Author Topic: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)  (Read 238723 times)

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Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1125 on: October 01, 2018, 05:16:40 AM »

Offline playdream

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Actually he was known to defend without fouling in college

The way he is flailing at every shot won't work in the pros.   The pro game and college are different just ask Danny Ferry...
Don't know if we are watching the same game.. the beauty of having LONG arms is you can defend without fouling
He ain't Kelly Olynk

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1126 on: October 01, 2018, 06:51:59 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Actually he was known to defend without fouling in college

The way he is flailing at every shot won't work in the pros.   The pro game and college are different just ask Danny Ferry...
Don't know if we are watching the same game.. the beauty of having LONG arms is you can defend without fouling
He ain't Kelly Olynk
I don't miss the days of Olynyk and Zeller at all, lol
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
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Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1127 on: October 01, 2018, 06:55:51 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Actually he was known to defend without fouling in college

The way he is flailing at every shot won't work in the pros.   The pro game and college are different just ask Danny Ferry...
Don't know if we are watching the same game.. the beauty of having LONG arms is you can defend without fouling
He ain't Kelly Olynk
I don't miss the days of Olynyk and Zeller at all, lol
Me neither.
Their consistency was as firm as of a wet white sock.
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Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1128 on: October 01, 2018, 07:54:20 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Don't know if we are watching the same game.. the beauty of having LONG arms is you can defend without fouling
He ain't Kelly Olynk


I am 6-7 with a 6-11 wingspan and it is pretty clear that you have no idea, what advantages long give you.  It gives you the ability to deceive defenders in thinking their safe so you can get passes and block and alter shots.   It lets you play bigger than your height.   But it really has nothing to do with not fouling.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1129 on: October 01, 2018, 07:55:02 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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In 9 minutes the kid altered shots,set screens and re screens on almost every play,forced a turnover with quick hands,bottled a player in the corner with his quick lateral and length contributing to a 24 second violation.Got up for an offensive rebound over Hernangomez and drew a foul.
He caused a Kaminsky air ball and altered other shots
And the not to forget the simple, effective, Horford like pass from top of key into low post to Yabusele
Williams hit 3 of 4 foul shots.


Liked all the observations but especially wanted to pick these out. What doesn't show up in the box scores are the screens, rescreens, altered shots, and Charlotte players who just wanted no part of him and passed the ball rather than challenge him. There were a bunch of close-in shots that Williams turned into misses with his presence. Very, very promising.

One thing I don't know if you saw Rollie - at least twice defending a pick and roll, Williams ended up in a double-team on the Hornets ballhandler - he switched onto the ball after his man set a pick and the Celtic guard who was guarding the ball fought over or around the pick to stay on the ball. The result was a very high double-team and the Charlotte big slipping directly to the hoop for an easy bucket. The double didn't look planned - it wasn't an aggressive trap and allowed the pass to get to the rolling big. Wasn't sure whose fault that was - scheme, RWill, Celtic guard? Maybe the communication just wasn't there.

I think his position was generally good, but that was a little out of whack.


Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1130 on: October 01, 2018, 08:03:04 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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In 9 minutes the kid altered shots,set screens and re screens on almost every play,forced a turnover with quick hands,bottled a player in the corner with his quick lateral and length contributing to a 24 second violation.Got up for an offensive rebound over Hernangomez and drew a foul.
He caused a Kaminsky air ball and altered other shots
And the not to forget the simple, effective, Horford like pass from top of key into low post to Yabusele
Williams hit 3 of 4 foul shots.


Liked all the observations but especially wanted to pick these out. What doesn't show up in the box scores are the screens, rescreens, altered shots, and Charlotte players who just wanted no part of him and passed the ball rather than challenge him. There were a bunch of close-in shots that Williams turned into misses with his presence. Very, very promising.

One thing I don't know if you saw Rollie - at least twice defending a pick and roll, Williams ended up in a double-team on the Hornets ballhandler - he switched onto the ball after his man set a pick and the Celtic guard who was guarding the ball fought over or around the pick to stay on the ball. The result was a very high double-team and the Charlotte big slipping directly to the hoop for an easy bucket. The double didn't look planned - it wasn't an aggressive trap and allowed the pass to get to the rolling big. Wasn't sure whose fault that was - scheme, RWill, Celtic guard? Maybe the communication just wasn't there.

