Author Topic: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9  (Read 30183 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #225 on: November 09, 2012, 10:16:36 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
I'm encouraged by this team.  I feel like they are close to going on a nice little run soon. 

Fun game.  Nice job, Philly.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #226 on: November 09, 2012, 10:17:47 PM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30897
  • Tommy Points: 3765
  • Yup
I just don't see why excuses are being made for this team's poor play. Dallas has 9 new players, their best player is hurt, and they are 4-1. Just no excuse for this crap.

Who is making excuses?

They're playing like crap. They're not jelling.  But 2-3 or 4-1 starts mean very little in the long haul. 

Obviously if they play like this all year it will be an absolute nightmare, but are you really throwing in the towel after 5 games?  You have no faith that they'll improve over the course of a season?

To me, that's the joy of a season - watching how a team develops (or doesn't).  Even when they sucked, I still enjoyed seeing that process.

Bottom line is there is no excuse for this crap. I will repeat what I said the other night. This looks like a team of mismatched parts. Not going to be a true contender in its current form.

I can't conclude that this team won't get it together.  I am pretty sure you and others were counting the C's out early last year. 

They have been terrible but I am not certain that they won't work this out.

Yup

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #227 on: November 09, 2012, 10:28:03 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9673
  • Tommy Points: 325
Pretty good efforts from KG, Pierce, and Jet (nice to see his shooting rounding into form).

Rondo's 20 assists is a good thing, but his shooting was bad.

33 points from the bench is decent.

But the negatives still far outweigh the positives at this point.

I see so much potential in Jeff Green, but he seems clueless right now.

Defense? Pfff. Most of these guys are playing like they're brand new to basketball and never saw the pick-and-roll until two weeks ago.

I'm starting to wonder if a lot of these guys just can't get the defensive concepts ... like, can't mentally comprehend them. Because through 8 preseason games, 5 regular-season games, and already more practices than they had last season, I've seen no improvement in the team's pick-and-roll defense.

Boston is also allowing guys into the paint way too easily, even on non-pick-and-roll plays. KG is the only current rotation player whom opponents might think twice about going up against. We need Darko in there, plus more of Wilcox.

And Doc, if you're listening, the Bass/Sully combo is terrible. Put it to sleep. It gives up way too much size and shotblocking.

I also think the last few games should serve to temper our expectations for Sullinger. 4 points and 4 rebounds in a starting role isn't gonna cut it.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #228 on: November 09, 2012, 10:31:27 PM »

Offline Tradetime

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 605
  • Tommy Points: 115
positives:

rondo 5 games of consistent double-doubles
pierce: even when shooting bad can still get you 24 points
kg: still got it
lee: much better showing Doc didn't go to him much in the 2nd half
jet: finding his touch

found a lineup that works:
rondo-pierce-jet-kg-wilcox

Wilcox. When he's at center, we look a hell of a lot more cohesive as a unit out there. As soon as we succumb to "small ball," and Wilcox left the game, I knew we were done.

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #229 on: November 09, 2012, 10:32:46 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9673
  • Tommy Points: 325
And just to clarify, I still believe that these guys can get it together, even though I admit that their progression is going a lot slower than I'd anticipated or hoped for.

Which kinda makes it not fun as a fan. I mean, all summer long I looked forward to the new season, enjoying all the new acquisitions, seeing the firepower unleashed, but, as has been typical of this team in recent years, it seems that we'll be fortunate if we get a couple of good months toward the end of the season, and everything between now and then will be nearly as bad as not having basketball.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #230 on: November 09, 2012, 10:41:24 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9673
  • Tommy Points: 325
Oh, and one more thing: What's up with struggling teams having their breakout game against the Cs?

Mike Gorman said it best during tonight's broadcast (and I'm paraphrasing here):

"There's a lot of guys not playing well this season who play well against Boston."

That was about the time that the slumping Nick Young started draining threes.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #231 on: November 09, 2012, 10:43:45 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
I'd like to see them open up the offense some more. More pace. More pick and rolls. More dribble penetration. Similar to what San Antonio did a couple of years ago.

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #232 on: November 09, 2012, 10:48:56 PM »

Offline JoT

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 84
I didn't watch the game but from looking at the comments I can tell
1) Doc is still in love with small ball (Im seriously trying to understand why is he putting Bass and Jared in TOGETHER)
2) Jeff was a no show... again (I'm trying to give him a chance and I'm trying to root for him but either he has to show up or I hope Danny sends him off somewhere for another player who's better)
3) the fact that Rondo had 20 assists in this mess of an offense is amazing within itself.
Also he's one of the only three players ever to consecutively have 10+ assists with Stockton and Magic.
4) KG has not only shown up but he is still one of if not the most important players on the team.

