Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)

[jambr380]

Maybe, but even if it just Brown, Smart, and #14, that is at least even with Ball, Ingram, #4. I mean, it shouldn't be - Ingram was expected to be an All-Star by now, Ball went ahead of even Tatum, and the #4 pick is typically supposed to be a premium pick - but that Cs package, as-is, is still pretty appetizing.

I'd be interested to see how teams feel about Ingram. Personally, blood clots make me nervous - maybe moreso than necessary or that what the diagnosis indicates - but it sounds scary and is the kind of thing that can derail a career. Either way, there's baggage there and baggage with Lonzo too.

That's the thing with the Cs package - it is totally anti-drama. You are getting two hard working young players - one with a very high ceiling and one 1st team All-defense - and at least one lottery pick. No question marks, no crazy dads. And the difference between that #4 and #14 isn't nearly what we've seen in years past.

[keevsnick]

Ramona Shelburne:

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1139265427090149383

Quote:
"I don't think Kuzma is a deal breaker. I think it's being reported incorrectly. He's not in the deal, and to even describe it as a deal right now is inaccurate. They just have had conversations on concepts right now."

"If Kuzma is not in the deal I think the Lakers would have to give up something in the future like future draft picks. The Lakers have by far the best package, and they feel like they are in the driver seat."

"My sense from the Pelicans side is that it's more so about the weight of the number of assets. I think Lonzo Ball is a pretty key part of this. I think he's the most important in this deal."

No, Ramona, LA does not have “by far” the best package, you idiot. If they did, why the F would NOLA be asking them to go and get a vet star in addition to their package?!

God, even the LA-based reporters are biased, clueless morons just like their fans.

And that’s not even including the comment about Ball...

Actually, it's entirely possible they do in terms of what is actually being offered. If the celtics really aren't including Tatum and maybe even not the MEM pick and other teams are hesitating b.v to put in their best stuff because of all the posturing Davis has done then its conceivable LA is in the driver's seat.

[footey]

Ramona Shelburne:

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1139265427090149383

Quote:
"I don't think Kuzma is a deal breaker. I think it's being reported incorrectly. He's not in the deal, and to even describe it as a deal right now is inaccurate. They just have had conversations on concepts right now."

"If Kuzma is not in the deal I think the Lakers would have to give up something in the future like future draft picks. The Lakers have by far the best package, and they feel like they are in the driver seat."

"My sense from the Pelicans side is that it's more so about the weight of the number of assets. I think Lonzo Ball is a pretty key part of this. I think he's the most important in this deal."

Like, literally all three of the comments seem inaccurate:

Kuzma definitely seems like he should be a deal-breaker from NOP's side; The Lakers definitely do NOT have by far the best package; and I can't imagine Lonzo Ball is the key to this whole thing working out.

I mean, what do I know - I'm just a guy. But this all seems like extremely biased info coming from one of LA's most notorious sources.

Lakers maybe have the best package if Ainge is lowballing, but certainly don't have the best package if everything is on the table.

Maybe, but even if it just Brown, Smart, and #14, that is at least even with Ball, Ingram, #4. I mean, it shouldn't be - Ingram was expected to be an All-Star by now, Ball went ahead of even Tatum, and the #4 pick is typically supposed to be a premium pick - but that Cs package, as-is, is still pretty appetizing.

I'd be interested to see how teams feel about Ingram. Personally, blood clots make me nervous - maybe moreso than necessary or that what the diagnosis indicates - but it sounds scary and is the kind of thing that can derail a career. Either way, there's baggage there and baggage with Lonzo too.

I'm not sure there's much baggage with Ball anymore.

How about that he doesn’t want to play there?

[nickagneta]

Maybe, but even if it just Brown, Smart, and #14, that is at least even with Ball, Ingram, #4. I mean, it shouldn't be - Ingram was expected to be an All-Star by now, Ball went ahead of even Tatum, and the #4 pick is typically supposed to be a premium pick - but that Cs package, as-is, is still pretty appetizing.

I'd be interested to see how teams feel about Ingram. Personally, blood clots make me nervous - maybe moreso than necessary or that what the diagnosis indicates - but it sounds scary and is the kind of thing that can derail a career. Either way, there's baggage there and baggage with Lonzo too.

That's the thing with the Cs package - it is totally anti-drama. You are getting two hard working young players - one with a very high ceiling and one 1st team All-defense - and at least one lottery pick. No question marks, no crazy dads. And the difference between that #4 and #14 isn't nearly what we've seen in years past.