I think his position was generally good, but that was a little out of whack.

To my eye, the 'deep-deep-bench' lineup that we put out there at the end of each game didn't look like they knew how to play together as a unit up until around the last 3-4 minutes of last night's game.  In the first game and their earlier moments of the second game, they looked like a collection of random individuals who were strangers to each other.

I think though, during the last tiny handful of minutes they seemed to finally start to click, showing much better awareness of each other and where each was supposed to be on the court.  Much better passing and much better help.   That, to me, was the biggest difference in the outcome of the two games.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1131 on: October 01, 2018, 08:23:47 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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 I was impressed with Roberts double team out deep and his quickness laterally. You can feel his aggressive enjoyment as he challenges guards.Shut down a small forward/guard in corner first game forcing 24 second violation..His length and quick feet stopped it dead.
Being Celtics centric, the center position has been ill equipped to perform at Williams type level.
Willie Cauley Stein was touted to guard 1-5 but i have never watched him play,is Capella as quick on perimeter as Williams ?
It's easy to be impressed after Zeller,Kelly,Amir and Sully.AND then against Charlotte bench.Was Nerlens as active on perimeter?
This kid picked at 27 is not a reflection of his specific elite tools on defensive end.
So if his  skills translate  under specific circumstances why send him to Maine except for a run after lengthy string of DNP's.
These 8 minute runs might just do the trick rather risking injury or flare up of tendonitis.




Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1132 on: October 01, 2018, 09:00:41 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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The thing I find myself watching with young bigs is their feet.  Overall, I thought Williams had very good footwork.   Very quick and he keeps his weight between his toes, allowing him to change directions and move explosively.  He rarely gets caught with his weight taking him out of a play.

This (good footwork) is probably the most important skill aspect that leads to more frequent and effective shot contention.   Long arms are just the final part of it that people see at the culmination.  But long arms aren't contesting a shot if you body isn't where it needs to be.

Al Horford is by no means the longest big man in the NBA and yet, because he has absolutely brilliant feet, he was arguably the best at shot contention in the league last year.  He was among the top few in number of shots defended and just crushed with his defensive FG% differential.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1133 on: October 01, 2018, 09:05:40 AM »

Offline playdream

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Don't know if we are watching the same game.. the beauty of having LONG arms is you can defend without fouling
He ain't Kelly Olynk


I am 6-7 with a 6-11 wingspan and it is pretty clear that you have no idea, what advantages long give you.  It gives you the ability to deceive defenders in thinking their safe so you can get passes and block and alter shots.   It lets you play bigger than your height.   But it really has nothing to do with not fouling.
It's clear you don't know how to fully use your wingspan to avoid fouling but ok ;)

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1134 on: October 01, 2018, 12:16:27 PM »

Offline footey

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Williams is very raw.

But I suspect Brad will find him meaningful minutes this season, early on.
 
As I stated previously, I expect him to be used about as much as we saw Semi used last season. In fact, I would be unsurprised if he gets more minutes than Semi this season. He can do things that Semi cannot. What remains to be seen is if he can hold his ground against strong post up guys the way that Semi could. Maybe not.

What really excites me about Williams is the prospect of grooming him for one thing in particular: 

Defending Kevin Durant 1 on 1.   Until now, we simply have not had a guy both long enough and athletic enough to do that. Jaylen has had good moments defending Durant (remember him blocking his shot in Garden last season?? Sweet),but in the course of a 7 game series, you need someone who can be delegated to guard him. 

The Rockets did this with Cappella with some limited success last season in the play-offs. But my eye test tells me that Williams is superior to Capella in terms of lateral quickness. He could really frustrate him.

Williams will need to go through a lot of mistakes to get there.  He still goes too easily for head fakes, for example. But that will come with experience.  The Celtics need to give him as much real game experience now at the senior circuit level now.

Forget the Red Claws.  I hope he spends very little time down there. It will be far more valuable to this team to give him a lot of experience defending long guys like Greek Freak, Durant, so that come play off time, we have our secret formula for beating the Warriors: NEUTRALIZE DURANT.  I watched them play pre-season the other night, and they are still amazing.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1135 on: October 01, 2018, 01:20:47 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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What really excites me about Williams is the prospect of grooming him for one thing in particular: 

Defending Kevin Durant 1 on 1.   Until now, we simply have not had a guy both long enough and athletic enough to do that. Jaylen has had good moments defending Durant (remember him blocking his shot in Garden last season?? Sweet),but in the course of a 7 game series, you need someone who can be delegated to guard him. 