All in all its 5 games in, but something needs to be done. Jeff needs to watch the interviews from the summer, watch his preseason games heck go back to Georgetown or something and bring the assertiveness and aggressiveness he promised.
Also why do they have big men if they are not going to be used. I just wish the small ball would stop already or at least limit it.

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #233 on: November 09, 2012, 11:00:17 PM »

Offline Kuberski1

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 312
  • Tommy Points: 26
Look decent in stretches in the 2nd half.  Line-ups need work.

Start: Rondo, Lee, PP, Bass, KG
Bench: Barbosa, Terry, Green, Sully, Wilcox

No more Bass and Sully manning the 4-5....too weak on interior D.  Consider Darko for Sully on the 2nd team, pairing with Wilcox.

Still hopeful, but man was that bad...

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #234 on: November 09, 2012, 11:01:32 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
The good thing I can take out of this is at at least we are playing well in portions - the first couple of games we played attrocious the entire game.

Against Washington for example we were pretty solid in the first quarter, third quarter and in overtime.  We sucked  anus in the second and fourth.

Today was similar - we sucked badly in the first half, but we showed some real fight in the second.

I don't think I need to point too much at the things we did badly in this game, because they are obvious.  Instead I'm going to mainly point out the things I liked:

1. The Big Three
Kevin Garnett has been outstanding - he's pretty much playing at the same intense level as he did in the playoffs last season, despite it only being 5 games in. Love this guy!

Rondo has been pretty spectacular as well.  Yeah he's made some questionable decisions here and there but his scoring and assists are up, his turnovers are down and his FG% and 3PT% are both way up (though he didn't shoot well tonight).  You can't argue with 20 assists - that's 40% of our scoring tonight coming off of Rondo's assists.

Despite the number of complaints about him, Pierce has been strong as well.  He's struggling with his midrange jumper, but he did so last year as well.  The important thing is that when his shot isn't falling he's finding other ways to score / contribute (24 points on 8-16 shooting, along with 5 assists and 4 rebouds).

2. Terry
He started his first 3 games pretty slow, but the last two games Terry has given us the type of offense I had been expecting from him.  He is averaging 14.5 over the last two games on 12-22 FG (55%), 4-9 3PT (45%) and 5-5 FT (100%).  He's also averaging 2 ASS:TO over those two games, and he's plays some intense defense in some of that time as well.  He has been pretty invisible in the first half of games, but he's been coming out pretty strong in the second half.

3. Barbosa
Barbosa hasn't gotten a huge number of minutes and he hasn't been especially aggressive on offense, but overall I like what he's given us.  He's plays surprisingly solid defense (which I didn't expect), he's scored very efficiently, and he hasn't made any stupid mistakes.  Plus he's still fast as lightning out there.

4. Wilcox
Wilcox has been fantastic.  He was non-existent in his first 2 or 3 games due to conditioning, but he has absolutely made the most of every minute on the court.  Doc has been steadilly increasing those minutes (he played 12 tonight) and every minute Wilcox is on the court, that's one extra minute that we don't have Sully or Bass playing center.

5. Bass
Bass hass been decent, if not outstanding.  He's been surprisingly inconsistent (usually he's the model of consistency) and has been giving us excellent games followed by mediocre games.  Prior to today he has been averaging 7.5 rebounds per 30 minutes (as opposed to 5.9 RP30 last season) which is s big improvement.  He's also been more aggressive attacking the basket which I like. His jumper hasn't been quite as lethal as last year though, but I'm hoping he'll get that back.  He adds some aggressiveness to the second unit which I think works very well for us.

6. Proper Small Ball
One thing that I learned today is that if we do play small ball, it needs to be proper small ball. 

The potential benefits of small ball are two-fold:

1. You increase your quickness on defensive rotations
2. Nore perimeter shooting to help stretch the floor

With Sullinger at the 5 and Bass at the 4 we are not playing proper small ball, because:

1. Sully doesn't really stretch the floor
2. Sully + Bass doesn't give is any quickness advantage

The result is that we get all the negatives of playing small ball (i.e. we are smaller) but none of the benefits (we lack scoring and our defense sucks).

Towards the end of the game today Doc went proper small with KG/Wilcox at C, Pierce/Green at PF and three guards (Terry/Rondo/Barbosa/Lee) on the perimeter.  As soon as he did this our perimeter defense improved dramatically, the quick hands of our bigs were disrupting their interior offense, our perimeter shooters helped to spread the floor, and we were out running on the fast breaks. 

If Doc wants to play small ball THIS is the type of rotation he needs to go with.

More impressive is that it was the first time we've seen Doc go with that type of lineup this season, and they it already fit like clockwork.  There were a few minutes there where our defense really looked like Celtics D.

Now, for the bad...

Somebody needs to tell Sullinger and Green that we are still in the preseason. 

