Trade Irving for the sake of the team

[Green-18]

Where did D.O.S. go with his Small Sample Size monster meme? Because we could sure use that about now.

Are people literally already forgetting the monster 40/10 Christmas game where Kyrie virtually singlehandedly won us the game?? In today’s game, you don’t win championships without a player of Kyrie’s caliber, and right now we don’t have anyone else near that level of player.

you are mainly "starstruck" and is unable to see that.... Hayward can't get his game going (because he is more than a spot up shooter), same for Brown, Rozier, Tatum in some ways...

Maybe the reason Kyrie single handedly won us that game is because he was the guy that put the team in that situation in the first place.....the team synergy plain out stinks with him on the floor. And I can't believe my eyes but he is as bad on the defensive end as IT4. Maybe even worst.... just no 2nd effort. No rebounds, no steals, no in your face defense.....  like I have said many times, PG defense is the first line of defense. Once that is weak/breaks down..... the rest of the team has to compensate

The recipe to properly build a team around a PG like Irving is to have a player like a Williams on C (to bail out Kyrie),  Horford at PF (3 and D),  Ariza at SF (3 and D),  Beal at SG (3 and D).....  Let Irving basically do whatever he wants on the offensive end

The recipe to properly build a team around CBS/Hayward is this current roster without Irving/Rondo type excessive ball handling/ball holders and substitute with Murray, Hield, Beal who are system guards

I for one think it's an idea worth considering.  You're likely to encounter a lot of pushback from the army of posters that are allowed to openly troll any outside the box thinking on this site - but bullies exist everywhere.

I've been under the impression that the Celtics desperately need a legit second ball handler who can penetrate and pass, but your point that Kyrie doesn't improve the play of his teammates is probably valid since we've seen them all play better without his presence.

This idea sounds like an emulation of the Houston Rockets from last season, which is great in theory.  The problem is that Harden runs out of gas in every postseason.  The CP3 injury was also a huge blow, but you could argue that 40+ high usage minutes every night contributed to the hamstring injury.  Houston came VERY close to pulling off an upset.  However, we can't ignore the fact that the Warriors barely showed up in many of these games.  Houston wanted to win that series way more than the Warriors.  Unfortunately their entire team was gassed in game 7.

A team full of stars who play team basketball is much more sustainable for the long term. 

[Birdman]

Does seem odd that this team plays better with Irving out thou he is a top 15 player

[Jvalin]

Wouldn't be against trading Kyrie as long as we get fair value for him. Problem is, we have almost zero leverage in trade talks cause he is about to hit free agency. To put it another way, it's practically impossible for the C's to get fair value for him.

No way would I trade Kyrie ''for multiple 1sts and Jamal Murray or Gary Harris or Buddy Hield or Dennis Smith Jr''. He's way more valuable than that. I would however trade him in a 3-way for Davis. Chances are that New Orleans wouldn't feel confident about re-signing him next summer, hence we'd have to find a 3rd team willing to take that risk. Don't think it's likely to happen, just saying.

Here are some other young players I'd be willing to trade Kyrie for (again, never gonna happen, just what I consider to be good value for Kyrie)

Giannis
KAT
Jokic
Doncic
Simmons + other asset(s) (I know people are gonna hate this, but I'm really high on Simmons)
most likely Embiid (although his injury history scares me)
possibly Booker (probably not though)

I'd also trade him for veteran stars like Kawhi (assuming he'd re-sign with the C's), KD, Steph and a few more.

Obviously, none of these guys is available. So basically, I wouldn't trade Kyrie.

[CelticsPoetry]

Where did D.O.S. go with his Small Sample Size monster meme? Because we could sure use that about now.

Are people literally already forgetting the monster 40/10 Christmas game where Kyrie virtually singlehandedly won us the game?? In today’s game, you don’t win championships without a player of Kyrie’s caliber, and right now we don’t have anyone else near that level of player.

you are mainly "starstruck" and is unable to see that.... Hayward can't get his game going (because he is more than a spot up shooter), same for Brown, Rozier, Tatum in some ways...

