My Turn Offense

[KeepBigAl]

I don't know if it's the players or Brad - but this team has a bad case of taking turns going 1 on 1 (usually launching a 3 or dribbling right at 3 defenders in the lane).  It was evident in the Miami series and most of the time we are losing late in games and pressure is on. 

What is the solution here - how do we get the big 3 to take advantage of each other's presence, rather than simply going 1 on 1 all the time?  Using Tatum/Brown in the post? Should Kemba be the 6th man point, and off the ball in the 4th so we can use a true pg?   I don't feel we can advance past good teams unless this is resolved.

[Jiri Welsch]

This was the first game the Celtics played where Kemba, Brown, and Tatum were all healthy. Tatum also wasn't shooting well yesterday, and Brown unfortunately wasn't handling the ball as much late in the game.

All that is to say: let's give it some time. Our offense seemed to run decently last playoff run (with a few notable exceptions). I have faith that Brown and Tatum's distributing skills will only improve between now and the end of the season.

[nickagneta]

I think this is going to be something we as fans are going to have to live with for a while. Right now, at 22 and 24 years old, it's important for the Jays to learn to create their own offense. While they get very comfortable knowing they can efficiently create for themselves, both players will also learn to use those moves to create for others.

For instance, both Brown and Tatum have been finding new ways to get to the basket and attempt to finish. Sometimes, they put up terrible shots in traffic in the lane surrounded by collapsing defenders. They WILL eventually learn to kick it out to the open man in these circumstances. Then they will learn to see it coming early enough to get that pass off earlier for more wide open shots and less turnovers. And they will learn to be much better in pick and roll offense as they do it more and more.

It's going to happen. But learning playmaking takes time. It took Kawhi Leonard until he was 27, almost 9 years in the league, to average 5 assists a game and learn to create for others. DeMar DeRozan is another guy that took a while to learn to create for others. Even Kevin Durant took 5-6 years before he started to become the playmaker he is today.

We will need patience as fans. Right now, both guys are still learning how to be the focal point of the offense when it comes to scoring. They will get better at involving others as they have their hands on the ball more and more.

Patience.

[td450]

I think this is going to be something we as fans are going to have to live with for a while. Right now, at 22 and 24 years old, it's important for the Jays to learn to create their own offense. While they get very comfortable knowing they can efficiently create for themselves, both players will also learn to use those moves to create for others.

For instance, both Brown and Tatum have been finding new ways to get to the basket and attempt to finish. Sometimes, they put up terrible shots in traffic in the lane surrounded by collapsing defenders. They WILL eventually learn to kick it out to the open man in these circumstances. Then they will learn to see it coming early enough to get that pass off earlier for more wide open shots and less turnovers. And they will learn to be much better in pick and roll offense as they do it more and more.

It's going to happen. But learning playmaking takes time. It took Kawhi Leonard until he was 27, almost 9 years in the league, to average 5 assists a game and learn to create for others. DeMar DeRozan is another guy that took a while to learn to create for others. Even Kevin Durant took 5-6 years before he started to become the playmaker he is today.

We will need patience as fans. Right now, both guys are still learning how to be the focal point of the offense when it comes to scoring. They will get better at involving others as they have their hands on the ball more and more.

Patience.

OK but what about Walker, Smart and Teague?

I thought for a couple of games that I saw dawn breaks over Marblehead with Marcus Smart. After several games of taking too many shots, he took 8 and then 6 (and not surprisingly, with 9 and 11 assists) against Cleveland and Chicago. We ran both teams off the court. Then last night, bad Marcus came back.

We give a ton of minutes to these three and they aren't good at keeping the ball moving. When two of them are on the court at the same time, which happens a lot, the offense bogs down.

[nickagneta]

I think this is going to be something we as fans are going to have to live with for a while. Right now, at 22 and 24 years old, it's important for the Jays to learn to create their own offense. While they get very comfortable knowing they can efficiently create for themselves, both players will also learn to use those moves to create for others.

For instance, both Brown and Tatum have been finding new ways to get to the basket and attempt to finish. Sometimes, they put up terrible shots in traffic in the lane surrounded by collapsing defenders. They WILL eventually learn to kick it out to the open man in these circumstances. Then they will learn to see it coming early enough to get that pass off earlier for more wide open shots and less turnovers. And they will learn to be much better in pick and roll offense as they do it more and more.

It's going to happen. But learning playmaking takes time. It took Kawhi Leonard until he was 27, almost 9 years in the league, to average 5 assists a game and learn to create for others. DeMar DeRozan is another guy that took a while to learn to create for others. Even Kevin Durant took 5-6 years before he started to become the playmaker he is today.

