Shams: Porzingis to Boston?

[Kernewek]

Like someone else said, Porzingis likes scoring. He's going to want to score, and luckily we have guys who can help him do that while still getting theirs.

What I am worried about is more reflected in the other thread - I don't know if we're really going to have much improvement in terms of ball movement, so I think there's a possibility that the only visible offensive difference might be a few more KP pick and rolls before a three point attempt.

[gouki88]

Like someone else said, Porzingis likes scoring. He's going to want to score, and luckily we have guys who can help him do that while still getting theirs.

What I am worried about is more reflected in the other thread - I don't know if we're really going to have much improvement in terms of ball movement, so I think there's a possibility that the only visible offensive difference might be a few more KP pick and rolls before a three point attempt.

The ball movement improvement discussion is an interesting one for me. Smart is a loss there, for sure. As is Horford's decline.

But Brogdon & White have both shown capable of being 5.5-7APG guys when given more ball-handling & creation responsibilities than they have been in their time as Celtics. I think Brogdon is probably best used as a score-first bench piece, but I could see some good playmaking from White. I think we will see Tatum improve his passing too, as we saw in Smart's absence. It will be an interesting task for Joe & co

[cman88]

Like someone else said, Porzingis likes scoring. He's going to want to score, and luckily we have guys who can help him do that while still getting theirs.

What I am worried about is more reflected in the other thread - I don't know if we're really going to have much improvement in terms of ball movement, so I think there's a possibility that the only visible offensive difference might be a few more KP pick and rolls before a three point attempt.

The ball movement improvement discussion is an interesting one for me. Smart is a loss there, for sure. As is Horford's decline.

But Brogdon & White have both shown capable of being 5.5-7APG guys when given more ball-handling & creation responsibilities than they have been in their time as Celtics. I think Brogdon is probably best used as a score-first bench piece, but I could see some good playmaking from White. I think we will see Tatum improve his passing too, as we saw in Smart's absence. It will be an interesting task for Joe & co

it's not like the Celtics moved the ball very well even with Smart. they stood around while smart dribbled for 15 seconds and then maybe one pass and shoot.

the only time they really moved the ball around was October - All-star break. lack of passing was a big reason we lost to Miami. pretty easy to defend when the other team walks the ball up and stands around with no movement.

[Kernewek]

Like someone else said, Porzingis likes scoring. He's going to want to score, and luckily we have guys who can help him do that while still getting theirs.

What I am worried about is more reflected in the other thread - I don't know if we're really going to have much improvement in terms of ball movement, so I think there's a possibility that the only visible offensive difference might be a few more KP pick and rolls before a three point attempt.

The ball movement improvement discussion is an interesting one for me. Smart is a loss there, for sure. As is Horford's decline.

But Brogdon & White have both shown capable of being 5.5-7APG guys when given more ball-handling & creation responsibilities than they have been in their time as Celtics. I think Brogdon is probably best used as a score-first bench piece, but I could see some good playmaking from White. I think we will see Tatum improve his passing too, as we saw in Smart's absence. It will be an interesting task for Joe & co

it's not like the Celtics moved the ball very well even with Smart. they stood around while smart dribbled for 15 seconds and then maybe one pass and shoot.

the only time they really moved the ball around was October - All-star break. lack of passing was a big reason we lost to Miami. pretty easy to defend when the other team walks the ball up and stands around with no movement.

Agreed - that's one of my concerns, that we really only have two guys (Tatum & White) who consistently makes the extra pass now, because we traded Smart:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&dir=D&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ

[Celtics2021]

Like someone else said, Porzingis likes scoring. He's going to want to score, and luckily we have guys who can help him do that while still getting theirs.

What I am worried about is more reflected in the other thread - I don't know if we're really going to have much improvement in terms of ball movement, so I think there's a possibility that the only visible offensive difference might be a few more KP pick and rolls before a three point attempt.

The ball movement improvement discussion is an interesting one for me. Smart is a loss there, for sure. As is Horford's decline.

But Brogdon & White have both shown capable of being 5.5-7APG guys when given more ball-handling & creation responsibilities than they have been in their time as Celtics. I think Brogdon is probably best used as a score-first bench piece, but I could see some good playmaking from White. I think we will see Tatum improve his passing too, as we saw in Smart's absence. It will be an interesting task for Joe & co

it's not like the Celtics moved the ball very well even with Smart. they stood around while smart dribbled for 15 seconds and then maybe one pass and shoot.

the only time they really moved the ball around was October - All-star break. lack of passing was a big reason we lost to Miami. pretty easy to defend when the other team walks the ball up and stands around with no movement.

Agreed - that's one of my concerns, that we really only have two guys (Tatum & White) who consistently makes the extra pass now, because we traded Smart:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/passing?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738&dir=D&sort=AST_TO_PASS_PCT_ADJ

One of my hopes is that the change in style necessitated by acquiring Porzingis will help get players out of some bad habits.  The geometry of the court will change with Porzingis often setting up around the free throw line, and hopefully that will re-engage Jaylen’s court vision, as well at Tatum’s, which was maybe overly reliant on his expectations of familiar personnel the last couple of seasons.

It’s not necessary to have more ball movement, but rather more productive ball movement.  The Celtics were very predictable with what they wanted to do, because they’d been doing it so long, and that made it less useful.