Maybe the reason Kyrie single handedly won us that game is because he was the guy that put the team in that situation in the first place.....the team synergy plain out stinks with him on the floor. And I can't believe my eyes but he is as bad on the defensive end as IT4. Maybe even worst.... just no 2nd effort. No rebounds, no steals, no in your face defense.....  like I have said many times, PG defense is the first line of defense. Once that is weak/breaks down..... the rest of the team has to compensate

The recipe to properly build a team around a PG like Irving is to have a player like a Williams on C (to bail out Kyrie),  Horford at PF (3 and D),  Ariza at SF (3 and D),  Beal at SG (3 and D).....  Let Irving basically do whatever he wants on the offensive end

The recipe to properly build a team around CBS/Hayward is this current roster without Irving/Rondo type excessive ball handling/ball holders and substitute with Murray, Hield, Beal who are system guards

I wonder if you've been watching the same games as me. While I agree that the effort is not there 100% of the time, he has gotten a lot better in that regard. In some games, he will be the only guy crashing the offensive glass (even getting a crucial one late against the Sixers, if I recall correctly). He also draws charges quite frequently, dives for loose balls and gets a lot of steals. I've seen him play lockdown defense for short stretches. There is no way you can compare him to IT, who couldn't play defense even if he wanted too (physical limitations). Your bias is showing.

[fingerlakes]

Deleted

[Tr1boy]

Where did D.O.S. go with his Small Sample Size monster meme? Because we could sure use that about now.

Are people literally already forgetting the monster 40/10 Christmas game where Kyrie virtually singlehandedly won us the game?? In today’s game, you don’t win championships without a player of Kyrie’s caliber, and right now we don’t have anyone else near that level of player.

you are mainly "starstruck" and is unable to see that.... Hayward can't get his game going (because he is more than a spot up shooter), same for Brown, Rozier, Tatum in some ways...

Maybe the reason Kyrie single handedly won us that game is because he was the guy that put the team in that situation in the first place.....the team synergy plain out stinks with him on the floor. And I can't believe my eyes but he is as bad on the defensive end as IT4. Maybe even worst.... just no 2nd effort. No rebounds, no steals, no in your face defense.....  like I have said many times, PG defense is the first line of defense. Once that is weak/breaks down..... the rest of the team has to compensate

The recipe to properly build a team around a PG like Irving is to have a player like a Williams on C (to bail out Kyrie),  Horford at PF (3 and D),  Ariza at SF (3 and D),  Beal at SG (3 and D).....  Let Irving basically do whatever he wants on the offensive end

The recipe to properly build a team around CBS/Hayward is this current roster without Irving/Rondo type excessive ball handling/ball holders and substitute with Murray, Hield, Beal who are system guards

I for one think it's an idea worth considering.  You're likely to encounter a lot of pushback from the army of posters that are allowed to openly troll any outside the box thinking on this site - but bullies exist everywhere.

I've been under the impression that the Celtics desperately need a legit second ball handler who can penetrate and pass, but your point that Kyrie doesn't improve the play of his teammates is probably valid since we've seen them all play better without his presence.

It was apparent during the 2nd half or 2nd half last season/playoffs

More number of guys play better/natural

Also more involved/engaged in team passing, defense and late in games situation

[gouki88]

Where did D.O.S. go with his Small Sample Size monster meme? Because we could sure use that about now.

Are people literally already forgetting the monster 40/10 Christmas game where Kyrie virtually singlehandedly won us the game?? In today’s game, you don’t win championships without a player of Kyrie’s caliber, and right now we don’t have anyone else near that level of player.

you are mainly "starstruck" and is unable to see that.... Hayward can't get his game going (because he is more than a spot up shooter), same for Brown, Rozier, Tatum in some ways...

