Author Topic: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?  (Read 3289 times)

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Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« on: January 07, 2009, 02:29:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I said this in my grades evaluation thread, that the Celtics whole was better than the sum of its parts. They had a couple of really good defensive players and some okay defensive players but they had one of the best team defensive units in the history of the game. They have individually outstanding offensive players but by sacrificing some and constantly passing the ball so that the open man is always taking the best shot, this team was the most offensively efficient and dangerous teams in the league.

But they haven't been this since Christmas. Why?

Could it be as simple as this? Could the recent road woes and poor play be explained as easily as that this team isn't playing a team game any longer?

I thought that recently I've been watching a whole lot more individualism on the offensive end. This team used to have a staple of five or six passes on each possession up the floor. it was like watching Coach Norman Dale's offense in Hoosiers. There wasn't a shot until the ball was passed a certain amount of times.

But now we see the 3-1 screen with one pass to Pierce who then drives and shots or shoots. We see a bunch of Rondo driving off of the high post pick. Pierce seems to be bringing up the ballmore often and so does Ray Allen. Perk, Powe, and KG never seem to pass out of the low post. The second team passing is a joke. And that's just the offensive side.

No one seems to be running at the perimeter shooters or keeping their man in front of them anymore. If someone drives the defender more and more often isn't forcing the driver into help but is reaching in to poke the ball away and relying on the help defense in the post. There's a lot more playing the passing lanes and playing off your man. There's not very much crashing the defensive boards as often three players seem committed to fast break and the communication on rebounds is awful as in just 2 weeks I saw this team loose three separate rebounds on the defensive end because two Celtics were fighting for the ball which led to it coming loose and the opposition getting the ball.

Is there some internal strife? Are the egos starting to come to the forefront? Are some sick of not getting their points and decided to take things into their own hands? Have they stopped listening to the coaching staff?

Well on offense I know this for sure. They are passing nearly as much. In their 5 road losses recently they had 86 assists for 381 field goal attempts. A percentage of 22.5% on the AST/FGA ratio. Except for those 5 games the Celtics normal percentage is 30.1%. That's a huge drop off. This team is just not passing as much and the cohesion and searching out of the open man seems to have disappeared and the running of a quick P&R or high screen or just iso's seems to have taken over.

Two weeks ago at the end of the winning streak the Celtics were holding opponents to around 40% shooting on average, the best in the league. In two weeks that number has gone up almost 1.5 points aftering giving up shooting percentages of .462, .458, .452, .481, and .415 in their recent five road losses.

For me, these and the turnovers, both being made and also not being forced, are the real proof that this team is just not playing in the Ubuntu fashion that they have become known for. Get back to that and all is better. Continue in the same path and the championship is a pipe dream.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 02:41:40 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Great points Nick. (As usual) I think it boils down to 2 things.

1- We are tired. It is very visible out there. Here's my pick-up ball annalogy. Last night we had a good squad running and  ended up winning about 7 in a row. Then we lost the last one because we were really exhausted at that point and just didn't have the same effort as we did the first few games. I think these guys have some nicks and bruises and they are just flat out exhausted. They aren't trying to lose or not giving effort, they just aren't 100% due to age and injury.

2- They are all trying to break the skid by themselves. They all think that if they can just come out and personally light it up on offense, and make a spectacular play on defense, that they can end this bad play and all will be right in the world. Instead it becomes a game of under-passing, forced shots, and defensive missed rotations because they are overplaying. The team ball that worked so well on both ends is not working right now. Not because they are being selfish, but because they are single handedly trying to pull them out of it. That just doesn't work.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 02:44:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Great points Nick. (As usual) I think it boils down to 2 things.

1- We are tired. It is very visible out there. Here's my pick-up ball annalogy. Last night we had a good squad running and  ended up winning about 7 in a row. Then we lost the last one because we were really exhausted at that point and just didn't have the same effort as we did the first few games. I think these guys have some nicks and bruises and they are just flat out exhausted. They aren't trying to lose or not giving effort, they just aren't 100% due to age and injury.

