BBD / Is Big Baby being showcased (merged)

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

No.

We should be looking to trade Leon imo, maybe we could get something for him

[Roy Hobbs]

I agree with EJ.  If BBD is getting showcased, it's the most ineffective showcase of all time.  I'm constantly reading on here how BBD helps the team, and I simply don't see it this season.

As Rida alluded to, 65% of his shots are jumpers, and he's shooting 29.9% on them.  BBD is averaging a terrible 6.5 rebounds per 36 minutes (by far the worst of the four bigs in the rotation), and the only guys on the team with a worse PER are Scal and Walker.

Also, while people always laud Baby for working hard, I disagree.  The only time I saw Baby work hard is when he shed 60 pounds prior to draft workouts, to improve his draft position.  Since then, he's put much of that weight back on.  I remember reading a story last season saying that the first thing the Celts did after signing P.J. was assign him to BBD as a full-time mentor, in part to get him working hard.  BBD might show a lot of hustle on the court, but I'm seeing no signs that he has a work ethic off the court.

The team should have signed Mutumbo.  BBD isn't the problem with this team, but he's a piece that should have been upgraded.  If Danny is smart, he'll let him walk in the off-season if he's offered anything more than a minimum deal by another team.

[nickagneta]

I agree with EJ.  If BBD is getting showcased, it's the most ineffective showcase of all time.  I'm constantly reading on here how BBD helps the team, and I simply don't see it this season.

As Rida alluded to, 65% of his shots are jumpers, and he's shooting 29.9% on them.  BBD is averaging a terrible 6.5 rebounds per 36 minutes (by far the worst of the four bigs in the rotation), and the only guys on the team with a worse PER are Scal and Walker.

Also, while people always laud Baby for working hard, I disagree.  The only time I saw Baby work hard is when he shed 60 pounds prior to draft workouts, to improve his draft position.  Since then, he's put much of that weight back on.  I remember reading a story last season saying that the first thing the Celts did after signing P.J. was assign him to BBD as a full-time mentor, in part to get him working hard.  BBD might show a lot of hustle on the court, but I'm seeing no signs that he has a work ethic off the court.

The team should have signed Mutumbo.  BBD isn't the problem with this team, but he's a piece that should have been upgraded.  If Danny is smart, he'll let him walk in the off-season if he's offered anything more than a minimum deal by another team.

If Danny was smart he would never had resigned Tony Allen and Eddie House. Danny falls in love with certain players sometimes and won't let go of them. I think Baby might be one of those players.

[Roy Hobbs]

I agree with EJ.  If BBD is getting showcased, it's the most ineffective showcase of all time.  I'm constantly reading on here how BBD helps the team, and I simply don't see it this season.

As Rida alluded to, 65% of his shots are jumpers, and he's shooting 29.9% on them.  BBD is averaging a terrible 6.5 rebounds per 36 minutes (by far the worst of the four bigs in the rotation), and the only guys on the team with a worse PER are Scal and Walker.

Also, while people always laud Baby for working hard, I disagree.  The only time I saw Baby work hard is when he shed 60 pounds prior to draft workouts, to improve his draft position.  Since then, he's put much of that weight back on.  I remember reading a story last season saying that the first thing the Celts did after signing P.J. was assign him to BBD as a full-time mentor, in part to get him working hard.  BBD might show a lot of hustle on the court, but I'm seeing no signs that he has a work ethic off the court.

The team should have signed Mutumbo.  BBD isn't the problem with this team, but he's a piece that should have been upgraded.  If Danny is smart, he'll let him walk in the off-season if he's offered anything more than a minimum deal by another team.

If Danny was smart he would never had resigned Tony Allen and Eddie House. Danny falls in love with certain players sometimes and won't let go of them. I think Baby might be one of those players.

Unfortunately, I agree with you.  Danny seems to have a lot of loyalty towards his roster, and sometimes it appears misplaced.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tony Allen wasn't a mistake. It made sense skills-wise, trade asset-wise, and financially.

Even with mistakes that are prone to happen with rookies playing, Tony Allen playing alongside Giddens or Walker would make that unit much better. If both Giddens and Walker pan out, then Tony should be easily tradable with a combination of our players. There's enough skill in our bench with friendly contracts that I find hard to believe that there wouldn't be any takers.

As for Eddie... I would've rolled the dice with Pruitt. That they signed both him and Cassell was a bigger mistake. One of these guys should be traded for an upgrade in some sort of package. Having a real PG running our bench offense will help a ton.

The wrong players have been on the floor for a good portion of the season. As to whom is to blame for this, well who knows. Some weren't on the floor because they were developing elsewhere, which is understandable. Some weren't on the floor because of veteran prefferences, which is understandable. But we have quite a few skilled players that would be nice if they were given a real chance on the court.

The main problem with our bench, in my opinion, is the tempo in which they're playing with and the lack of playmakers.

[housecall]

Visualize for a minute,what bench can you see BBD on or any of our bench roster today?Most benches have upgraded already this season with a better bench or just as good as we have. .I do not see any teams around the league  desparate enough to take a chance on BBD.Most coaches,managers,owners are searching for an upside to a player,something that could possibly help their team.Whats BBD upside?   