Maybe the reason Kyrie single handedly won us that game is because he was the guy that put the team in that situation in the first place.....the team synergy plain out stinks with him on the floor. And I can't believe my eyes but he is as bad on the defensive end as IT4. Maybe even worst.... just no 2nd effort. No rebounds, no steals, no in your face defense.....  like I have said many times, PG defense is the first line of defense. Once that is weak/breaks down..... the rest of the team has to compensate

The recipe to properly build a team around a PG like Irving is to have a player like a Williams on C (to bail out Kyrie),  Horford at PF (3 and D),  Ariza at SF (3 and D),  Beal at SG (3 and D).....  Let Irving basically do whatever he wants on the offensive end

The recipe to properly build a team around CBS/Hayward is this current roster without Irving/Rondo type excessive ball handling/ball holders and substitute with Murray, Hield, Beal who are system guards

I wonder if you've been watching the same games as me. While I agree that the effort is not there 100% of the time, he has gotten a lot better in that regard. In some games, he will be the only guy crashing the offensive glass (even getting a crucial one late against the Sixers, if I recall correctly). He also draws charges quite frequently, dives for loose balls and gets a lot of steals. I've seen him play lockdown defense for short stretches. There is no way you can compare him to IT, who couldn't play defense even if he wanted too (physical limitations). Your bias is showing.

You're definitely right, TP. Triboy is just being incredibly biased. To even compare Irving this year to IT defensively is laughable. The numbers are right there if he was willing to look. Everything from defensive win shares to steal % and block % are on track to be career highs.

Not only this, but the other areas of his game are improving. He averages more passes per game than guys like Doncic, Dragic, Lonzo, Oladipo and Rondo, and he's the tied league leader in secondary assists. So the whole 'he doesn't pass' thing is just nonsense really. Not only that, but his assist % is the second highest of his career so far, and his usage rate is his lowest since he was 23.
Additionally, his rebounding % is easily a career high.

[Tr1boy]

Where did D.O.S. go with his Small Sample Size monster meme? Because we could sure use that about now.

Are people literally already forgetting the monster 40/10 Christmas game where Kyrie virtually singlehandedly won us the game?? In today’s game, you don’t win championships without a player of Kyrie’s caliber, and right now we don’t have anyone else near that level of player.

you are mainly "starstruck" and is unable to see that.... Hayward can't get his game going (because he is more than a spot up shooter), same for Brown, Rozier, Tatum in some ways...

Maybe the reason Kyrie single handedly won us that game is because he was the guy that put the team in that situation in the first place.....the team synergy plain out stinks with him on the floor. And I can't believe my eyes but he is as bad on the defensive end as IT4. Maybe even worst.... just no 2nd effort. No rebounds, no steals, no in your face defense.....  like I have said many times, PG defense is the first line of defense. Once that is weak/breaks down..... the rest of the team has to compensate

The recipe to properly build a team around a PG like Irving is to have a player like a Williams on C (to bail out Kyrie),  Horford at PF (3 and D),  Ariza at SF (3 and D),  Beal at SG (3 and D).....  Let Irving basically do whatever he wants on the offensive end

The recipe to properly build a team around CBS/Hayward is this current roster without Irving/Rondo type excessive ball handling/ball holders and substitute with Murray, Hield, Beal who are system guards

I wonder if you've been watching the same games as me. While I agree that the effort is not there 100% of the time, he has gotten a lot better in that regard. In some games, he will be the only guy crashing the offensive glass (even getting a crucial one late against the Sixers, if I recall correctly). He also draws charges quite frequently, dives for loose balls and gets a lot of steals. I've seen him play lockdown defense for short stretches. There is no way you can compare him to IT, who couldn't play defense even if he wanted too (physical limitations). Your bias is showing.

You're definitely right, TP. Triboy is just being incredibly biased. To even compare Irving this year to IT defensively is laughable. The numbers are right there if he was willing to look. Everything from defensive win shares to steal % and block % are on track to be career highs.

