The Jamal Murray Thread

[budMovin]

I think he can play point to the same capacity that Marcus can. He didn't play it much because Kentucky had a 5-9 guard who is an elite ball handler that cannot play shooting guard. I know Kentucky didn't really develop Murray's PG skills because it just wasn't a fit for the team.

[KG Living Legend]

I call you, and raise you:


 Crimson are you serious bro, Show me highlights from Buddy Hield's freshman year than we can talk, oh wait there is none because  Buddy avd a whopping 7 points per game.
46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

[KG Living Legend]

I wouldn't compare Hield to Reddick.  And I wouldn't compare Murray to Young.  Let's not get carried away with unwarranted comparisons. 

If you want a little more size go with Hield.  If you want a little more PG potential go with Murray.
Both fantastic shooters and both will succeed.

I don't think either has a hint of PG potential personally, but I worry more for Murray because no way he can defend NBA point guards.

If that's true, then that's a knockout factor for me.  The C's have built their reputation as a stingy defensive team.  I want them to continue that and add shooting where possible.

 That is absolutely not true. Murray has played point guard his whole life except last year. Watch the Pan Am highlights  I posted vs USA, he played point the entire second half and led team to victory.

 We have Smart and Avery to guard the PG, it's a big reason to take him over Buddy, Hield has 0% chance of ever playing PG.

 Murray has a very good BBIQ, runs the P&R very well, a much, much better ball handler than Hield.

 Curry in college only Avg 2.8 apg his freshman year. Murray 2.2, mainly because they both were asked to play off guard.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

People making the Brandon Roy and CJ McCullum comparisons, but I see a bit more of Lillard in this kid. The mid-range game, hesitations, craftiness, etc.

Llilard averaged 4 assists as a senior at Weber State, but transitioned to point guard fine. Murray was a point guard in high school and would have been at Kentucky without Ullis.

[budMovin]

People making the Brandon Roy and CJ McCullum comparisons, but I see a bit more of Lillard in this kid. The mid-range game, hesitations, craftiness, etc.

Llilard averaged 4 assists as a senior at Weber State, but transitioned to point guard fine. Murray was a point guard in high school and would have been at Kentucky without Ullis.

A bit more size, but a bit less athleticism.

[KG Living Legend]

I wouldn't compare Hield to Reddick.  And I wouldn't compare Murray to Young.  Let's not get carried away with unwarranted comparisons. 

If you want a little more size go with Hield.  If you want a little more PG potential go with Murray.
Both fantastic shooters and both will succeed.

I don't think either has a hint of PG potential personally, but I worry more for Murray because no way he can defend NBA point guards.

I don't think Isaiah can defend NBA point guards, but no one is worried about him.

And Murray has much more point guard potential than Hield. Murray's future in this league is going to be as a combo guard who can play either position for large stretches at a time. Though, I agree that he will play more SG than he will play PG.

 Well said Boston you get it. Tp to you and Crimson, to Crimson for making this entertaining. God I love draft debates. You will eat crow though 2years into Murray's career.

[The One]

So who do the Celtics trade to fit Murray in?

[PhoSita]

I went on BRef to try and find similar freshman seasons for guards to what Murray did this season.

18-20 pts per game, 50%+ on twos, 38%+ on threes, fewer than 3 assists per game.

The names that came up were Kevin Martin, CJ McCollum, Tyler Hall (this year), and Steph Curry.

Obviously that's a pretty good range of outcomes.  At the very least you can say he had a really excellent freshman season.  Those other guys played at much less heralded schools than Murray.


I dunno.  Murray passes the eye test for me as a pure scorer.  My worry with him is what I've heard from draft analysts on podcasts etc about his ability to turn the corner in the pick and roll, defend off the ball, get to the rim, and create for others.  He'll need to do all of those things to become more than a sixth man or one-way scoring starter (e.g. McCollum and Martin).


I would much, much, much rather take Murray than Hield.  What Murray did as a freshman at Kentucky is far more impressive and exceptional from a historical perspective than what Hield did as a senior.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I call you, and raise you:

46 points vs Kansas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

37 points vs Oregon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOpw-WTPavc

39 points vs Iowa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLS-BcPGcY

32 points vs LSU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMSFYVKH1rY

36 points vs VCU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nBZuTEFxlQ

31 points vs Kansas State:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69K6XZB6pMg

33 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLzUreOk-4

30 points vs Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FByRw7f9CNU


I would keep going, but I don't think there is much need.  With all due respect to Murray, he doesn't even come close.  After watching Hield play, it makes Murry looks like he's 40 years old retiree.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/buddy-hield-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jj-redick-1.html

I honestly think JJ is a perfect comp for Buddy, and their senior stats are very, very close to each other. And that's not to say that JJ isn't a good player, but I'd expect more out of a top-3 overall pick.

I also think it's unfair to post videos like that without also putting a disclaimer out there that one is a freshman while the other is a senior.

Shooting ability and scoring numbers are quite literally the ONLY things that Hield and Reddick have in common as players.  Hield offers many things that Reddick never did - such as length, athleticism, physicality/toughness, ability to score in transition, ability to blow past fairly athletic players and get to the basket, etc.

Murray is a shooting guard who lacks athleticism, lacks ball handling skills, lacks passing ability, cannot defend to save his life, and who's only translatable NBA skill is three point shooting.  Yet he's being hyped purely because he has a nice jumper, and because he scored a lot in college at a young age. 

Sound like somebody else - James Young perhaps?  Murray has James Young written all over him - except Young at least had legit NBA size and length on his side...Murray doesn't even have that. 

When are people going to learn that youth does not always equal potential?

He's more of a point guard than a shooting guard, but he played where his team needed him to because Ullis couldn't play off ball. The highlights of the USA-Canada games shows how he can distribute.

He's a better ball-handler than Hield, and probably a better passer. I don't agree that he can't defend, either. I think his defense won't be elite, but neither will Hield's.

Oh, and there is a big difference between 14 ppg and 20 ppg - the difference between Young's scoring and Murray's.

Anyone with a basketball eye can see that Murray has finishing ability, floaters, pull-ups, and a three point game, all as the 2nd (?) youngest player in the draft.

[sdceltsfan]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the "lack of quickness/first step/explosiveness" criticisms Murray is getting.

Is it just me or does he take much longer strides on fast breaks and cutting to the rim? Seems like he is just a far more decisive player with his motion and ball fakes, and knows the point to commit to a move when he's driving far sooner than Hield. Murray's court awareness and natural spacing makes up for his lack of elite athleticism. Plus, he's also only 19, so strength and conditioning could potentially launch this guy into all-star quality measurables.

[KG Living Legend]

 Tp to the last two posters, and basically anyone that tells me what I already know. Murray is a hell of a prospect. The fact that Crimson is calling him a 40 year old man is hilarious!

[RebusRankin]

The only issue I'd have with the Celtics taking Murray is we have an abundance of guards. That said, we can always trade somebody else.

[loco_91]

The only issue I'd have with the Celtics taking Murray is we have an abundance of guards. That said, we can always trade somebody else.

I think we have a fine number of guards. Just slide him into ET's rotation slot, minus maybe 5-10 minutes for Rozier. Young and Hunter haven't shown that they deserve minutes. Plus, Smart can play some SF.

[Smokeeye123]

The only issue I'd have with the Celtics taking Murray is we have an abundance of guards. That said, we can always trade somebody else.

Avery Bradley for Ibaka straight up?

[alldaboston]

How can anyone compare Young with Murray, other than the fact that they were both freshmen at Kentucky.