I Thought The Rest of the World Caught Up?

[Amonkey]

worst argument of 2008.

One team had one good player and a few develping ones, and no way to turn the roster over signifcatly at the time.

The other could pick any players they wanted, and sent an all star team, which vastly underpreformed.

This is literaly the poorest analogy ive seen all year

I agree with you.  I started writing, but then I had to go to the beach so I had to finish my rationale a bit prematurely.

Basically, what I was trying to say is that we can't forget the fact that we have lost those past games.  Just like the Celtics won now it doesn't mean that we sucked back then.  USA clearly has more talent than the rest of the world, but the same could be said from those previous years.  The reason USA is winning now is that they are actually playing true TEAM ball.  So if they let up anytime, they can lose.  Team USA is still the clear favorites, but nothing is guaranteed.

Maybe a better analogy is the 2007-08 Patriots (pre Super Bowl).  They were clearly above everyone else in almost every category, but you couldn't say that they're in a complete other league.  I guess that's what I am saying.  The world is like the nonplayoff NFC teams, and USA is the Patriots.  We're better than everybody else, but we're still in the same league where anything can happen (and the only way that we lose if we beat ourselves).

Now I have to go to work.  Sorry about the previous horrible argument 

PS. Blowouts are very common in international games so even though Patriots games might not always end up in blowouts and... nevermind, gotta work!

[crownsy]

worst argument of 2008.

One team had one good player and a few develping ones, and no way to turn the roster over signifcatly at the time.

The other could pick any players they wanted, and sent an all star team, which vastly underpreformed.

This is literaly the poorest analogy ive seen all year

I agree with you.  I started writing, but then I had to go to the beach so I had to finish my rationale a bit prematurely.

Basically, what I was trying to say is that we can't forget the fact that we have lost those past games.  Just like the Celtics won now it doesn't mean that we sucked back then.  USA clearly has more talent than the rest of the world, but the same could be said from those previous years.  The reason USA is winning now is that they are actually playing true TEAM ball.  So if they let up anytime, they can lose.  Team USA is still the clear favorites, but nothing is guaranteed.

Maybe a better analogy is the 2007-08 Patriots (pre Super Bowl).  They were clearly above everyone else in almost every category, but you couldn't say that they're in a complete other league.  I guess that's what I am saying.  The world is like the nonplayoff NFC teams, and USA is the Patriots.  We're better than everybody else, but we're still in the same league where anything can happen (and the only way that we lose if we beat ourselves).

Now I have to go to work.  Sorry about the previous horrible argument 

PS. Blowouts are very common in international games so even though Patriots games might not always end up in blowouts and... nevermind, gotta work!

while i would argue that we did in fact suck back then, I see where your coming from now, TP4U for explaining . If they lose focus, then any team is vunerable in the medal round of course.

I think this team will stay focused however, and if they do, then they should walk into the gold medal.

[jdub1660]

The world has not caught up yet. The idea of the Olympics...isn't it suppose to be the best of each countries players against each other? The US hasn't always done that, causing us to look as if we were behind. But we're not. When we put together our dream team of allstars, AND keep them together for 2-3 years at a time, then we have dominance. Other countries look close to beating us b/c they have chemistry. Some of these teams, like Greece and Argentina, have been together for years. Matter of fact, alot of International players play in their respective countries for a while, one young guy from their team comes to the NBA early, thrives here, and then members of that team bleed over to the NBA. Ginobli came first, and then followed Noicioni, Oberto, etc. The US still dominates the basketball game, and as for rule changing...I hate all that except the goal-tending rule. The rule here is too sensitive, with the decline of the ball, a block at this point is goal tending, anything off of the backboard is goal tending. If I'm not mistaken Int. rules have goal tending has a block of the ball after it's bounced on the rim. As long as players don't stick their arms through the rim and knock the ball out, then I'm all for inheriting the Int. ruling of goal tending.

