Derrick White extension?

[Moranis]

I feel like the team chose Jrue over Derrick.  The ridiculous contract they gave Jrue makes it very hard to envision them keeping Derrick.

true! Probably why they kept Payton..I would gave White the extension before Jru because of age first of all plus great defense for a PG

We had to decide on Jrue first.  He could hit free agency this summer.  We can't even offer White a market-value deal until 2025.

I guess we could have let Jrue walk, played short-handed next year, and then hope White stayed.  But, that seems like a bad decision to me.

but we didn't have to give him 4 years st 34 million a year. It was a horrible overpay and is a bad contract.

[BitterJim]

I feel like the team chose Jrue over Derrick.  The ridiculous contract they gave Jrue makes it very hard to envision them keeping Derrick.

true! Probably why they kept Payton..I would gave White the extension before Jru because of age first of all plus great defense for a PG

We had to decide on Jrue first.  He could hit free agency this summer.  We can't even offer White a market-value deal until 2025.

I guess we could have let Jrue walk, played short-handed next year, and then hope White stayed.  But, that seems like a bad decision to me.

I think they would have had to sign Jrue even if it's an overpay, because then you have an asset you can trade rather than have nothing and be unable to replace him like for like because we would still be over the cap. Same deal as Jaylen.

Yeah, I see Jrue as the odd man out in a couple of years when we are looking to reduce our tax bill. As long as he's still a viable player at that point, I don't think it will be too hard to find a lottery team willing to take on his salary (or a contender that wants him with a lottery team taking on some of the contender's salary plus a pick so we take minimal salary back)

At this point, I think Tatum and White are the two guys who are least likely to be moved/let walk

[Vermont Green]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

[keevsnick]

I don't think the Jrue contract has much to do with the White contract. I don't love the Jrue contract, but he with the player option this summer Jrue was in a strong position. They didn't want to lose him for nothing, but they also needed him to take less next year to save some tax money.

I expect they'll offer D White the most they can, and if they can't re-sign him they'll roll forward with the intent to sign him in 2025. They'll figure out the huge luxury tax bill when they need to.

[Moranis]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

[Roy H.]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

We have no idea if it's going to make White more difficult to retain.  That's purely a Wyc decision.

And, keep in mind that lowering Jrue's salary next season saved the team a ton of money.   When combining his salary drop ($7,000,000) with luxury tax savings (approximately $31 million), that's a significant amount of savings that Wyc can put into the team in future years.

Jrue is going to be making around 20% of the cap.  It's a bit more than I hoped to pay, but it's not really a problem unless 1) Jrue's production falls way off; or 2) Wyc uses it as an excuse not to maintain the team.

[Moranis]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

We have no idea if it's going to make White more difficult to retain.  That's purely a Wyc decision.

And, keep in mind that lowering Jrue's salary next season saved the team a ton of money.   When combining his salary drop ($7,000,000) with luxury tax savings (approximately $31 million), that's a significant amount of savings that Wyc can put into the team in future years.

Jrue is going to be making around 20% of the cap.  It's a bit more than I hoped to pay, but it's not really a problem unless 1) Jrue's production falls way off; or 2) Wyc uses it as an excuse not to maintain the team.

what do you mean if? His production is already falling off. He is finishing up his 15th year.  He isn't going to turn back the clock and undo all that mileage. The contract starts for his year 16 and runs through year 19.  It is a horrible contract that hamstrings the team.

[jambr380]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

I hear you and I agree that it was a little too much, but Jrue was fully in the driver's seat. We gave up a LOT to get him and we had to keep him for the trade to make sense. Also, we didn't necessarily 'choose' wrong. There hasn't been an official choice yet. It's very likely we try and keep both Jrue and White for the time being.

It's also very likely we try and dump Jrue after a couple of years if his production dips and if the team is getting too expensive. We were able to trade a permanently injured Kemba with two years of max salary left on his deal and a 1st for a productive, moderately cheaper player in Al Horford. Brad has literally done this already, so I'm assuming he's willing to sacrifice another late 1st in the future in order to field the most competitive team he can right now if he has to.