I think this makes needs to be understood more. In a normal draft, the #4 pick holds a lot of value. Maybe not so much this year.

I think the 4th and 14th picks are not all that different this year. Yes, some draftniks see a difference between picks 4 and 9 or so and then picks 10 through 14. I really don't. It would not surprise me in the least to see players 9 through 14 being better than players 4 through 9.

[Spicoli]

Irving and Davis can both kick rocks. I'm much more interested in trading for Conley and starting Williams at Center. Trade Smart and two firsts for Conley. Or just trade Hayward for him straight up.

Conley
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Williams

Hayward off the bench

[seancally]

Maybe, but even if it just Brown, Smart, and #14, that is at least even with Ball, Ingram, #4. I mean, it shouldn't be - Ingram was expected to be an All-Star by now, Ball went ahead of even Tatum, and the #4 pick is typically supposed to be a premium pick - but that Cs package, as-is, is still pretty appetizing.

I'd be interested to see how teams feel about Ingram. Personally, blood clots make me nervous - maybe moreso than necessary or that what the diagnosis indicates - but it sounds scary and is the kind of thing that can derail a career. Either way, there's baggage there and baggage with Lonzo too.

That's the thing with the Cs package - it is totally anti-drama. You are getting two hard working young players - one with a very high ceiling and one 1st team All-defense - and at least one lottery pick. No question marks, no crazy dads. And the difference between that #4 and #14 isn't nearly what we've seen in years past.

I think this makes needs to be understood more. In a normal draft, the #4 pick holds a lot of value. Maybe not so much this year.

I think the 4th and 14th picks are not all that different this year. Yes, some draftniks see a difference between picks 4 and 9 or so and then picks 10 through 14. I really don't. It would not surprise me in the least to see players 9 through 14 being better than players 4 through 9.

Which is probably why Griffin is asking for a high-caliber player rather than the No. 4 pick, and also why the Lakers may have trouble getting that done.

[SHAQATTACK]

sauces ?

[SHAQATTACK]

Maybe, but even if it just Brown, Smart, and #14, that is at least even with Ball, Ingram, #4. I mean, it shouldn't be - Ingram was expected to be an All-Star by now, Ball went ahead of even Tatum, and the #4 pick is typically supposed to be a premium pick - but that Cs package, as-is, is still pretty appetizing.

I'd be interested to see how teams feel about Ingram. Personally, blood clots make me nervous - maybe moreso than necessary or that what the diagnosis indicates - but it sounds scary and is the kind of thing that can derail a career. Either way, there's baggage there and baggage with Lonzo too.

That's the thing with the Cs package - it is totally anti-drama. You are getting two hard working young players - one with a very high ceiling and one 1st team All-defense - and at least one lottery pick. No question marks, no crazy dads. And the difference between that #4 and #14 isn't nearly what we've seen in years past.

I think this makes needs to be understood more. In a normal draft, the #4 pick holds a lot of value. Maybe not so much this year.

I think the 4th and 14th picks are not all that different this year. Yes, some draftniks see a difference between picks 4 and 9 or so and then picks 10 through 14. I really don't. It would not surprise me in the least to see players 9 through 14 being better than players 4 through 9.

from all I ve read , i have to agree ,  a team could easily strike gold with number 14 as # 4 .   

[greg683x]

Ramona Shelburne:

https://twitter.com/ShowtimeForum/status/1139265427090149383

Quote:
"I don't think Kuzma is a deal breaker. I think it's being reported incorrectly. He's not in the deal, and to even describe it as a deal right now is inaccurate. They just have had conversations on concepts right now."

"If Kuzma is not in the deal I think the Lakers would have to give up something in the future like future draft picks. The Lakers have by far the best package, and they feel like they are in the driver seat."

"My sense from the Pelicans side is that it's more so about the weight of the number of assets. I think Lonzo Ball is a pretty key part of this. I think he's the most important in this deal."

Like, literally all three of the comments seem inaccurate:

Kuzma definitely seems like he should be a deal-breaker from NOP's side; The Lakers definitely do NOT have by far the best package; and I can't imagine Lonzo Ball is the key to this whole thing working out.

I mean, what do I know - I'm just a guy. But this all seems like extremely biased info coming from one of LA's most notorious sources.

Lakers maybe have the best package if Ainge is lowballing, but certainly don't have the best package if everything is on the table.

Maybe, but even if it just Brown, Smart, and #14, that is at least even with Ball, Ingram, #4. I mean, it shouldn't be - Ingram was expected to be an All-Star by now, Ball went ahead of even Tatum, and the #4 pick is typically supposed to be a premium pick - but that Cs package, as-is, is still pretty appetizing.