We will need patience as fans. Right now, both guys are still learning how to be the focal point of the offense when it comes to scoring. They will get better at involving others as they have their hands on the ball more and more.

Patience.

OK but what about Walker, Smart and Teague?

I thought for a couple of games that I saw dawn breaks over Marblehead with Marcus Smart. After several games of taking too many shots, he took 8 and then 6 (and not surprisingly, with 9 and 11 assists) against Cleveland and Chicago. We ran both teams off the court. Then last night, bad Marcus came back.

We give a ton of minutes to these three and they aren't good at keeping the ball moving. When two of them are on the court at the same time, which happens a lot, the offense bogs down.

Teague....should not be playing and I can easily see him riding the bench when Pritchard returns.

Kemba has played five games, mostly off ball, and has been working more on getting his own offense up to par. He was great last year in his role before getting hurt. Kemba's ability to work within the offense is not something I would be concerned about.

Smart.....well, Smart is Smart. You hope for more nights like he had the previous two games, but the reality is he forces too much offense because he thinks he is a much better offensive player than he really is. If you love what Smart gives the team defensively, you have to live with his Jekyll and Hyde performances on the other end of the floor.

[td450]

I think this is going to be something we as fans are going to have to live with for a while. Right now, at 22 and 24 years old, it's important for the Jays to learn to create their own offense. While they get very comfortable knowing they can efficiently create for themselves, both players will also learn to use those moves to create for others.

For instance, both Brown and Tatum have been finding new ways to get to the basket and attempt to finish. Sometimes, they put up terrible shots in traffic in the lane surrounded by collapsing defenders. They WILL eventually learn to kick it out to the open man in these circumstances. Then they will learn to see it coming early enough to get that pass off earlier for more wide open shots and less turnovers. And they will learn to be much better in pick and roll offense as they do it more and more.

It's going to happen. But learning playmaking takes time. It took Kawhi Leonard until he was 27, almost 9 years in the league, to average 5 assists a game and learn to create for others. DeMar DeRozan is another guy that took a while to learn to create for others. Even Kevin Durant took 5-6 years before he started to become the playmaker he is today.

We will need patience as fans. Right now, both guys are still learning how to be the focal point of the offense when it comes to scoring. They will get better at involving others as they have their hands on the ball more and more.

Patience.

OK but what about Walker, Smart and Teague?

I thought for a couple of games that I saw dawn breaks over Marblehead with Marcus Smart. After several games of taking too many shots, he took 8 and then 6 (and not surprisingly, with 9 and 11 assists) against Cleveland and Chicago. We ran both teams off the court. Then last night, bad Marcus came back.

We give a ton of minutes to these three and they aren't good at keeping the ball moving. When two of them are on the court at the same time, which happens a lot, the offense bogs down.

Teague....should not be playing and I can easily see him riding the bench when Pritchard returns.

Kemba has played five games, mostly off ball, and has been working more on getting his own offense up to par. He was great last year in his role before getting hurt. Kemba's ability to work within the offense is not something I would be concerned about.

Smart.....well, Smart is Smart. You hope for more nights like he had the previous two games, but the reality is he forces too much offense because he thinks he is a much better offensive player than he really is. If you love what Smart gives the team defensively, you have to live with his Jekyll and Hyde performances on the other end of the floor.

I buy your explanation, but add those up and that composes the problem. They play about 75 minutes, and as a group they have typically not shot well, they all dribble a lot and they are inconsistent passers. When Kemba shoots relatively well, or when Smart plays within himself, or when Pritchard returns and Teague stops playing, the problems melt away, but right now those things aren't happening.

[nickagneta]

I think this is going to be something we as fans are going to have to live with for a while. Right now, at 22 and 24 years old, it's important for the Jays to learn to create their own offense. While they get very comfortable knowing they can efficiently create for themselves, both players will also learn to use those moves to create for others.

For instance, both Brown and Tatum have been finding new ways to get to the basket and attempt to finish. Sometimes, they put up terrible shots in traffic in the lane surrounded by collapsing defenders. They WILL eventually learn to kick it out to the open man in these circumstances. Then they will learn to see it coming early enough to get that pass off earlier for more wide open shots and less turnovers. And they will learn to be much better in pick and roll offense as they do it more and more.

