Truehoop Article on Fouling In The NBA (and how it relates to Rondo)

[zimbo]

lol, it's obvious some people read the title only and not the article.

[aporel#18]

lol, it's obvious some people read the title only and not the article.

Well, I won't blame them for that. I think a part of me died just reading that Abbott's garbage 

[connor]

lol, it's obvious some people read the title only and not the article.

I read the entire article and it was still horrible.

The problem with Abbott's reasoning is that he is ignoring the fact that there is a penalty for those fouls, its called a flagrant foul. The flagrant foul is a much more severe penalty and is given out in instances like the ones he highlights where there isn't a basketball play being made and it endangers the individuals involved. What would he prefer instead? Ejections? Points deducted? What?

This is just an overreaction article to LBJ taking a couple hard hits in recent weeks. It ignores the fact that the game has been played this way for years, so criticizing the physicality of that type of play is stupid because thats how everyone learned to play the game. It ignores the fact that LBJ and the like are making equally vicious drives into players on offense that aren't basketball moves, that go uncalled or called as defensive fouls when really its the offensive player initiating all the contact. It ignores the way much larger players like Dwight Howard and Shaq have been defended for years that is deemed acceptable simply because they are much larger individuals

I understand his point about what would fans rather see a dunk or a tackle. But how do you suggest we outlaw it? Furthermore what should defensive players do? Just let Lebron take an and1 and give up points or finish the play and make him earn them?

The game has moved away from the physical play of the 80/90s but that doesn't mean its going to leave the game entirely. I like the physical play. I like the hard fouls. I want to see them. I don't want every NBA game to turn into an All-Star weekend style game where no one steps up on defense because everything is considered a foul.

[sofutomygaha]

lol, it's obvious some people read the title only and not the article.

I read the entire article and it was still horrible.

The problem with Abbott's reasoning is that he is ignoring the fact that there is a penalty for those fouls, its called a flagrant foul. The flagrant foul is a much more severe penalty and is given out in instances like the ones he highlights where there isn't a basketball play being made and it endangers the individuals involved. What would he prefer instead? Ejections? Points deducted? What?

This is just an overreaction article to LBJ taking a couple hard hits in recent weeks. It ignores the fact that the game has been played this way for years, so criticizing the physicality of that type of play is stupid because thats how everyone learned to play the game. It ignores the fact that LBJ and the like are making equally vicious drives into players on offense that aren't basketball moves, that go uncalled or called as defensive fouls when really its the offensive player initiating all the contact. It ignores the way much larger players like Dwight Howard and Shaq have been defended for years that is deemed acceptable simply because they are much larger individuals

I understand his point about what would fans rather see a dunk or a tackle. But how do you suggest we outlaw it? Furthermore what should defensive players do? Just let Lebron take an and1 and give up points or finish the play and make him earn them?

The game has moved away from the physical play of the 80/90s but that doesn't mean its going to leave the game entirely. I like the physical play. I like the hard fouls. I want to see them. I don't want every NBA game to turn into an All-Star weekend style game where no one steps up on defense because everything is considered a foul.

You make a very good point. Part of the reason that defenses play this way is that big strong wings like Lebron James and Paul Pierce often don't drive to score, they drive to create contact and get the and-1. The play where Heinrich tackled Lebron was indeed, as another poster pointed out, a play where Lebron saw that Heinrich was (1) on his heels and (2) much smaller and weaker than him. Lebron's move there is to bull-rush Heinrich and go for the three point play, not to easily side-step him or spot up for the two.

I still think that Abbott's point, and the greater point about the economy of fouling, is provocative. Basketball is at its least enjoyable (and its most dangerous) in situations where it is strategically advantageous to foul or attempt to draw a foul instead of making a good play. The winners are the players who can casually dish and receive such punishment, on both sides of the ball. The losers are the crafty guys who weigh in under two bills.

[KGs Knee]

First off, this thread is like an ESPN article if I ever saw one.  The thread title is intentionally incendiary and divisive, while having a tenuous at best relation to the actual article. Highly ironic.

As for the article, I found it to be a complete hack-job.  Whatever, I expect no less from ESPN and it's staff of LeBron groupies.

Personally, I have no desire to see the NBA turned into an even more wussified sport.  The article talks about how the NBA fears any resemblance of the style of basketball played by the Pistons/Knicks of the 80's/90's.  I want that style back.

The NBA is meant to be dominated by big men, not 6'1" PG's who want to play no-touch, wimpy basketball.  The fact the NBA has changed the rules as much as it already has, allowing the small guy to take over, sickens me.  Screw the little guy, I want to see 7 foot behemoths battling it out in the paint.  If a little guy can thrive in that environment, then more power to that player, and respect due.

