kornet, Mykhailiuk and Stevens (all UFAs), Davison (RFA), Queta (RFA).

We also have to decide what to do with Hauser ($2m club option), and Banton ($2m club option). We probably keep them as they are cheap, Banton may be disposable. If they can keep the gang together for another season, and not give Kornet a pay increase (and you can't blame him for wanting one after being on minimum deals his whole career), and get Jrue to take a more team friendly deal that brings us below the 2nd apron (maybe an extension in the $20-25m range since we would be $12m over the 2nd apron if everyone comes back) then they definitely won't be trading Brown.

2025-26 is the big year because that's when Tatum's supermax becomes eligible to be signed. That's going to be somewhere north of $60m plus incentives since the salary cap will be at least $156.2m by then. That's when tough decisions will have to be made, and the decision that Jrue and the team makes this offseason will factor heavily into that. And the year after that Hauser becomes a FA, he's probably going to want, and deserve, more than the $2m we're paying him now. We also have to decide what to do with White (will probably command more than the $19m he's on now), and Al ($10m). Maybe Derrick doesn't end up qualifying for a max contract...maybe Sam doesn't have to be paid Kyle Korver money...maybe Al takes a vet min if he's even still playing by then. That's going to be the season where they have to make some tough decisions on Jaylen and whether to sell high, break his salary into a couple of tradable pieces or stick with him.

$20m is probably too low for Jrue, unless he decides to take a team friendly deal to keep the gang together. $25m I think is a realistic valuation for him, but of course his option is for nearly $40m, and he would need to calculate if other teams might give him something similar over 3+ years in FA and if he wants to test that instead of staying with us. We have seen players like Hayward and Al chase the money elsewhere. He did say he likes it here and wants to stay, but the Benjamins are going to play a big factor in that...and I'm sure that Brad and his stats nerds have modelled out all the permutations of how to retain those key players and how much they can afford to be paid, or if we do end up overpaying some of them, how fungible those contracts would be 

Personally I'd like to keep them all together as long as we possibly can...I think we have something special with this team, tonight's thrashing notwithstanding. Hopefully Brad can figure it out 

TP. Sorry I missed this on that thread.

[green_bballers13]

My question to you is simple.  Who would you rather this year, Jrue Holiday or Dejounte Murray and Clint Capela?

Jrue.

[Roy H.]

My question to you is simple.  Who would you rather this year, Jrue Holiday or Dejounte Murray and Clint Capela?

Jrue.

Yeah, I think there's an argument for Murray + Capela, but not during the middle of the season.

I mean, we all remember the Perk trade, right?  Krstic + Green + #1 was probably a win on talent (particularly because Perk hadn't played much), but it killed chemistry.  Jrue probably doesn't have that cache with teammates, but he fits in perfectly.  Why risk that?

[BitterJim]

My question to you is simple.  Who would you rather this year, Jrue Holiday or Dejounte Murray and Clint Capela?

Jrue.

Yeah, I think there's an argument for Murray + Capela, but not during the middle of the season.

I mean, we all remember the Perk trade, right?  Krstic + Green + #1 was probably a win on talent (particularly because Perk hadn't played much), but it killed chemistry.  Jrue probably doesn't have that cache with teammates, but he fits in perfectly.  Why risk that?

I'd especially hate to trade our only guy with a ring for a couple of guys who have never even made the finals. I think Jrue's voice in the locker room will be invaluable come June.

[Vermont Green]

My question to you is simple.  Who would you rather this year, Jrue Holiday or Dejounte Murray and Clint Capela?

Jrue.

Yeah, I think there's an argument for Murray + Capela, but not during the middle of the season.

I mean, we all remember the Perk trade, right?  Krstic + Green + #1 was probably a win on talent (particularly because Perk hadn't played much), but it killed chemistry.  Jrue probably doesn't have that cache with teammates, but he fits in perfectly.  Why risk that?

I agree with this but I think there is more to it than just chemistry.  It takes some time for new players integrate.  Look at how White played when he first got here.  We can't afford to risk chemistry or the learning curve required by new players.

And on the Perk trade, I think you omitted the biggest factor.  When Perk was traded, he was hurt and Shaq was healthy and playing well.  Soon after the trade, Shaq got hurt and was essentially out for the year.  Perk ended up even more hurt also.  I don't doubt that Perk had a positive impact on the locker room but had Shaq stayed healthy, I am not sure how much that would have mattered (hard to know).  It was also reported that Perk had turned down an extension offer but signed for a little less in OKC (which turned out to be a bad signing).

[Moranis]

My question to you is simple.  Who would you rather this year, Jrue Holiday or Dejounte Murray and Clint Capela?

Jrue.

Yeah, I think there's an argument for Murray + Capela, but not during the middle of the season.

I mean, we all remember the Perk trade, right?  Krstic + Green + #1 was probably a win on talent (particularly because Perk hadn't played much), but it killed chemistry.  Jrue probably doesn't have that cache with teammates, but he fits in perfectly.  Why risk that?

I agree with this but I think there is more to it than just chemistry.  It takes some time for new players integrate.  Look at how White played when he first got here.  We can't afford to risk chemistry or the learning curve required by new players.

And on the Perk trade, I think you omitted the biggest factor.  When Perk was traded, he was hurt and Shaq was healthy and playing well.  Soon after the trade, Shaq got hurt and was essentially out for the year.  Perk ended up even more hurt also.  I don't doubt that Perk had a positive impact on the locker room but had Shaq stayed healthy, I am not sure how much that would have mattered (hard to know).  It was also reported that Perk had turned down an extension offer but signed for a little less in OKC (which turned out to be a bad signing).

Pierce was hurt also and I think Daniels or someone else was out. They had like no wings so adding Green was huge in the immediate aftermath of that trade.