Not only this, but the other areas of his game are improving. He averages more passes per game than guys like Doncic, Dragic, Lonzo, Oladipo and Rondo, and he's the tied league leader in secondary assists. So the whole 'he doesn't pass' thing is just nonsense really. Not only that, but his assist % is the second highest of his career so far, and his usage rate is his lowest since he was 23.
Additionally, his rebounding % is easily a career high.

Silly to keep stating his career high

Previous best 3.2 reb, current best 3.7

Career HIGH (over 0.5)

If you state league high that is another thing

Not only does he have problems consistemtly staying in front of his man (walker, booker) for example... he cant really guard any other type of positions. Thats why it makes him weak for this system

Play Williams and he can bail him out (Irving calling for him also)....but once everyone is healthy CBS is not likely to play him over Horford and even Baynes.

Again, another disconnect

[jbpats]

Kyrie has got to go. This team is in desperate need for a pass first PG, we have enough scoring and his constant need to have the ball in his hands just deflates our offense.. well our offense asides from his own. Our team just stands around when Kyrie is in, its ineffective and to me sucks to watch.
I criticized his hero ball after he hit those game winning shots and really got cut down. The key to our success last post season was ball movement, I think we need to find that again and unfortunately with Kyrie on our team it just won't happen.
Imagine Rubio on this team? I think we'd be once again the favorites in the east with a guy like that.

[BringToughnessBack]

Maybe this is why Danny has not traded Terry yet. He is waiting to see how this year plays out and keeping his options wide open.

 I am not a proponent of trading Kyrie though, I do not believe there is anyone on our team that could impact us winning in the playoffs more then him and nobody is ready to step into alpha dog for that playoff time as well. Who would you rather have heaving a shot with the game on the line in the post season? Nobody other then Kyrie for sure.

Then again, not sure the economics but if Danny decides Terry plus Big Free Agent is greater then Kyrie, then so be it.

By not signing Kyrie, isn't our payroll still at 100M? We would need to do a sign and trade for that to occur...cannot see GSW doing a trade for Kyrie with us for Durant...Also, the minute Kyrie would get wind of Danny floating trade ideas out there he bolts...so we need to be very careful before doing anything.

I for one, like the idea of Kyrie in Green for many years to come but also not opposed to a reshuffling if it makes us even better. Just make sure you have a super alpha on our team for the post season though, Tatum/Hayward/Brown are not quite that player yet.

[Chief]

Do you think the Celtics make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie?

[RJ87]

Where did D.O.S. go with his Small Sample Size monster meme? Because we could sure use that about now.

Are people literally already forgetting the monster 40/10 Christmas game where Kyrie virtually singlehandedly won us the game?? In today’s game, you don’t win championships without a player of Kyrie’s caliber, and right now we don’t have anyone else near that level of player.

you are mainly "starstruck" and is unable to see that.... Hayward can't get his game going (because he is more than a spot up shooter), same for Brown, Rozier, Tatum in some ways...

Maybe the reason Kyrie single handedly won us that game is because he was the guy that put the team in that situation in the first place.....the team synergy plain out stinks with him on the floor. And I can't believe my eyes but he is as bad on the defensive end as IT4. Maybe even worst.... just no 2nd effort. No rebounds, no steals, no in your face defense.....  like I have said many times, PG defense is the first line of defense. Once that is weak/breaks down..... the rest of the team has to compensate

The recipe to properly build a team around a PG like Irving is to have a player like a Williams on C (to bail out Kyrie),  Horford at PF (3 and D),  Ariza at SF (3 and D),  Beal at SG (3 and D).....  Let Irving basically do whatever he wants on the offensive end

The recipe to properly build a team around CBS/Hayward is this current roster without Irving/Rondo type excessive ball handling/ball holders and substitute with Murray, Hield, Beal who are system guards

I wonder if you've been watching the same games as me. While I agree that the effort is not there 100% of the time, he has gotten a lot better in that regard. In some games, he will be the only guy crashing the offensive glass (even getting a crucial one late against the Sixers, if I recall correctly). He also draws charges quite frequently, dives for loose balls and gets a lot of steals. I've seen him play lockdown defense for short stretches. There is no way you can compare him to IT, who couldn't play defense even if he wanted too (physical limitations). Your bias is showing.