It's going to happen. But learning playmaking takes time. It took Kawhi Leonard until he was 27, almost 9 years in the league, to average 5 assists a game and learn to create for others. DeMar DeRozan is another guy that took a while to learn to create for others. Even Kevin Durant took 5-6 years before he started to become the playmaker he is today.

We will need patience as fans. Right now, both guys are still learning how to be the focal point of the offense when it comes to scoring. They will get better at involving others as they have their hands on the ball more and more.

Patience.

OK but what about Walker, Smart and Teague?

I thought for a couple of games that I saw dawn breaks over Marblehead with Marcus Smart. After several games of taking too many shots, he took 8 and then 6 (and not surprisingly, with 9 and 11 assists) against Cleveland and Chicago. We ran both teams off the court. Then last night, bad Marcus came back.

We give a ton of minutes to these three and they aren't good at keeping the ball moving. When two of them are on the court at the same time, which happens a lot, the offense bogs down.

Teague....should not be playing and I can easily see him riding the bench when Pritchard returns.

Kemba has played five games, mostly off ball, and has been working more on getting his own offense up to par. He was great last year in his role before getting hurt. Kemba's ability to work within the offense is not something I would be concerned about.

Smart.....well, Smart is Smart. You hope for more nights like he had the previous two games, but the reality is he forces too much offense because he thinks he is a much better offensive player than he really is. If you love what Smart gives the team defensively, you have to live with his Jekyll and Hyde performances on the other end of the floor.

I buy your explanation, but add those up and that composes the problem. They play about 75 minutes, and as a group they have typically not shot well, they all dribble a lot and they are inconsistent passers. When Kemba shoots relatively well, or when Smart plays within himself, or when Pritchard returns and Teague stops playing, the problems melt away, but right now those things aren't happening.

But there is every reason to believe once Kemba settles in, he will play more within himself, setting up others and that Pritchard will return and take Teague's place.

Smart, the team and fans will just have to live with what he brings to the table as I don't see Ainge trading him any time soon.

The season is only 23-25% over. Still a long regular season and playoffs to go. If everyone is healthy, things will get better offensively.

Thing is though, the problem with this team isn't the offense. They suck defensively and that's what needs to improve more.

[Tr1boy]

I don't know if it's the players or Brad - but this team has a bad case of taking turns going 1 on 1 (usually launching a 3 or dribbling right at 3 defenders in the lane).  It was evident in the Miami series and most of the time we are losing late in games and pressure is on. 

What is the solution here - how do we get the big 3 to take advantage of each other's presence, rather than simply going 1 on 1 all the time?  Using Tatum/Brown in the post? Should Kemba be the 6th man point, and off the ball in the 4th so we can use a true pg?   I don't feel we can advance past good teams unless this is resolved.

Its not organized

Lack of poise when the intensity rises

Last season the Celts had Hayward be that point forward

This season that guy is Pritchard... a rookie

[td450]

I think this is going to be something we as fans are going to have to live with for a while. Right now, at 22 and 24 years old, it's important for the Jays to learn to create their own offense. While they get very comfortable knowing they can efficiently create for themselves, both players will also learn to use those moves to create for others.

For instance, both Brown and Tatum have been finding new ways to get to the basket and attempt to finish. Sometimes, they put up terrible shots in traffic in the lane surrounded by collapsing defenders. They WILL eventually learn to kick it out to the open man in these circumstances. Then they will learn to see it coming early enough to get that pass off earlier for more wide open shots and less turnovers. And they will learn to be much better in pick and roll offense as they do it more and more.

It's going to happen. But learning playmaking takes time. It took Kawhi Leonard until he was 27, almost 9 years in the league, to average 5 assists a game and learn to create for others. DeMar DeRozan is another guy that took a while to learn to create for others. Even Kevin Durant took 5-6 years before he started to become the playmaker he is today.

We will need patience as fans. Right now, both guys are still learning how to be the focal point of the offense when it comes to scoring. They will get better at involving others as they have their hands on the ball more and more.

Patience.

OK but what about Walker, Smart and Teague?

I thought for a couple of games that I saw dawn breaks over Marblehead with Marcus Smart. After several games of taking too many shots, he took 8 and then 6 (and not surprisingly, with 9 and 11 assists) against Cleveland and Chicago. We ran both teams off the court. Then last night, bad Marcus came back.

We give a ton of minutes to these three and they aren't good at keeping the ball moving. When two of them are on the court at the same time, which happens a lot, the offense bogs down.

Teague....should not be playing and I can easily see him riding the bench when Pritchard returns.