Also, with likely incentives in his contract, Jrue was actually set to make over $39M next year. He'll actually make around $9M less, which will save quite a bit on the tax.

[michigan adam]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

I hear you and I agree that it was a little too much, but Jrue was fully in the driver's seat. We gave up a LOT to get him and we had to keep him for the trade to make sense. Also, we didn't necessarily 'choose' wrong. There hasn't been an official choice yet. It's very likely we try and keep both Jrue and White for the time being.

It's also very likely we try and dump Jrue after a couple of years if his production dips and if the team is getting too expensive. We were able to trade a permanently injured Kemba with two years of max salary left on his deal and a 1st for a productive, moderately cheaper player in Al Horford. Brad has literally done this already, so I'm assuming he's willing to sacrifice another late 1st in the future in order to field the most competitive team he can right now if he has to.

Also, with likely incentives in his contract, Jrue was actually set to make over $39M next year. He'll actually make around $9M less, which will save quite a bit on the tax.

all of this chose wrong...I just don't get it.  The team has the option to keep every player on the roster for basically as long as both parties want it right?  The CBA doesn't say....you are too far over the cap, you can't resign your players.  It makes it harder to trade players, sign new players, and even draft new players, but not resign old ones.  The only hindrance to that is $$$, and allot of it. If the team is winning at a top level, and making tons of money for the team, I see owners sticking with the team.  If Jrue or someone else isn't playing up to their contract I see them moving them, but it will most certainly be a dump or near dump, with the exception of big AL.  He will retire one of these days, and he will be hard to replace unless X or Q can do it.  The hard "choice" for me is on Hauser.  Will they spend what it will take to keep him.  He is young with a huge skill.  Teams will pay big for that, especially with the improved play.  He will likely cost at least PP money on his next deal.  Add the tax payments to that and that isn't an easy choice, but again its all about choosing to spend the money.  White is a much easier choice.  You offer the max extension, and if he doesn't take it you offer the max you can once he hits FA.

[Vermont Green]

Yeah, I don't see the signing of Holiday as being the result of a choice.  I think their hope is to keep everyone.  They hope White signs an extension, he might, maybe more likely than not, he tests free agency, but then they can pay more than anyone to sign him as a FA.  No choices are off the table at this point.

I think that in almost any scenario, one of Brown, Holiday, or White is going to have to be traded at some point.  But that point isn't now.  For now, they keep all three.  Signing Holiday wasn't making a choice, it was kicking the choice "can" down the road.  They can keep everyone for next season, save some money next season, and still have all options open for beyond next season.

It might be Brown that they trade, if it comes to it, and White stays on a big contract.  Maybe they trade White this off season (if he doesn't extend), I hope not, but they will get a lot more for White than they would for Holiday.  Or maybe they sign White to a big contract and trade Holiday.  All options are still available.  Or maybe with the cap going up and who knows what else, they are able to keep all 3 beyond next season.

[ozgod]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

We have no idea if it's going to make White more difficult to retain.  That's purely a Wyc decision.

And, keep in mind that lowering Jrue's salary next season saved the team a ton of money.   When combining his salary drop ($7,000,000) with luxury tax savings (approximately $31 million), that's a significant amount of savings that Wyc can put into the team in future years.

Jrue is going to be making around 20% of the cap.  It's a bit more than I hoped to pay, but it's not really a problem unless 1) Jrue's production falls way off; or 2) Wyc uses it as an excuse not to maintain the team.

I only see it as a problem if we feel he's going to become an albatross contract which is untradeable. I know he's 34 but I think it's still a contract that is very fungible. There's a number of teams that might see him as that final missing piece, like we did. I think the GMs know that his production drop off this season is the result of sacrifice rather than significant deterioration.

The key, of course, is picking the right time to trade him.

[ozgod]

Jrue Holiday signed for 4 years, 135 million. If you are Derrick White are you going to sign for less than that?

I think he might.  I am not sure what the max extension is, +/- $125M over 4 years?  That is less than $135M but he would have to wait to get more than that.  There would be risk for him as well as for the team if White decides to wait and test FA.  I expect that the Celtics will offer the most they can as an extension, and it will be White who has to decide.  It is as simple as that for now.