[tenn_smoothie]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

Exactly. If we could get the right return, I just feel that moving Jaylen would help this team on many levels, on and off the court.
Maybe a stud backup center who can score a little and is a maniac rebounder and defender with a mean streak plus a pure knock-down 3 shooter.

[Kernewek]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

Exactly. If we could get the right return, I just feel that moving Jaylen would help this team on many levels, on and off the court.
Maybe a stud backup center who can score a little and is a maniac rebounder and defender with a mean streak plus a pure knock-down 3 shooter.

Who is this player?

[cman88]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

Exactly. If we could get the right return, I just feel that moving Jaylen would help this team on many levels, on and off the court.
Maybe a stud backup center who can score a little and is a maniac rebounder and defender with a mean streak plus a pure knock-down 3 shooter.

Who is this player?

there is no player of Browns talent level. hope some of these fans get ready because Brad is signing Brown to a supermax deal...

[Roy H.]

As I distract myself before free agency...

Which of these would have been a better trade?

Option A:  The trade we made

Option B:

BOS receives:  Tyus Jones, John Collins, GSW #1, Memphis #1 (trade for four seconds)

MEM receives:  Smart

ATL receives:  expirings (Gallo, Muscala, Kornet), #2

I think I prefer the trade we made, because KP is such a weapon and he contributes on defense more than Collins has shown.  His size is going to present matchup problems for opposing teams.  But, there's something to be said about spreading out that max salary between two good players instead of one star, particularly in light of injury concerns.

[footey]

As I distract myself before free agency...

Which of these would have been a better trade?

Option A:  The trade we made

Option B:

BOS receives:  Tyus Jones, John Collins, GSW #1, Memphis #1 (trade for four seconds)

MEM receives:  Smart

ATL receives:  expirings (Gallo, Muscala, Kornet), #2

I think I prefer the trade we made, because KP is such a weapon and he contributes on defense more than Collins has shown.  His size is going to present matchup problems for opposing teams.  But, there's something to be said about spreading out that max salary between two good players instead of one star, particularly in light of injury concerns.

Trade A.  Best player.  Do it 10/10 times.

[greg683x]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

Exactly. If we could get the right return, I just feel that moving Jaylen would help this team on many levels, on and off the court.
Maybe a stud backup center who can score a little and is a maniac rebounder and defender with a mean streak plus a pure knock-down 3 shooter.

Who is this player?

Sounds like a younger Al Horford

[Who]

As I distract myself before free agency...

Which of these would have been a better trade?

Option A:  The trade we made

Option B:

BOS receives:  Tyus Jones, John Collins, GSW #1, Memphis #1 (trade for four seconds)

MEM receives:  Smart

ATL receives:  expirings (Gallo, Muscala, Kornet), #2

I think I prefer the trade we made, because KP is such a weapon and he contributes on defense more than Collins has shown.  His size is going to present matchup problems for opposing teams.  But, there's something to be said about spreading out that max salary between two good players instead of one star, particularly in light of injury concerns.

I would go with Porzingis over Tyus Jones and J Collins.

I am not wild about either Tyus Jones or John Collins. Good talents but not a great fit for our team.

Never liked J Collins next to Rob Williams. I do like him next to Horford. J Collins needs to play next to a floor spacer So not that different than Porzingis only far less talented. Even worse passer. Worse shooter. Creates less matchup advantages as a post player / iso player. J Collins gives us a more mobile defensive PF but not the shot-blockin defensive C that Porzingis gives us. Not sure where the value is there.

Tyus Jones is a very good backup PG and solid starting PG but I don't like his fit in a two-PG backcourt. He isn't creative enough offensively. I like him better in a one-PG configuration. In a two PG lineup, I like to have guards who are either more aggressive on offense (be it a scorer or a playmaker) or bigger and better defensively than T Jones is. T Jones provides neither of those. I don't see him as a good fit next to Brogdon and D White. Okay fit. But not that good. Some guards just do not work that well in two PG lineups. I view Tyus Jones as one of those guards.

I like him better as a replacement for one of Brogdon / D White with Brogdon / D White being traded for an upgrade elsewhere in the team. Maybe a 6th man wing player. Something like that. If that trade was possible, this alternate Porzingis trade would get more interesting.

[Roy H.]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

Exactly. If we could get the right return, I just feel that moving Jaylen would help this team on many levels, on and off the court.
Maybe a stud backup center who can score a little and is a maniac rebounder and defender with a mean streak plus a pure knock-down 3 shooter.

Who is this player?

Sounds like a younger Al Horford

JB for Dennis Rodman + Kyle Korver

[Kernewek]

Prime Kenneth Faried and Philly-era JJ Reddick?

[wiley]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

Exactly. If we could get the right return, I just feel that moving Jaylen would help this team on many levels, on and off the court.
Maybe a stud backup center who can score a little and is a maniac rebounder and defender with a mean streak plus a pure knock-down 3 shooter.

Who is this player?

Sounds like a younger Al Horford

JB for Dennis Rodman + Kyle Korver

Brown, Horford, Kornet    for      S. Adams, L. Kennard, B. Clarke,  X. Tillman    2 first (late firsts...)     Never happen...no stars coming back... 
but it would be a dynamic team I think.