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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ctrey on December 30, 2012, 11:41:18 PM

Title: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: ctrey on December 30, 2012, 11:41:18 PM
We just got blown out in three straight games. It looks like we have no heart at all. I refuse to believe that this team has quit on Doc but there is clearly something wrong. I think that Terry, Lee and Green have not fit in at all, we have no real reliable scoring outside of Pierce and he is struggling big time as well.
Avery Bradley is not going to turn this around, we simply do not seem to have any fight.
There needs to be a shake up in a big way. What that shake up is I don't know. I do not think we fire Doc, he is an outstanding coach and I do not think he could be replaced by anyone better. Beyond that I am open to anything at this point.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Smitty77 on December 30, 2012, 11:42:39 PM
An outstanding coach??? ;D

Could you please elaborate on that for me?
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: droopdog7 on December 30, 2012, 11:46:47 PM
Serious response; most likely what has to change is fans' expectations. 

If you look at the make up of our roster, it simply is not that good.  We're an old jump shooting team with one B level star  in rondo and two aging used to be stars.  We have zero I side defensive presence outside of kg.  The rest of the team is made up of just guys. 
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: rondohondo on December 30, 2012, 11:47:14 PM
If we could somehow add Gortat without giving up Bradley, I think we could be back in the discussion as a contender.

Bradley locks down the best ball handlers. Last year he owned Westbrook and Wade so we know that would help the perimeter defense a great deal, but we still need a bruiser underneath the hoop to protect the rim and grab rebounds.

Opposing guards aren't the only ones scoring in the paint,our big men are getting killed on the boards ,allowing opposing big men to score at will down low.

If you have those 2 pieces in place I really think the c's would be greatly improved. Still very doubtful it would get us #18 though...
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Chief on December 30, 2012, 11:47:41 PM
Doc refuses to change. The guy is stubborn!!! So if you don't want to fire Doc, here are some ideas:


Simplify the defense

Never play Green at the 4

Feature Sully in the post more

Bring up Melo and bench Collins

Find a legit backup pg (true pg)

Drop the no rebounding scheme

Up Kg's minutes maybe 7 in 7 out

play Pierce at the 2 and green at the 3
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: celticinorlando on December 30, 2012, 11:49:04 PM
Maybe get size that has talent...or start over dumping pierce...bass...lee
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on December 30, 2012, 11:54:26 PM
- completely forget about the last three games and come up with a new approach.

- Get a big man niw or bring Melo up now. Whatever results he may give us, we need a new spark.

- Bring Jet back to his sixth man role. I dont care if Lee is shooting bad, one thing he's consistent about is solid defense.

- MORE EFFORT. It seems that this team has none, at all.

- More minutes for KG, less time for Green at the 4.

-
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Rtpas11 on December 30, 2012, 11:59:02 PM
Realistic Roster Rotation Change:

Starters:
Rondo, Bradley, Green, Garnett, Melo

Bench:
Terry, Lee, Pierce, Bass, Sully

Waive:
Collins, Wilcox

Sign:
Birdman, K-Mart
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on December 31, 2012, 12:01:52 AM
Realistic Roster Rotation Change:

Starters:
Rondo, Bradley, Green, Garnett, Melo

Bench:
Terry, Lee, Pierce, Bass, Sully

Waive:
Collins, Wilcox

Sign:
Birdman, K-Mart

I like Paul coming off the bench. Not sure if he will though?
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Atzar on December 31, 2012, 12:13:38 AM
I'm going to go after the golden child for a minute.

I see all of these posts that go something like "Except for KG, this team is [insert bad descriptor]."  I think he's as much at fault as anybody. 

He's a center now.  A center's job, by definition, is to protect the rim and clean up the glass.  At some point, KG needs to get his ass in the paint and play his position.  We desperately need somebody to swallow up drives to the basket, and it's within his skillset to be that guy until we find somebody else to fill the role.

I know how hard he tries for this team, and I know that this defense revolves around him.  I also know that our defense sucks right now.  We gave up 118 points to Sacramento.  It's time for our defensive leader to shoulder the burden of correcting a failing defense. 


