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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on February 17, 2018, 11:34:54 AM

Title: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: KG Living Legend on February 17, 2018, 11:34:54 AM

 What I mean by this is we will not win this year or the next two years when he will make almost 30 million per year.

 If he resigns on a more team friendly deal then it's possible. That is the time frame where I expect us to be serious title contenders, but we will need to sign a new star at that point. Is Davis a free agent in two and a half years?

 That would be perfect.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Donoghus on February 17, 2018, 11:37:03 AM
This is a scorching hot take. 

If they don't win a title, it'll most likely be due to talent, not cap woes.   Celtics have plenty of team friendly contracts at the moment which more than compensate for however overpaid people might think Horford is.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Monkhouse on February 17, 2018, 11:39:21 AM

 What I mean by this is we will not win this year or the next two years when he will make almost 30 million per year.

 If he resigns on a more team friendly deal then it's possible. That is the time frame where I expect us to be serious title contenders, but we will need to sign a new star at that point. Is Davis a free agent in two and a half years?

 That would be perfect.

Another Horford hate thread..... *Yawn*

By the way Davis is signed on for 3 more years, with 20-21 being a player option...
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Roy H. on February 17, 2018, 11:40:50 AM
The reason we won’t win in the next two years is due to GSW, not Horford.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: jambr380 on February 17, 2018, 11:45:56 AM
Well, we are kind-of between a rock and hard place on this one. While I kind-of agree, there is really no way for us to sign another big name while keeping what we have. Kyrie's contract is up after next season, Horford's/Jaylen's in 2020, and Hayward's/Tatum's in 2021.

We may be able to re-sign Horford to a more team-friendly contract, but we will still be left with what we have above if we are lucky. Leaving out Horford and assuming we don't re-sign Hayward (big assumption), we are still going to be at 3 max contracts in Kyrie, Jaylen, and Tatum. With the luxury tax and repeater penalties looming on the horizon, the only other option is a trade.

If we trade, say: Horford, Jaylen, Rozier, and the Sac pick for Davis and filler, then we increase our top-level talent on max contracts which is probably the best thing you can do in this climate of insanely high repeater tax penalties.

I will be very very interested to see how Ainge manipulates the salary cap these next few years which should coincide with GSW becoming slightly less dominant.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Monkhouse on February 17, 2018, 11:51:46 AM
Well, we are kind-of between a rock and hard place on this one. While I kind-of agree, there is really no way for us to sign another big name while keeping what we have. Kyrie's contract is up after next season, Horford's/Jaylen's in 2020, and Hayward's/Tatum's in 2021.

We may be able to re-sign Horford to a more team-friendly contract, but we will still be left with what we have above if we are lucky. Leaving out Horford and assuming we don't re-sign Hayward (big assumption), we are still going to be at 3 max contracts in Kyrie, Jaylen, and Tatum. With the luxury tax and repeater penalties looming on the horizon, the only other option is a trade.

If we trade, say: Horford, Jaylen, Rozier, and the Sac pick for Davis and filler, then we increase our top-level talent on max contracts which is probably the best thing you can do in this climate of insanely high repeater tax penalties.

I will be very very interested to see how Ainge manipulates the salary cap these next few years which should coincide with GSW becoming slightly less dominant.

The problem is Cavs are going to face one heck of a luxury tax/repeater bill if LeBron does indeed re-sign, and they re-sign Hood to most likely 16-20 million year contract.

Same goes for GSW, and even though Klay has expressed desire to retire in GSW, and even though he has stated numerous times to take a pay cut. I just don't see GSW staying together. I think it makes more sense to keep Bell over Green. I think Bell will eventually become in the same mold as Green, while not able to be the consistent heart and soul of the team, he's already shaping up to become an defensive enforcer and monster.

Keeping Klay over Green in today's NBA makes more modicum of sensibility considering breaking up the Slasph brothers would be inconceivable.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Phantom255x on February 17, 2018, 12:20:47 PM
Jesus... we haven't even seen this team work as a fully healthy unit (w/Hayward) and we're making these assumptions??