You're definitely right, TP. Triboy is just being incredibly biased. To even compare Irving this year to IT defensively is laughable. The numbers are right there if he was willing to look. Everything from defensive win shares to steal % and block % are on track to be career highs.

Not only this, but the other areas of his game are improving. He averages more passes per game than guys like Doncic, Dragic, Lonzo, Oladipo and Rondo, and he's the tied league leader in secondary assists. So the whole 'he doesn't pass' thing is just nonsense really. Not only that, but his assist % is the second highest of his career so far, and his usage rate is his lowest since he was 23.
Additionally, his rebounding % is easily a career high.

Silly to keep stating his career high

Previous best 3.2 reb, current best 3.7

Career HIGH (over 0.5)

If you state league high that is another thing

He not only has problems staying in front of his man (walker, booker) for example... he cant guard any other type of players. Thats why it makes him weak for this system

Play Williams and he can bail him out (Irving calling for him also)....but once everyone is healthy CBS is not likely to play him over Horford and even Baynes.

Again, another disconnect

Okay, no I'm convinced you didn't watch the games. Irving played on them some, but they were primarily defended by Marcus Smart.

Also, he's averaging 4.9 rebounds. At least have the stats correct, those are easy enough to look up.

And worth noting: Kyrie is tied 3rd in loose balls recovered in the NBA. He's second on the team in deflections and steals just behind Marcus Smart. He's second on the team for charges drawn. So yes, he does try despite what your "eye test" is telling you.

[Tr1boy]

Do you think the Celtics make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie?

Yes

With an engaged/synergetic Horford, Hayward, Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart

If Celts had a healthy Hayward team would beat the Cavs..... not so sure now if team had only a healthy Kyrie

[Jvalin]

Very interesting topic.  Paul Pierce and Jalen Rose touched on it quite a bit last night and how the ball moves much better when Kyrie is not playing. Many people see it and most of us miss the ball movement we saw during our playoff run last year.  I for one am tired of Kyrie.  He is a prima donna and I am tired of his mouth and his interviews are brutal.  He thinks he is much smarter than he actually is and constantly tries to use big words that don't fit.  I am not a huge Felger fan but I remember him calling Kyrie a dink after his first interview after the trade.  I have to agree with Felger on this one.  When Kyrie said he was sacrificing his for the sake of the team last week and that he can do whatever he wants on the floor was the last straw for me.  The kid is kind of a punk and he cannot do whatever he wants on the floor.  He has lost us more than a few games late forcing up crazy shots and ignoring his teammates.  I so miss the personalities of Pierce and Garnett and I don't think Kyrie possesses the necessary leadership skills to win us a championship.  He quit on Lebron and I do not trust him in signing here even though he said already that he wants to return next season.

Almost impossible for the C's to get fair value for Kyrie because of his contract situation. Unless you want us to trade him for Rubio for crying out loud, like jbpats proposed a few posts above.

All you guys who are in favor of trading Kyrie, why not propose some trade ideas as well? It's one thing to say we should trade him and a whole different thing to come up with a realistic trade scenario.

Kyrie is about to hit free agency. Chances are that most teams wouldn't feel confident about re-signing him next summer, hence we'd have to find a team willing to take that risk (otherwise we'd trade him for pennies on the dollar).

[Silky]

Do you think the Celtics make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie?

I will assume you are asking about this season....and the answer to that is maybe, maybe not.

Team has been a hot mess at times, but IMO no fault of Irvings and instead that issue rests with Terry britches being too big, Brown deciding to revert to Junior Varsity basketball, Gordon being garbage and Horford getting older and continuing to play out of position.