In the meantime, I hope Danny is setting the phonelines on fire looking for a capable big man to help us out.  We need it.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: vinnie on December 31, 2012, 12:15:19 AM
It's hard for anyone to control the defensive end when he is only playing 5 minutes at a time. Garnett is the only big with a clue on defense.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: ctrey on December 31, 2012, 12:18:53 AM
I think we should try to trade Jason Terry. He just does not fit in with the team. No knock on him, it is just a bad fit. I also am beginning to think we may want to have Pierce be the sixth man and let Green start. It sounds nuts but I think that Jeff Green would be a lot better starting then coming off the bench. Also he should never play the four.
I think that once Bradley gets back we go with a starting line up of Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger and KG. Sullinger has earned the starting job, he has been really consistent. I would actually like to see them run some plays for him. I think he could give them 13 and 8 if he got 30 minutes a game. Let Pierce be the sixth man, I think he would thrive in the role and still get solid minutes. Somehow I think this would make us very hard to deal with. A back up squad of Lee, Terry, Pierce and Bass along with whoever at the five would be a load to deal with.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: LEHGOCELTICS on December 31, 2012, 12:20:32 AM
A lot of things have to change. Something just doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Atzar on December 31, 2012, 12:25:09 AM
It's hard for anyone to control the defensive end when he is only playing 5 minutes at a time. Garnett is the only big with a clue on defense.

He hasn't even been doing it in the time he's on the court.  I agree that the rest of our big man rotation has been horrid defensively, but Garnett isn't blameless either.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 31, 2012, 12:29:42 AM
I think Danny has to get Cousins at all cost.  I'd trade Rondo in a heartbeat for Cousins....IF that is what it takes....our Center and front court defense is HORRIBLE...KG can't play 40 minutes anymore and make up for the rest of the guys mistakes.

just trade for  get Cousins   and go from  there.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Atzar on December 31, 2012, 12:34:59 AM
I think Danny has to get Cousins at all cost.  I'd trade Rondo in a heartbeat for Cousins....IF that is what it takes....our Center and front court defense is HORRIBLE...KG can't play 40 minutes anymore and make up for the rest of the guys mistakes.

just trade for  get Cousins   and go from  there.

Cousins isn't freaking Bill Russell.  At this point in their careers, Rondo is a much better player than Cousins even before the character concerns are factored.

If we get the kid, I get the feeling you're expecting way too much.  He's good, but he's not that good.  He's an inefficient scorer and an average defender at best, although average is better than almost anybody on our team right now. 
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: rondohondo on December 31, 2012, 12:39:13 AM
I think Danny has to get Cousins at all cost.  I'd trade Rondo in a heartbeat for Cousins....IF that is what it takes....our Center and front court defense is HORRIBLE...KG can't play 40 minutes anymore and make up for the rest of the guys mistakes.

just trade for  get Cousins   and go from  there.

Cousins isn't freaking Bill Russell.  At this point in their careers, Rondo is a much better player than Cousins even before the character concerns are factored.

If we get the kid, I get the feeling you're expecting way too much.  He's good, but he's not that good.  He's an inefficient scorer and an average defender at best, although average is better than almost anybody on our team right now.

yea seriously Rondo has a much bigger impact than cousins. Scores 3 less ppg, but shoots 10% better, in addition gets us another 20+ points in assists per game while being one of the best rebounding pg's in the game ,and a clutch prime time performer .

Sorry not giving up Rondo for cousins straight up.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Change on December 31, 2012, 12:40:05 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: LEHGOCELTICS on December 31, 2012, 12:41:04 AM
I think Danny has to get Cousins at all cost.  I'd trade Rondo in a heartbeat for Cousins....IF that is what it takes....our Center and front court defense is HORRIBLE...KG can't play 40 minutes anymore and make up for the rest of the guys mistakes.

just trade for  get Cousins   and go from  there.

Cousins isn't freaking Bill Russell.  At this point in their careers, Rondo is a much better player than Cousins even before the character concerns are factored.

If we get the kid, I get the feeling you're expecting way too much.  He's good, but he's not that good.  He's an inefficient scorer and an average defender at best, although average is better than almost anybody on our team right now.

yea seriously Rondo has a much bigger impact than cousins. Scores 3 less ppg, but shot 10% better, in additions gets us another 20+ points in assists per game while being one of the best rebounding pg's in the game ,and a clutch prime time performer .