2- They are all trying to break the skid by themselves. They all think that if they can just come out and personally light it up on offense, and make a spectacular play on defense, that they can end this bad play and all will be right in the world. Instead it becomes a game of under-passing, forced shots, and defensive missed rotations because they are overplaying. The team ball that worked so well on both ends is not working right now. Not because they are being selfish, but because they are single handedly trying to pull them out of it. That just doesn't work.
I think your points on the psychology of trying to do everything by themselves to get the whole team going is right on point and explains everything I've been seeing without the interjection of bad karma theories. TP EJ.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 03:09:11 PM »

Offline LB3533

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We are 2-5 since our 19 game win streak.

Here is the break down of our starters over each's last 10 games and last 5 games.

Rondo

L10 - 11.1 PPG, 8.1 APG, 2.0 SPG, FG% .511
L5  - 9.2 PPG, 7.2 APG, 1.6 SPG, FG% .436

Ray Allen

L10 - FG% .460, 3FG% .367
L5 - FG% .409, 3FG% .290

Perk

L10 - 10.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, FG% .645
L5 - 8.0 PPG, 8.1 RPG, FG% .556

KG

L10 - 15.1 PPG, 7.6 RPG, FG% .546
L5 - 13.6 PPG, 9.8 RPG, FG% .508

Pierce

L10 - 21.0 PPG, FG% .539, 3FG% .541
L5 - 25.2 PPG, FG% .548, 3FG% .524

As you can see by these statistical trends, only 1 of our starting 5 has stepped up his game in the recent stretch, Paul Pierce. 4 out of  5 of our starters have regressed in our recent stretch of games.

That is not going to cut it, good bench or not good bench.

Our starters set the tone and are on the floor when the game is in crunch time.

If 4 of our starters are playing worse or not up to par, no bench in the world is going to save this team.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 03:37:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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We are 2-5 since our 19 game win streak.

Here is the break down of our starters over each's last 10 games and last 5 games.

Rondo

L10 - 11.1 PPG, 8.1 APG, 2.0 SPG, FG% .511
L5  - 9.2 PPG, 7.2 APG, 1.6 SPG, FG% .436

Ray Allen

L10 - FG% .460, 3FG% .367
L5 - FG% .409, 3FG% .290

Perk

L10 - 10.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, FG% .645
L5 - 8.0 PPG, 8.1 RPG, FG% .556

KG

L10 - 15.1 PPG, 7.6 RPG, FG% .546
L5 - 13.6 PPG, 9.8 RPG, FG% .508

Pierce

L10 - 21.0 PPG, FG% .539, 3FG% .541
L5 - 25.2 PPG, FG% .548, 3FG% .524

As you can see by these statistical trends, only 1 of our starting 5 has stepped up his game in the recent stretch, Paul Pierce. 4 out of  5 of our starters have regressed in our recent stretch of games.

That is not going to cut it, good bench or not good bench.

Our starters set the tone and are on the floor when the game is in crunch time.

If 4 of our starters are playing worse or not up to par, no bench in the world is going to save this team.
It could also be argued that Pierce is the cause of the other starters shooting woes. Pierce is shooting 2 more shots a game than his season average over the last 5 games while playing 1.5 minutes less per game. Perhaps Pierce is taking it upon himself to shoot too much sometimes, actually a bunch of times, out of the flow of the offense. Because of this he is forcing the other players, who are all averaging the same amount of shots per game as their season averages, into getting the ball in areas they aren't comfortable shooting from or out of the normal ryhthm they are accustomed to.

Now does this mean I believe this is what's happening and hence all Pierce's fault? No. He's hot. He's feeling it lately. So he's trying to shoot more to help his team. It's what he's been accusomed to for years. But perhaps that wee bit of selfishness in his game is throwing the others out of balance.

I tend to think this is a chemistry and physchological problem rather than a these four guys are slumping and this one isn't situation.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2009, 07:03:28 PM »

Offline LB3533

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nick, I actually feel it is the exact opposite.

I feel the other starters are either shooting too poorly recently or are afraid to shoot it so Paul is taking more shots recently, and he probably isn't taking ENOUGH shots down the stretch of games.