This I hadn't thought of, but you have me interested. Durant is awfully crafty but who knows? Look at what Semi did to Giannis. At least Williams won't be outclassed athletically or on length.


Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1136 on: October 01, 2018, 02:47:26 PM »

Offline moiso

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I see Williams as a center who has the quickness to switch onto smaller guys amazingly well.  I don’t see him guarding a perimeter scorer like Durant full time.  I’d much rather have Brown and Semi guard him.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1137 on: October 01, 2018, 03:17:51 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I see Williams as a center who has the quickness to switch onto smaller guys amazingly well.  I don’t see him guarding a perimeter scorer like Durant full time.  I’d much rather have Brown and Semi guard him.

I don't think defense is as simple as saying this guy covers that guy.  They will just do a pick and roll and make you switch or wait until you need to sag off.  William appears to be a very good asset to have in the arsenal but he won't be on the court enough at this point.  Maybe some day but right now, you aren't going to play him just for his defense.  He doesn't have enough else yet.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1138 on: October 01, 2018, 03:38:54 PM »

Online blink

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Williams is very raw.

But I suspect Brad will find him meaningful minutes this season, early on.
 
As I stated previously, I expect him to be used about as much as we saw Semi used last season. In fact, I would be unsurprised if he gets more minutes than Semi this season. He can do things that Semi cannot. What remains to be seen is if he can hold his ground against strong post up guys the way that Semi could. Maybe not.

What really excites me about Williams is the prospect of grooming him for one thing in particular: 

Defending Kevin Durant 1 on 1.   Until now, we simply have not had a guy both long enough and athletic enough to do that. Jaylen has had good moments defending Durant (remember him blocking his shot in Garden last season?? Sweet),but in the course of a 7 game series, you need someone who can be delegated to guard him. 

The Rockets did this with Cappella with some limited success last season in the play-offs. But my eye test tells me that Williams is superior to Capella in terms of lateral quickness. He could really frustrate him.

Williams will need to go through a lot of mistakes to get there.  He still goes too easily for head fakes, for example. But that will come with experience.  The Celtics need to give him as much real game experience now at the senior circuit level now.

Forget the Red Claws.  I hope he spends very little time down there. It will be far more valuable to this team to give him a lot of experience defending long guys like Greek Freak, Durant, so that come play off time, we have our secret formula for beating the Warriors: NEUTRALIZE DURANT.  I watched them play pre-season the other night, and they are still amazing.

At first when I was reading your post, I was almost ready to reject the idea, but looking back at some of Williams videos (and watching him play yesterday) + thinking about it a bit more I honestly see your point now.  As a 10-12 min per game change of pace dedicated Durant defender or dedicated Durant switcher - Williams could be helpful IF he gets his overall def IQ up to the point where he isn't a liability for team def.  He obviously isn't there yet.  A year of work under Brad could he get there?  Yes maybe.

I also like the idea of him staying with the big boys.  I don't think he is going to learn what he needs to learn in Maine.  The game isn't too fast for him, he doesn't need to develop his body, he isn't going to be a main scorer anytime soon, so some of the reasons you send kids to Maine maybe aren't as valid with Williams skill set.  I know PT is the big question.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 03:44:40 PM by blink »

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1139 on: October 01, 2018, 03:42:40 PM »

Online blink

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I see Williams as a center who has the quickness to switch onto smaller guys amazingly well.  I don’t see him guarding a perimeter scorer like Durant full time.  I’d much rather have Brown and Semi guard him.

I don't think defense is as simple as saying this guy covers that guy.  They will just do a pick and roll and make you switch or wait until you need to sag off.  William appears to be a very good asset to have in the arsenal but he won't be on the court enough at this point.  Maybe some day but right now, you aren't going to play him just for his defense.  He doesn't have enough else yet.

But say if he is the 9th /10th / 11th man in the rotation does he even need to have anything else?

He isn't going to play before Rozier / Smart / Morris/ Baynes....but maybe for certain games he plays before Theis.  Maybe games that one of Horford / Baynes are out he plays decent minutes.  It is a long season, I would have to think he will get a chance at decent minutes if he shows cont improved with def switches and team D.