[PointGaurd]

NO WAY HAS THE REST OF THE WORLD CAUGHT UP!!  THAT IS SILLY!!!
If every player actualyl played we could make 4-5 Qualifying teams and would battle ourselves for GOLD, SILVER, BRONZE, and runner up!!!  I could make a GOLD caliber team from the people who decided not to go alone!!  This is foolishness!! Which the rest of the world has gotten noticebly better, they are not on par with the level of commitment and Athletes that we have here in the U.S.   But it's not to say we're better atheletically, we are just the founders of the sport, and had years to progress.  So in all fairness, while areas like China are basically babies to the sport they have made large leaps in progession.  The Argentinians, Spainish, Greek, Germans and others are all very good and respectable teams.  But IMHO, if we placed just teams from the NBA that aren't top tier they could bring home a gold medal.

[iowa plowboy]

The Celtics didn't suck two years ago.  It's just because they didnt send their best players and coaches.  Now we see how good the Celtics really were when you send the best players that play well together and are trying.

That's basically what these arguments sound like.

worst argument of 2008.

One team had one good player and a few develping ones, and no way to turn the roster over signifcatly at the time.
The other could pick any players they wanted, and sent an all star team, which vastly underpreformed.
This is literaly the poorest analogy ive seen all year.

And the one good player and the few developing ones were held out and therefore the team vastly underperformed....by design.  

The other team is risking the health of it's best draws and therefore the welfare of the league to play in a glorified pickup game in the name of   patroitism.  

Snore.  I hope everybody comes home healthy and that playing in this meaningless tournament doesn't affect the NBA player's health later in the NBA season.  

A look at the league's demographics tell anybody that the rest of the world is catching up.  This tournament tells us nothing....Just like the last few where we lost told us nothing.  If there's enough money, the officials will take it away from the US even if they deserve to win....It's the way of the olympics and always has been.
 


 

[Celtic]

The world is so far from catching the USA in basketball. There are only 2 players at the olympics that would have a chnace of making the US squad, Yao and Dirk, don't say Gasol or Ginobili both are good for their teams but aren't close to a USA talent level. Everyone got all excited when the USA lost, when they sent the wrong team and the wrong coach, and suddenly the rest of the world is so much better, but now when the US is killing teams everyone is stepping back and saying well look at their all star team. The world can not compete with the US in any way, and the rule changes are ridiculous, it's an American sport the games should be played by the real rules, and get some real refs while your at it, these guy have zero understanding of the game of basketball.

Team USA is sending a message and punishing anyone crazy enough to get on the court with them, now that they have gelled even more, I expect even bigger blowouts to come.

Not to nitpick or anything...
But isn't basketball a
CANADIAN invention?

I think it's good to see the
American players finally owning
up to their potential. I've kind
of missed that approach since '92.
Team first, "me" second. Kind of
like our beloved Celtics.
I like it.

While James Naismith was born in Canada, the sport was invented at the Y in Springfield Mass in the US, so in doing so the sport was developed by Americans as they played it, and lets be real the sport flourished in the USA while the rest of the world either didn't know about it, or was uninterested.

[incoherent]

Defense wins championships.  Defense wins gold medals.

[jackson_34]

NO WAY HAS THE REST OF THE WORLD CAUGHT UP!!  THAT IS SILLY!!!
If every player actualyl played we could make 4-5 Qualifying teams and would battle ourselves for GOLD, SILVER, BRONZE, and runner up!!!  I could make a GOLD caliber team from the people who decided not to go alone!!  This is foolishness!! Which the rest of the world has gotten noticebly better, they are not on par with the level of commitment and Athletes that we have here in the U.S. 

That's just plain ignorant to international players. Without a doubt the US team has made a focused effort these olympic games, but that was due to the fact they lacked this in all the major tournaments from athens onwards, players not commited to international play. If they showed the commitment of these olympics in the past tournaments, they would have placed 1st everytime.

if we placed just teams from the NBA that aren't top tier they could bring home a gold medal.

Put an NBA team against a solid national team and they would get slaughtered.
 

[Amonkey]

But IMHO, if we placed just teams from the NBA that aren't top tier they could bring home a gold medal.

Not really since 3-4 players on that team would be foreigners so it would be hard to have a full squad.

[kw10]

I hope this post don't get taken the wrong way or offend anyone in anyway.

But what some of you (I mean you as in the general public and some athletes prior to this year) are saying and the mentality of yours is exactly why the USA team hasn't won gold in Worlds or Olympic recently, the fact that they are superior players and athletes and will win because of that, thinking the game has already been won before tipoff is not how you do it. At the end of the day, it comes down to the 40 minutes and who's the better team on the day.