I want to see Paul get more looks at the end of the game.

This team and especially the second unit, has a problem of not being able to find Paul or Ray Allen for that matter when each is in a groove.


Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2009, 07:19:28 PM »

Offline RAcker

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Paul needs to assert himself at certain times without a doubt, and the 1-3 play for him is ideal.  However, we are overusing it at the moment.  I think that Ray's shooting problems are partially because of fatigue and partially because of rhythm issues.  KG's problems are definitely fatigue in my mind.  Rondo just needs to get through the frustration of feeling like the shooting weak link.  Perk is also tired and a little banged up.

As for the bench...we just need more size in the frontcourt.  It wouldn't hurt if Doc would play Eddie with Gabe more in the backcourt as well. 

Bottom line for me is, all of these things are very fixable.  Thus, I'm not too concerned...yet.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2009, 10:36:43 PM »

Offline butterbeanlove

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No one seems to be running at the perimeter shooters or keeping their man in front of them anymore.



Nope. Last year we were running people off the 3-point line. Not so much, this year.

People can make excuses about fatigue (including Glenn Rivers, who is the last person on this continent who should be making excuses for this team) but the schedule was more or less just as brutal last year. We just don't have the same urgency.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2009, 10:43:05 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Pierce is just about the only player on this team with any urgency right now.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2009, 10:59:06 PM »

Offline ManUp

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nick, I actually feel it is the exact opposite.

I feel the other starters are either shooting too poorly recently or are afraid to shoot it so Paul is taking more shots recently, and he probably isn't taking ENOUGH shots down the stretch of games.

I want to see Paul get more looks at the end of the game.

This team and especially the second unit, has a problem of not being able to find Paul or Ray Allen for that matter when each is in a groove.

I feel the same, but I think the problem has more to do with our defense. It doesn't matter if Paul, Ray or KG is hitting the shots if we're just handing the points right back. Our offense and defense have both been horrible down the stretch in tight games. The thing is our identity is as a defensive team, and we don't look it one bit.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2009, 02:51:38 AM »

Offline LB3533

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ManUp,

You hit the nail right on the head.

We are not playing our type of basketball.

We are not setting the tone defensively.

If we were playing our normal way, the defensive way, we would win these tough, close, physical type games.

But yet, we are losing them down the stretch.

Also, I think as a team, our identity has become that of a team that "talks alot" and "pounds its chest"....the league has taken notice and is not giving "championship teams" the "proper respect" that it "should" be getting.

In fact, I think the refs are almost "going out of their way" to find something wrong against us for them to make that call.

Is anyone else getting this feeling from the officials?

And I am not referring to the officials "normal" horribleness.

Re: Is the whole better than the sum of its parts anymore?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2009, 03:19:55 AM »

Offline twinbree

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ManUp,

You hit the nail right on the head.

We are not playing our type of basketball.

We are not setting the tone defensively.

If we were playing our normal way, the defensive way, we would win these tough, close, physical type games.

But yet, we are losing them down the stretch.

Also, I think as a team, our identity has become that of a team that "talks alot" and "pounds its chest"....the league has taken notice and is not giving "championship teams" the "proper respect" that it "should" be getting.

In fact, I think the refs are almost "going out of their way" to find something wrong against us for them to make that call.

Is anyone else getting this feeling from the officials?

And I am not referring to the officials "normal" horribleness.

I definitely agree. The Cs are getting some shady officiating both at home and away which is strange because as the questionable calls typically tend to favor the superstar/home team/better team its bizarre that the champs with 3 stars consistently seems to get the shaft more often than not even at home. Refs aren't helping but the Celtics really didn't put on in a stellar 4 quarter defensive effort in any game the whole of December. The game at Toronto is the last I remember them looking like their 07/08 selves defensively. They need to get back to their bread and butter. These close games they are losing might not even get to be close if the defense is great from the beginning. Its great that Pierce has been playing consistently well lately but everyone else needs to find/learn that consistency or at the very least commit to getting defensive stops if PP is carrying the offense in crunch time.
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