Sure, you can say he's not worth 30M/Year, but lets be real, even if you let him go or signed him back on a team friendly deal, I don't think you could add a Davis or another star via FA without also trading away a Kyrie (who is up for an extension after next year). Want to make that sacrifice?
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Big333223 on February 17, 2018, 01:32:03 PM
Why the negativity?

If Jaylen and Jayson continue to grow, next year's starting lineup with Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford could be incredible. Make some tweaks around the bench and I don't see any reason that team couldn't win a championship in '19 or '20.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: nickagneta on February 17, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
Why the negativity?

If Jaylen and Jayson continue to grow, next year's starting lineup with Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford could be incredible. Make some tweaks around the bench and I don't see any reason that team couldn't win a championship in '19 or '20.
This is where I am at.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: iadera on February 17, 2018, 01:49:25 PM
Too much negativity around. After the All Star-break we're gonna be a new fresh team with old habits form the beginning of the season, I do not doubt in Brad at all. We just needed a break, that's all.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 17, 2018, 02:15:56 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/iQGaM35rHA3Be/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on February 17, 2018, 02:33:43 PM
Big Al Horford does NOT get enough credit for being the Anchor of our Defense.

Marcus being out hurts, no doubt, but Big Al simply doesn't get enough credit it seems.

He is one of the most well-rounded Bigs in the NBA right now.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: TheTruthFot18 on February 17, 2018, 02:52:45 PM
Quote
Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract

Quote
If he resigns on a more team friendly deal then it's possible.

LOL WAT
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Monkhouse on February 17, 2018, 02:57:07 PM
I love this forum, but the redundancy of pessimistic and just flat-out false information, (not gonna state any names, but someone created a thread that actually said Smart was better than Horford,) has really just upset me. I think I'm going to take a month long break from this website. It also saddens me that someone like Horford is so underappreciated here.... Can you believe that several years ago, we had Sullinger, Lee, Mickey, Jerebko, KO, and several others as our big man rotation? Hands down, I take Horford at his max even now compared to any of the big men on our team from 2015-2016.

Big Al Horford does NOT get enough credit for being the Anchor of our Defense.

Marcus being out hurts, no doubt, but Big Al simply doesn't get enough credit it seems.

He is one of the most well-rounded Bigs in the NBA right now.

Agreed. This guy is literally in the conversation for DPOY right now. He's shooting a blistering 43.6% from 3, and averaging 5 APG which leads our team.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: KGs Knee on February 17, 2018, 03:12:51 PM
Big Al Horford does NOT get enough credit for being the Anchor of our Defense.

Marcus being out hurts, no doubt, but Big Al simply doesn't get enough credit it seems.

He is one of the most well-rounded Bigs in the NBA right now.

Agreed. This guy is literally in the conversation for DPOY right now. He's shooting a blistering 43.6% from 3, and averaging 5 APG which leads our team.

For some reason, for which I cannot understand, certain people feel PPG is the only measure by which a player should be judged.

It's narrow-minded, and fails to account for all the other ways a player can have a major impact on the court.  But such is the way it goes when that's all that gets hyped by ESPN and the likes.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on February 17, 2018, 03:31:24 PM

 What I mean by this is we will not win this year or the next two years when he will make almost 30 million per year.

 If he resigns on a more team friendly deal then it's possible. That is the time frame where I expect us to be serious title contenders, but we will need to sign a new star at that point. Is Davis a free agent in two and a half years?

 That would be perfect.
Can I take back some Tommy Boys on this post.  Al Is in the All Star game. Top 24 player and you write this post. Wow!!! Back to Reddit for me because this place goes down every single day.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: PhoSita on February 17, 2018, 04:36:55 PM
I mean, sure, probably not. Are you implying that there is some kind of causation there? The Celtics are almost certainly not winning a title in the next two to three years anyway. Al Horford is part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: celticsclay on February 17, 2018, 05:01:20 PM
I mean, sure, probably not. Are you implying that there is some kind of causation there? The Celtics are almost certainly not winning a title in the next two to three years anyway. Al Horford is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Agree phosita. He is an allstar and there was some debate on him starting. He isn't the problem
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 17, 2018, 06:08:30 PM
Boy, this was an optimistic thread   :)
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: KG Living Legend on February 17, 2018, 08:47:09 PM
I love this forum, but the redundancy of pessimistic and just flat-out false information, (not gonna state any names, but someone created a thread that actually said Smart was better than Horford,) has really just upset me. I think I'm going to take a month long break from this website. It also saddens me that someone like Horford is so underappreciated here.... Can you believe that several years ago, we had Sullinger, Lee, Mickey, Jerebko, KO, and several others as our big man rotation? Hands down, I take Horford at his max even now compared to any of the big men on our team from 2015-2016.