[sofutomygaha]

First off, this thread is like an ESPN article if I ever saw one.  The thread title is intentionally incendiary and divisive, while having a tenuous at best relation to the actual article. Highly ironic.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be so obtuse. Mods, if you have the chance could you please change the thread title to:
NBA BAD HURT FOUL -> OUCH CAREFUL RONDO NO SCORE

[fairweatherfan]

First off, this thread is like an ESPN article if I ever saw one.  The thread title is intentionally incendiary and divisive, while having a tenuous at best relation to the actual article. Highly ironic.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be so obtuse. Mods, if you have the chance could you please change the thread title to:
NBA BAD HURT FOUL -> OUCH CAREFUL RONDO NO SCORE

You can change it yourself - I just did it here for you 


EDIT:  Hahaha TP, the latest topics just got much, much funnier.

[sofutomygaha]

First off, this thread is like an ESPN article if I ever saw one.  The thread title is intentionally incendiary and divisive, while having a tenuous at best relation to the actual article. Highly ironic.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be so obtuse. Mods, if you have the chance could you please change the thread title to:
NBA BAD HURT FOUL -> OUCH CAREFUL RONDO NO SCORE

You can change it yourself - I just did it here for you 

lol. Big fat tommy point, sir.

[fairweatherfan]

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm just a simple caveman.  Twenty thousand years ago I fell chasing a mastodon and was frozen in some ice, until I was thawed out by some of your scientists.  Your world confuses and frightens me!  When I'm sitting on my calfskin couch sipping an 18-year single malt and watching "Mad Men", I wonder - how did those tiny men get into such a thin little box?  What kind of sorcery trapped them there?  I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.

But if there's one thing I do know, it's that NBA BAD HURT FOUL -> OUCH CAREFUL RONDO NO SCORE.

[connor]

lol, it's obvious some people read the title only and not the article.

I read the entire article and it was still horrible.

The problem with Abbott's reasoning is that he is ignoring the fact that there is a penalty for those fouls, its called a flagrant foul. The flagrant foul is a much more severe penalty and is given out in instances like the ones he highlights where there isn't a basketball play being made and it endangers the individuals involved. What would he prefer instead? Ejections? Points deducted? What?

This is just an overreaction article to LBJ taking a couple hard hits in recent weeks. It ignores the fact that the game has been played this way for years, so criticizing the physicality of that type of play is stupid because thats how everyone learned to play the game. It ignores the fact that LBJ and the like are making equally vicious drives into players on offense that aren't basketball moves, that go uncalled or called as defensive fouls when really its the offensive player initiating all the contact. It ignores the way much larger players like Dwight Howard and Shaq have been defended for years that is deemed acceptable simply because they are much larger individuals

I understand his point about what would fans rather see a dunk or a tackle. But how do you suggest we outlaw it? Furthermore what should defensive players do? Just let Lebron take an and1 and give up points or finish the play and make him earn them?

The game has moved away from the physical play of the 80/90s but that doesn't mean its going to leave the game entirely. I like the physical play. I like the hard fouls. I want to see them. I don't want every NBA game to turn into an All-Star weekend style game where no one steps up on defense because everything is considered a foul.

You make a very good point. Part of the reason that defenses play this way is that big strong wings like Lebron James and Paul Pierce often don't drive to score, they drive to create contact and get the and-1. The play where Heinrich tackled Lebron was indeed, as another poster pointed out, a play where Lebron saw that Heinrich was (1) on his heels and (2) much smaller and weaker than him. Lebron's move there is to bull-rush Heinrich and go for the three point play, not to easily side-step him or spot up for the two.

I still think that Abbott's point, and the greater point about the economy of fouling, is provocative. Basketball is at its least enjoyable (and its most dangerous) in situations where it is strategically advantageous to foul or attempt to draw a foul instead of making a good play. The winners are the players who can casually dish and receive such punishment, on both sides of the ball. The losers are the crafty guys who weigh in under two bills.

I do see where he is coming from with the economy of fouling and I agree that when a game devolves into a fouling match rather than actual play its not enjoyable, but I just don't see how in the world you would expect to regulate it without pretty much removing all physical play from the game.

Flagrant fouls are there to protect players from excessively aggressive fouls and even eject them if necessary. I don't see how you can legislate it much better than that. And if he isn't arguing that the rules should be changed then what is he doing? Whining because some stars have taken extra hard shots? Come on, thats just pathetic for an NBA analyst.

[Lucky17]

Man, I miss Phil Hartman. TP awarded.

[sed522002]

Much better title 

[CelticConcourse]

I really liked the video... 'twas enlightening

[Fafnir]

Now Royce Webb enters the fray by proving that if he has a sock puppet he wrote himself he still can't make a convincing "argument" on this.

Plus he never addresses that any sort of rule that "eliminates intentional" fouls will immediately remove how exciting athletes like Bradley, Green, Ibaka, Sanders, Howard, LBJ, Wade, etc. try to block shots. Because when on of those players doesn't get the block, they often whack the heck out of the player on the arm or head.

[Onslaught]

Funny, I liked the Knicks way of playing ball in the 90's. And I wish we had a team in the NBA now with big thugs to put the Heat on the floor with hard fouls.

But the NBA wants dunks.