[EJPLAYA]

I agree with EJ.  If BBD is getting showcased, it's the most ineffective showcase of all time.  I'm constantly reading on here how BBD helps the team, and I simply don't see it this season.

As Rida alluded to, 65% of his shots are jumpers, and he's shooting 29.9% on them.  BBD is averaging a terrible 6.5 rebounds per 36 minutes (by far the worst of the four bigs in the rotation), and the only guys on the team with a worse PER are Scal and Walker.

Also, while people always laud Baby for working hard, I disagree.  The only time I saw Baby work hard is when he shed 60 pounds prior to draft workouts, to improve his draft position.  Since then, he's put much of that weight back on.  I remember reading a story last season saying that the first thing the Celts did after signing P.J. was assign him to BBD as a full-time mentor, in part to get him working hard.  BBD might show a lot of hustle on the court, but I'm seeing no signs that he has a work ethic off the court.

The team should have signed Mutumbo.  BBD isn't the problem with this team, but he's a piece that should have been upgraded.  If Danny is smart, he'll let him walk in the off-season if he's offered anything more than a minimum deal by another team.

If Danny was smart he would never had resigned Tony Allen and Eddie House. Danny falls in love with certain players sometimes and won't let go of them. I think Baby might be one of those players.

I disagree completely. He was FORCED to resign TA and House after unsuccessfully upgrading the position. He was hoping he'd get a better vet that wanted a great chance at a ring for a small contract and it didn't happen.

I am a big House fan, but he is definitely struggling right now. I blame that on him being forced into playing the point. If he was allowed to play the 2 like he did much of last year he would be a dangerous weapon. He is a streak shooter. No one likes a streak shooter when he isn't on the hot streak. He at least is giving it 100%.

TA on the other hand is undersized to play the role he is being asked to. He isn't the same player that he was before the surgeries athletically, but unfortunately IS the same player he was skill wise. He hasn't done anything to improve his basketball ability and is a dumb player. That's all Danny had available though with the financial restrictions.

BBD on the other hand is definitely a guy who was hungry for a contract out of college, but now is just hungry for another plate of those hot wings.

[winsomme]

I agree with EJ.  If BBD is getting showcased, it's the most ineffective showcase of all time.  I'm constantly reading on here how BBD helps the team, and I simply don't see it this season.

As Rida alluded to, 65% of his shots are jumpers, and he's shooting 29.9% on them.  BBD is averaging a terrible 6.5 rebounds per 36 minutes (by far the worst of the four bigs in the rotation), and the only guys on the team with a worse PER are Scal and Walker.

Also, while people always laud Baby for working hard, I disagree.  The only time I saw Baby work hard is when he shed 60 pounds prior to draft workouts, to improve his draft position.  Since then, he's put much of that weight back on.  I remember reading a story last season saying that the first thing the Celts did after signing P.J. was assign him to BBD as a full-time mentor, in part to get him working hard.  BBD might show a lot of hustle on the court, but I'm seeing no signs that he has a work ethic off the court.

The team should have signed Mutumbo.  BBD isn't the problem with this team, but he's a piece that should have been upgraded.  If Danny is smart, he'll let him walk in the off-season if he's offered anything more than a minimum deal by another team.

If Danny was smart he would never had resigned Tony Allen and Eddie House. Danny falls in love with certain players sometimes and won't let go of them. I think Baby might be one of those players.

I disagree completely. He was FORCED to resign TA and House after unsuccessfully upgrading the position. He was hoping he'd get a better vet that wanted a great chance at a ring for a small contract and it didn't happen.

I am a big House fan, but he is definitely struggling right now. I blame that on him being forced into playing the point. If he was allowed to play the 2 like he did much of last year he would be a dangerous weapon. He is a streak shooter. No one likes a streak shooter when he isn't on the hot streak. He at least is giving it 100%.

i'm pretty sure that Eddie played like 90% of his time at the PG position.

hey, we won a championship with him as our backup PG. that clearly is not the problem.

the problem with Eddie, as it see it, is that without Posey, he isn't getting the same open looks he got last year.

when you have Paul or Ray out there with Eddie and Posey, teams can't cover everybody. there is just too much ground to cover.

and with teams trying to collapse on all our inside stuff, we first and foremost need another shooter. it's on the top of my list anyway.

[EJPLAYA]

I agree with EJ.  If BBD is getting showcased, it's the most ineffective showcase of all time.  I'm constantly reading on here how BBD helps the team, and I simply don't see it this season.

As Rida alluded to, 65% of his shots are jumpers, and he's shooting 29.9% on them.  BBD is averaging a terrible 6.5 rebounds per 36 minutes (by far the worst of the four bigs in the rotation), and the only guys on the team with a worse PER are Scal and Walker.

Also, while people always laud Baby for working hard, I disagree.  The only time I saw Baby work hard is when he shed 60 pounds prior to draft workouts, to improve his draft position.  Since then, he's put much of that weight back on.  I remember reading a story last season saying that the first thing the Celts did after signing P.J. was assign him to BBD as a full-time mentor, in part to get him working hard.  BBD might show a lot of hustle on the court, but I'm seeing no signs that he has a work ethic off the court.