Big Al Horford does NOT get enough credit for being the Anchor of our Defense.

Marcus being out hurts, no doubt, but Big Al simply doesn't get enough credit it seems.

He is one of the most well-rounded Bigs in the NBA right now.

Agreed. This guy is literally in the conversation for DPOY right now. He's shooting a blistering 43.6% from 3, and averaging 5 APG which leads our team.



 Hey Monk. I appreciate you and respect you. It's not a hate Horford thread, it's just more of a matter of fact thread, like Roy said we won't be able to beat GS the next two years, so while we can wait. Tatum, can Brown, and be Hayward won't be ready to win for be another Two years. Kyrie will be about 28 when we win our first title IMO.

 Horford is still a key piece in turning it around. He just might not get to see the ring that's all.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: Surferdad on February 18, 2018, 09:20:49 AM
I love this forum, but the redundancy of pessimistic and just flat-out false information, (not gonna state any names, but someone created a thread that actually said Smart was better than Horford,) has really just upset me. I think I'm going to take a month long break from this website. It also saddens me that someone like Horford is so underappreciated here.... Can you believe that several years ago, we had Sullinger, Lee, Mickey, Jerebko, KO, and several others as our big man rotation? Hands down, I take Horford at his max even now compared to any of the big men on our team from 2015-2016.

Big Al Horford does NOT get enough credit for being the Anchor of our Defense.

Marcus being out hurts, no doubt, but Big Al simply doesn't get enough credit it seems.

He is one of the most well-rounded Bigs in the NBA right now.

Agreed. This guy is literally in the conversation for DPOY right now. He's shooting a blistering 43.6% from 3, and averaging 5 APG which leads our team.



 Hey Monk. I appreciate you and respect you. It's not a hate Horford thread, it's just more of a matter of fact thread, like Roy said we won't be able to beat GS the next two years, so while we can wait. Tatum, can Brown, and be Hayward won't be ready to win for be another Two years. Kyrie will be about 28 when we win our first title IMO.

 Horford is still a key piece in turning it around. He just might not get to see the ring that's all.
So I take it you favor trading Horford for A. Davis?  Otherwise, I see no basis for your conclusion or for your original premise.

I'm with monk on this one.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: CelticD on February 18, 2018, 09:45:39 AM
I don't think so either but I don't think it'd be because of his contract. It's because KD went to GS. Durant was reported to have wanted to play alongside Horford, so Horford's signing made sense. Since Durant chose GS, it made the C's tie up salary for above average but not elite talent or max level talent.

This will restrict the C's from making moves in the future and by the time his contract expires, the C's gotta get ready to pay the youngins.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: PhoSita on February 18, 2018, 11:03:39 AM
Does anybody think horford wont be a valuable contributor in his mid thirties? Imagine David west but with three point range.

I could definitely see Al reupping with the Celts for a reduced salary in a couple years and contributing to a title run as the fifth or sixth man.
Title: Re: Celtics will not win a title with Horford under contract
Post by: jambr380 on February 18, 2018, 11:33:27 AM
Does anybody think horford wont be a valuable contributor in his mid thirties? Imagine David west but with three point range.

I could definitely see Al reupping with the Celts for a reduced salary in a couple years and contributing to a title run as the fifth or sixth man.

I think 100% of Cs fans would be psyched with this outcome. I guess it all depends on what 'reduced salary' means to Horford and Ainge and if they can come to an agreement that works for both of them.