[ACF]

I hope this post don't get taken the wrong way or offend anyone in anyway.

But what some of you (I mean you as in the general public and some athletes prior to this year) are saying and the mentality of yours is exactly why the USA team hasn't won gold in Worlds or Olympic recently, the fact that they are superior players and athletes and will win because of that, thinking the game has already been won before tipoff is not how you do it. At the end of the day, it comes down to the 40 minutes and who's the better team on the day.

That's a TP.

[ACF]

The world is so far from catching the USA in basketball. There are only 2 players at the olympics that would have a chnace of making the US squad, Yao and Dirk, don't say Gasol or Ginobili both are good for their teams but aren't close to a USA talent level. Everyone got all excited when the USA lost, when they sent the wrong team and the wrong coach, and suddenly the rest of the world is so much better, but now when the US is killing teams everyone is stepping back and saying well look at their all star team. The world can not compete with the US in any way, and the rule changes are ridiculous, it's an American sport the games should be played by the real rules, and get some real refs while your at it, these guy have zero understanding of the game of basketball.

Team USA is sending a message and punishing anyone crazy enough to get on the court with them, now that they have gelled even more, I expect even bigger blowouts to come.

Not to nitpick or anything...
But isn't basketball a
CANADIAN invention?

I think it's good to see the
American players finally owning
up to their potential. I've kind
of missed that approach since '92.
Team first, "me" second. Kind of
like our beloved Celtics.
I like it.

While James Naismith was born in Canada, the sport was invented at the Y in Springfield Mass in the US, so in doing so the sport was developed by Americans as they played it, and lets be real the sport flourished in the USA while the rest of the world either didn't know about it, or was uninterested.

I'm sorry, but what's the point in
saying it was developed in the US?
More or less a coincidence, isn't it?
Naismith may as well have been in any
country in the world and maybe that country
would be the best today. It's all speculation.
I think there's a reason so many big countries
dominate the fields in ANY sport. It's quite
simple, actually. There are so many good players
to choose from and thus, the competition is
much greater. That's one of the reasons Denmark
will always suck at basketball 

I agree with you that maybe the world
didn't know or didn't care.

Also, I think we can agree that Team USA have
finally gone back to that which ensured
their utter dominance at previous Olympics.
Namely team basketball, which is great to
see because that is what the game is about.

[cordobes]

Here's what I said when the roster was announced:

I predict this team to win every game with a +30 point margin if they play team basketball and defense

http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20327.45

I think the OP is using a straw man, because nobody said the world has caught up in that sense. The difference is that a couple of decades ago, the US could sent college players and still win comfortably. Currently, they wouldn't even qualify for the games. Even a team of top NBA players can be beaten, as has been proved in the past, if they don't take the games seriously and play team-basketball, as ACF and kw10 say.

As for the world catching up in terms of top talent, I don't think that's going to happen in a foreseeable future. The pool is much wider in the US. Basketball is just not that popular outside the US, people just don't play the game or care about it. On the top of that, demography is destiny: Lithuania is probably the only European country where basketball reaches the same level of popularity it has in the US. But Lithuania has less population than the Boston metro area (it's awesome how they manage to build a team who fights for medals and have so many good players, they do an amazing job developing their young players).

[cordobes]

So as americans can we change the rules of soccer for the MLS to take better advantage of our players (enter what ever attribute you wold like) then have italy, brazil, england etc..have to play the world cup on a field that is 90% as big with a trapazoid goal box and an offsides rule that is slightly adjusted?

Well, of course you can. International governing bodies, be it FIBA or FIFA, have procedures to change the set of rules that are applicable to international competitions. But, case in point, it wasn't FIBA who changed the rules to give international teams an advantage in the Olympics. In fact, FIBA rules are closer to the original rules of basketball. It has been the NBA who has been changing the rules, especially in order to boost scoring. The NBA doesn't own the game, so I don't think it has the authority to dictate the rules. Anyway, this will become a moot point, because many FIBA rules, particularly court marks, are going to be closer to those of the NBA.

Personally, I think many of the NBA rules are even contrary to the spirit of the game and have done more harm than good. Others simply make sense in a league with lots of talent, but not so much in international domestic leagues. But I guess that's an issue to another thread.