Kemba has played five games, mostly off ball, and has been working more on getting his own offense up to par. He was great last year in his role before getting hurt. Kemba's ability to work within the offense is not something I would be concerned about.

Smart.....well, Smart is Smart. You hope for more nights like he had the previous two games, but the reality is he forces too much offense because he thinks he is a much better offensive player than he really is. If you love what Smart gives the team defensively, you have to live with his Jekyll and Hyde performances on the other end of the floor.

I buy your explanation, but add those up and that composes the problem. They play about 75 minutes, and as a group they have typically not shot well, they all dribble a lot and they are inconsistent passers. When Kemba shoots relatively well, or when Smart plays within himself, or when Pritchard returns and Teague stops playing, the problems melt away, but right now those things aren't happening.

But there is every reason to believe once Kemba settles in, he will play more within himself, setting up others and that Pritchard will return and take Teague's place.

Smart, the team and fans will just have to live with what he brings to the table as I don't see Ainge trading him any time soon.

The season is only 23-25% over. Still a long regular season and playoffs to go. If everyone is healthy, things will get better offensively.

Thing is though, the problem with this team isn't the offense. They suck defensively and that's what needs to improve more.

Why is there "every reason to believe once Kemba settles in, he will play more within himself, setting up others"?

He has a record on this team and in Charlotte of being a primary option. He's a professional scorer. He comes back this year, and he's a distant third option. He's not showing he's thought through a new role and is trying to play differently. He's just playing exactly like he did before, except he's not shooting quite as well.

I agree that he will likely shoot and pass more like last year, and that is an improvement. But that's not the same as him getting the new reality. When he's out there with both J's, he needs to move the ball and stretch the floor so they can drive. When one of them checks out, he becomes the second option and can shoot more. He hasn't shown he gets that yet.

[cltc5]

This team and many of brads teams need a facilitating pg not a scoring pg.  IT, kyrie, now kemba.  All scoring pg.  we have nice spacing and scoring with the J’s.  They need a facilitator.  Every pg on the team outside Pritchard and waters are looking for their shot.  Can.t happen and still win while the J’s are growing.  JB is a completely different player out there with Kemba.

[Tr1boy]

This team and many of brads teams need a facilitating pg not a scoring pg.  IT, kyrie, now kemba.  All scoring pg.  we have nice spacing and scoring with the J’s.  They need a facilitator.  Every pg on the team outside Pritchard and waters are looking for their shot.  Can.t happen and still win while the J’s are growing.  JB is a completely different player out there with Kemba.

Sometimes I wonder if its by design

And Brad actually wants to be the pseudo pg from the sidelines

These days he is calling plays from the sidelines like crazy.  Almost for every possession.... and its kind of annoying if you ask me

The only times I have seen him not yell at the top of his lungs is when Hayward brought up the ball,  Irving or Rondo brought up the ball (because they were not going to listen to Brad anyways),   and at times this season when Pritchard brought up the ball

this is why a player like Pritchard is good for the team.  He is a true floor general.  Brad can relax a little and focus on other things on the court/longterm game strategy/pattern. 

[Vermont Green]

I agree with the general premise of the OP.  It seems like they say oh, Tatum hit a nice shot, let's go to him 5 times in a row.  I think the main issue though has been Kemba working himself back in.  To me, he is the primary one who is trying to do too much right now.  He should be option 1C, not option 1A.

[LilRip]

The difference in offense between the Spurs and the C’s is staggering. We got burned by multiple back door cuts (I don’t know why CBS went away from that especially given how well it worked the past 2 games) and good ball movement.

Meanwhile, C’s run iso a lot and rely on raw talent of JB/JT to create. Granted, I loved the post ups Tatum was getting (he looked like KD for a stretch there) and I think we should run more of that, but I’d really love more off-ball movement/screens for our guys.

The C’s are more talented than the Spurs on paper. We just got outworked by a smarter team. Derozan looked like a lone all star out there and he made all the guys around him look good. My hopes of him getting bought out are pretty much dashed lol

[PAOBoston]

The offense will be fine (for the starters at least). The bench scoring will be an issue.

The biggest issue with this team is defense, not offense.

[Moranis]

Tatum and Brown aren't really off the ball type offensive players and Kemba isn't either.  Pretty much every team through the history of basketball that has that, especially from guards and wings, plays a your turn/my turn type offense because quite simply it is about the only way you can get players into their best spots for success.  I'd certainly prefer that they just ran the team through Tatum and not other players, but that doesn't effectively use Brown and Walker, so I get trying to force the issue to them some of the time.