I'd be interested to see how teams feel about Ingram. Personally, blood clots make me nervous - maybe moreso than necessary or that what the diagnosis indicates - but it sounds scary and is the kind of thing that can derail a career. Either way, there's baggage there and baggage with Lonzo too.

I'm not sure there's much baggage with Ball anymore.

just google lavar ball new orleans

[KGs Knee]

Irving and Davis can both kick rocks. I'm much more interested in trading for Conley and starting Williams at Center. Trade Smart and two firsts for Conley. Or just trade Hayward for him straight up.

Conley
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Williams

Hayward off the bench

Yikes, that seems like a horrible idea.

I'd be down with Conley as a backup plan if Kyrie leaves, but not at that price.

[Spicoli]

Irving and Davis can both kick rocks. I'm much more interested in trading for Conley and starting Williams at Center. Trade Smart and two firsts for Conley. Or just trade Hayward for him straight up.

Conley
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Williams

Hayward off the bench

Yikes, that seems like a horrible idea.

I'd be down with Conley as a backup plan if Kyrie leaves, but not at that price.

What price do you think would be reasonable? Maybe Smart and the 20th pick? I would not include the Memphis pick.

[PhoSita]

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I also think we should underscore how crappy the Lakers' young player assets are.


Lonzo Ball in his first two seasons in the league has not played more than 52 games in a season.  He's a guard who shoots WAY below 50% on free throws.  His EFG% is closer to 45% than 50%.  He takes half his shots from three despite hitting barely above 30% on those attempts.  I suppose you could argue that his defense makes him something like Marcus Smart with more prolific passing, but Lonzo is 190 pounds, meaning he can't possibly guard the range of players that Marcus can. 

None of the above even gets into all the crazy stuff with his dad.  That's not a small factor, and it's entirely in the negative category.


Brandon Ingram has played fewer than 60 games the last two seasons after playing 79 his first season.  His career EFG% is below 50%.  His career FT% is about 66%.  He's at about 33% from three for his career even though he only takes about two three pointers per game.  Most [dang]ing, perhaps, is that despite his height and length, Ingram averages only 0.6 steals and 0.6 blocks per game.  That's pathetic.  He's also a very poor rebounder for his size.

Add on top of that Ingram's blood clot concerns and I really have to wonder why anybody thinks he should be considered a significant piece of this trade.  Maybe he'll be a useful player some day but right now the evidence just isn't there that he helps a team more than a replacement level player with a much lower usage rate.




The numbers for Kuzma are better, but it's notable that he's already 23 years old, is barely a break-even three point shooter so far on nearly 6 attempts a game, does not get steals or blocks, and doesn't really have a clear position defensively.


You can throw in Josh Hart who is somewhat injury prone (63 and 67 games in his first two years) and is just an OK 3 point shooter.  Hart doesn't impact a game defensively, doesn't get to the free throw line much (where he's barely a 70% shooter anyway), and isn't a playmaker.



Why does anybody think these young Lakers players are enticing pieces in a trade?

[KGs Knee]

Irving and Davis can both kick rocks. I'm much more interested in trading for Conley and starting Williams at Center. Trade Smart and two firsts for Conley. Or just trade Hayward for him straight up.

Conley
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Williams

Hayward off the bench

Yikes, that seems like a horrible idea.

I'd be down with Conley as a backup plan if Kyrie leaves, but not at that price.

What price do you think would be reasonable? Maybe Smart and the 20th pick? I would not include the Memphis pick.

I wouldn't include any picks if I'm sending out Smart.  Conley doesn't have that kind of value, given his age, injury history and contract.  I don't like sending out Smart, but realize he would probably have to go to make the money work.  Which is ultimately why I don't think Boston and Memphis make good trade partners here.

[nickagneta]

Irving and Davis can both kick rocks. I'm much more interested in trading for Conley and starting Williams at Center. Trade Smart and two firsts for Conley. Or just trade Hayward for him straight up.

Conley
Brown
Tatum
Horford
Williams

Hayward off the bench

I have to ask, what makes you think that Williams should be starting? I am pretty sure Williams might spend the whole year in Maine. He showed me nothing last year to make me think he is a rotation player next year, nevermind a starter.

And that Conley trade isn't financially legal. Salaries don't match and he isn't worth 2 firsts.

[KGs Knee]

Why does anybody think these young Lakers players are enticing pieces in a trade?

Well, it seems like the Pelicans are at least listening, which must mean they possibly find these pieces enticing enough given the circumstances.