The team should have signed Mutumbo.  BBD isn't the problem with this team, but he's a piece that should have been upgraded.  If Danny is smart, he'll let him walk in the off-season if he's offered anything more than a minimum deal by another team.

If Danny was smart he would never had resigned Tony Allen and Eddie House. Danny falls in love with certain players sometimes and won't let go of them. I think Baby might be one of those players.

I disagree completely. He was FORCED to resign TA and House after unsuccessfully upgrading the position. He was hoping he'd get a better vet that wanted a great chance at a ring for a small contract and it didn't happen.

I am a big House fan, but he is definitely struggling right now. I blame that on him being forced into playing the point. If he was allowed to play the 2 like he did much of last year he would be a dangerous weapon. He is a streak shooter. No one likes a streak shooter when he isn't on the hot streak. He at least is giving it 100%.

i'm pretty sure that Eddie played like 90% of his time at the PG position.

hey, we won a championship with him as our backup PG. that clearly is not the problem.

the problem with Eddie, as it see it, is that without Posey, he isn't getting the same open looks he got last year.

when you have Paul or Ray out there with Eddie and Posey, teams can't cover everybody. there is just too much ground to cover.

and with teams trying to collapse on all our inside stuff, we first and foremost need another shooter. it's on the top of my list anyway.

He did officially in the box score, but last year there were lots of times that PP or Ray or Posey brought the ball up the floor and Eddie went to the open 3. They had the ability to drive and kick to him for an open shot. That isn't happening this year. That combined with him truly bringing the ball up the floor has made it tough on him to get open looks.

[Who]

Leon Powe is turning the ball over almost 50% more than he was last season in slightly increased minutes. You also get no passing from him at all. That limits his ability to be a go-to scorer for the unit. He needs to start playing with more control and make better decisions.

I like the improvement Powe showed in developing his post game .... he just needs to learn how to use those developments to a better effect. He's making too many mistakes right now (this season).

I'd like to see him revert back to being the garbage man that he was last season, and living off the scraps that guys like Paul Pierce fed him. He was more effective doing that.

[cordobes]

In my opinion, BBD is playing because he's been better than Powe. As simple as that.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Visualize for a minute,what bench can you see BBD on or any of our bench roster today?Most benches have upgraded already this season with a better bench or just as good as we havee . .I do not see any teams around the league  desparate enough to take a chance on BBD.Most coaches,managers,owners are searching for an upside to a player,something that could possibly help their team.Whats BBD upside?   

What upside does Leon have? less than BBD imo...as a matter of fact hes peaked

[Bankshot]

In my opinion, BBD is playing because he's been better than Powe. As simple as that.

Agreed.  Better defender, better passer, has a jumpshot , better free throw shooter.  He's also was able to pick up the rotations as a rookie (higher BBIQ?), something Powe still struggles with at times.

I understand Baby shoots the jumper at a low percentage, but he's shooting it much better lately.  It drove me crazy earlier in the season, but Doc wanted him taking it and it is finally paying off for him. His jumper will be a huge help in the playoffs if he's still on the team by then. I'm glad the kid is working hard on his game. What has Powe done to improve his game?  Not much.  In fact, I think he's regressed a bit.  Hopefully he and the rest of the team gets their game together soon.

[expobear]

The problem here is that Powe is completely overrated here. Both or one of them needs to get traded for better players. It doesn't matter to me which one goes, but one has to go. As hard as Powe plays, I really hate his game. Baby's game I like... he simply hasn't gotten the results, so he's not good at the moment.

I hope it's Powe.  He would do better elsewhere under a different coach.  

Right now, Rivers doesn't trust his bench. Last night, Powe turns the ball over down low and he gets taken out immediately.  Same thing appeared to have happened with Davis in the second half.  It's a long season.....you have to develop trust in the people coming off the bench.  Pulling guys for making a mistake is not the best way to develop that trust, to make bench players better and to have the team play better as a whole.  

The thing the Celtics miss most about Posey is that Rivers was not afraid to play him 30 minutes a game, if necessary, which took some pressure of the starters and stabilized the bench. Rivers trusted Posey and played him like a starter.  Now, Posey's minutes (25 per game) are being spread out amongst the starters and basically the same bench as last year's minus Posey.  

I don't follow the Celtics as closely as most all on this board but it seems to me that those coming off the bench get their token minutes just to rest the starters. If somebody off the bench is playing well, that person, for the most part, will get his allotted time before the starter he replaced comes back in.  If a player off the bench is hot or playing well, run with it.  The Celtics are as strong as anybody in their starting 5.  But Rivers needs to develop a 6th man he can rely if the Celtics are going to repeat.

 

[Roy Hobbs]

In my opinion, BBD is playing because he's been better than Powe. As simple as that.

He certainly hasn't been better scoring, rebounding, shooting, or creating contact.  Also, opposing players are shooting a significantly lower percentage against Powe than they are against Baby.