Sullinger was playing with a real sense of aggression in the preseason, like he had nothing to loose.  He was going hard after rebounds, boxing out constantly, wasn't afraid to bang inside, and was doing a great job of getting to the line.  Regular season he's been much more passive - it's almost like he knows he's a rookie, so he needs to take a backseat and let the veterans show him how it's done.  Hell no! It was his aggression and confidence in the preseason that made him look like a 5 year veteran out there, and he needs to get back to that if we are going to be an elite team.

Similar words for Green - I get the feeling his issues right now are all confidence related.  In the preseason when games didn't count, he was never shy about taking his shot.  Even if he had a guy on him he would try to blow by him on defense, or he'd try to post him up, or with shorter guys he'd pull up and shoot over them.  It seemed like he was playing relatively fearless because he knew the games didn't matter, and he was playing great as a result.  Regular season and now the games count - as soon as he touches the ball he holds it and waits...then when a defender comes within 5 feet of him he picks up the ball, holds it long enough for the defense to set up, and then tries to throw a bail-out pass to KG or Rondo.  It looks to me like he's afraid of having his shot blocked, afraid of missing or afraid of being seen as a ballhog. None of that here!! He needs to pretend these are pickup games - I don't care if he turns the ball over, if he clangs off the front rim or if he doesn't seen an open guy in the corner...he needs to look to score every time he touches the ball, and the rest will come.   Last season Doc came to KG with the '20 shot' rule - every night he needed to take 20 shot attempts. He needs to go to Green with a '10 shot' rule - if he doesn't take at least 10 FG attempts every night, he's getting benched.

Lee has been pretty unspectacular, but I didn't expect a huge amount from him...he was always going to be a filler rather than a key piece IMHO.  Green and Sullinger however are key pieces to this team - we desperately need the skillsets they bring to the game.  As those guys go, so will this team.

December 15 is a good date.  It's a full month from now, so by that time we will be able to see once and for all what these guys are made of.  I couldn't give up on them just yet because it's way too early, but if Sully and Green haven't picked up their game by December 15 I'd be sending them out (along with possibly Lee) in an attempt to get a proper starting big who isn't afraid to play with aggression - Millsap, Smith, Varejao, Hickson, Sanders, Laundry...take your pick. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 11:07:36 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #235 on: November 09, 2012, 11:03:51 PM »

Offline Clench123

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3055
  • Tommy Points: 251
Is it time to panic yet?  Because I'm about to start freaking out.  This is just unacceptable.  Utterly ridiculous.  I hope they get it together

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #236 on: November 09, 2012, 11:24:21 PM »

Offline ummidkme

  • Payton Pritchard
  • Posts: 115
  • Tommy Points: 12
@GregPayne_ESPN: Rondo on when KG leaves the game: "It's chaos."

Sad, funny and true.

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #237 on: November 09, 2012, 11:52:32 PM »

Offline Atzar

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9136
  • Tommy Points: 1649
The team needs to find an identity when KG sits.  If it can't stop anybody, then it needs to put its best offensive unit on the floor and make sure it can score with people.  As it is, the entire gameplan just crumbles and we can't win consistently that way.

Not worried about Lee or Green.  They'll get it going.  In Green's case, I think they need to make an effort to find him more minutes and feature him in the second unit's offense.  He just looks like an afterthought at this point.  Put him in a position where he needs to be aggressive to fill his role. 

The biggest problem from my position is that this is still a jumpshooting team.  They just don't get many shots at the rim, and that's been the case for the last couple of years.  They desperately need to find a way to get easy points.  Rondo, Pierce, KG, Sully, Jet and Green all have the ability to get shots in the paint.  Bradley, when he returns, can also score in the paint off of cuts.  They need to utilize all of these options to generate some better shots.  Every open shot is a long jumpshot for this team right now.

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #238 on: November 09, 2012, 11:52:44 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11134
  • Tommy Points: 1304
  • I'm a Paul Heyman guy.
Look decent in stretches in the 2nd half.  Line-ups need work.

Start: Rondo, Lee, PP, Bass, KG
Bench: Barbosa, Terry, Green, Sully, Wilcox

No more Bass and Sully manning the 4-5....too weak on interior D.  Consider Darko for Sully on the 2nd team, pairing with Wilcox.

Still hopeful, but man was that bad...

This. I still don't know why we're going slow-small ball. We have the bigs, Doc has to use them.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Sixers (2-2) at Celtics (2-2) 11/9
« Reply #239 on: November 10, 2012, 02:06:05 AM »

Offline j804

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9188
  • Tommy Points: 3060
  • BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS
It's too bad Doc is stubborn, in postgame he said Darko will remain on the end of the bench and won't be seeing minutes. He loves his small ball ::)
"7ft PG. Rondo leaves and GUESS WHAT? We got a BIGGER point guard!"-Tommy on Olynyk