Holiday is a two-time NBA All-Star and five-time NBA All-Defensive Team member.  That beats White's accomplishments to date.  Moving forward, White is younger and will probably be better.  It would not be crazy for White to take the extension now.  As others have said, he could get hurt, he could have a down year, a lot can happen to impact what his market value will be after next season.  If he does wait, and continues to play well and be healthy, then yes, he will get more.

White is already better and more valuable to the C's than Holiday is. Holiday is in his 15th year and will be 34 during the Finals. He is deteriorating already as a player.  The Celtics gave him a ridiculous contract and made it very difficult to keep White in the process. The team chose wrong.

I hear you and I agree that it was a little too much, but Jrue was fully in the driver's seat. We gave up a LOT to get him and we had to keep him for the trade to make sense. Also, we didn't necessarily 'choose' wrong. There hasn't been an official choice yet. It's very likely we try and keep both Jrue and White for the time being.

It's also very likely we try and dump Jrue after a couple of years if his production dips and if the team is getting too expensive. We were able to trade a permanently injured Kemba with two years of max salary left on his deal and a 1st for a productive, moderately cheaper player in Al Horford. Brad has literally done this already, so I'm assuming he's willing to sacrifice another late 1st in the future in order to field the most competitive team he can right now if he has to.

Also, with likely incentives in his contract, Jrue was actually set to make over $39M next year. He'll actually make around $9M less, which will save quite a bit on the tax.

all of this chose wrong...I just don't get it.  The team has the option to keep every player on the roster for basically as long as both parties want it right?  The CBA doesn't say....you are too far over the cap, you can't resign your players.  It makes it harder to trade players, sign new players, and even draft new players, but not resign old ones.  The only hindrance to that is $$$, and allot of it. If the team is winning at a top level, and making tons of money for the team, I see owners sticking with the team.  If Jrue or someone else isn't playing up to their contract I see them moving them, but it will most certainly be a dump or near dump, with the exception of big AL.  He will retire one of these days, and he will be hard to replace unless X or Q can do it.  The hard "choice" for me is on Hauser.  Will they spend what it will take to keep him.  He is young with a huge skill.  Teams will pay big for that, especially with the improved play.  He will likely cost at least PP money on his next deal.  Add the tax payments to that and that isn't an easy choice, but again its all about choosing to spend the money.  White is a much easier choice.  You offer the max extension, and if he doesn't take it you offer the max you can once he hits FA.

That's what I mentioned earlier...if they wanted to, they could re-sign everyone on the roster, end up with a salary cap allocation of $268m, pay $414m in tax for a total cost of $642m, accept all the roster building penalties like having our draft pick frozen and put to the end, losing our MLE, being unable to aggregate salaries in trade, etc. All it would take is the willingness to accept the penalties and the willingness to accept that we would be locked into that team and being limited in improving it externally. If Wyc is ok with it, then we can roll with it.

The question is really how long it would be sustainable. If you keep winning like we did this season, maybe Wyc is ok with it. If we turn into the Phoenix Suns and exit in the first round and he has to be $642m (escalating every year) he might not be. And at that point we would find it difficult to untangle things immediately, like Phoenix are finding now.

Again, it's all about timing...knowing how long you can ride a good thing and when to exit it and make sure you have an exit strategy.

As for Hauser, he's ultimately a small part of the whole thing. Whatever contract they give him, it's likely going to be a tradeable contract. It's the big ones on the top end that will require a bit more thought on how to dump. Because if you're over the second apron you have some limitations in dumping them, and it won't give you cap relief unless you are willing to trade them into someone's cap space who is under the cap and basically give them away for free.

[Phantom255x]

If we aren't able to keep White beyond 2025 because of Jrue... would the trade have been worth it? Idk.

[Donoghus]

If we aren't able to keep White beyond 2025 because of Jrue... would the trade have been worth it? Idk.

If they win back to back titles, what do you think?

[Roy H.]

If we aren't able to keep White beyond 2025 because of Jrue... would the trade have been worth it? Idk.

If they win back to back titles, what do you think?

Exactly this.  It's a results driven business.