Sorry not giving up Rondo for cousins straight up.

Danny needs to put together some kind of package for Tyreke and Demarcus centered around Rondo. Start anew with actual veteran leadership around them.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: pearljammer10 on December 31, 2012, 12:42:14 AM
Garnett needs to play 32 -35 minutes a night. Period.


Oh and Jason Collins needs to never start again. Or play. Ever.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: j804 on December 31, 2012, 12:43:55 AM
Garnett needs to play 32 -35 minutes a night. Period.


Oh and Jason Collins needs to never start again. Or play. Ever.
remember we won some games against scrub teams with him though, he was a willy veteran a week ago who was HUGE for us rofl
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on December 31, 2012, 12:52:57 AM
Serious response; most likely what has to change is fans' expectations. 

If you look at the make up of our roster, it simply is not that good.  We're an old jump shooting team with one B level star  in rondo and two aging used to be stars.  We have zero I side defensive presence outside of kg.  The rest of the team is made up of just guys.

then how did we come within one quarter of playing in the finals last season ? are these miscellaneous parts (Green, Terry, Lee) such misfits for the Garnett Celtics style that they have ended up hurting more than helping ?
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: rondohondo on December 31, 2012, 12:58:58 AM
Serious response; most likely what has to change is fans' expectations. 

If you look at the make up of our roster, it simply is not that good.  We're an old jump shooting team with one B level star  in rondo and two aging used to be stars.  We have zero I side defensive presence outside of kg.  The rest of the team is made up of just guys.

then how did we come within one quarter of playing in the finals last season ? are these miscellaneous parts (Green, Terry, Lee) such misfits for the Garnett Celtics style that they have ended up hurting more than helping ?

Rose got hurt and Bosh missed the first 5 games of the mia/bos series?When Bosh came back Miami wins the next 2 games.

If rose doesn't get hurt, the c's are out in the 2nd round last year IMO.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: mrpoundforpound on December 31, 2012, 12:59:07 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

jeff had a good game. he was one of the leading scorers today with 16. id rather have him over any forward coming off the bench today.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: rondohondo on December 31, 2012, 01:01:30 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

jeff had a good game. he was one of the leading scorers today with 16. id rather have him over any forward coming off the bench today.

YEA 16 PTS on 29% Shooting.....
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: mrpoundforpound on December 31, 2012, 01:04:37 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

jeff had a good game. he was one of the leading scorers today with 16. id rather have him over any forward coming off the bench today.

YEA 16 PTS on 29% Shooting.....

name a better sf off the bench than jeff first
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Tr1boy on December 31, 2012, 01:05:57 AM
An outstanding coach??? ;D

Could you please elaborate on that for me?

He is called Greg Popovich. Possibly phil jackson.

These guys have never failed as coaches and always helped their team at least be contenders
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: mrpoundforpound on December 31, 2012, 01:09:03 AM
An outstanding coach??? ;D

Could you please elaborate on that for me?

He is called Greg Popovich. Possibly phil jackson.

These guys have never failed as coaches and always helped their team at least be contenders

jacksons overrated only won with the best players in the league on his team every year
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: tenn_smoothie on December 31, 2012, 01:09:30 AM
An outstanding coach??? ;D

Could you please elaborate on that for me?

He is called Greg Popovich. Possibly phil jackson.

These guys have never failed as coaches and always helped their team at least be contenders

Popovich is never leaving San Antonio and i wouldn't want Phil Jackson if he offered to work for free.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: syfy9 on December 31, 2012, 02:43:49 AM
An outstanding coach??? ;D

Could you please elaborate on that for me?

He is called Greg Popovich. Possibly phil jackson.

These guys have never failed as coaches and always helped their team at least be contenders

jacksons overrated only won with the best players in the league on his team every year

Are you saying Jackson doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame and at the very least in contention with the great coaches of all time?
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on December 31, 2012, 04:06:56 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

jeff had a good game. he was one of the leading scorers today with 16. id rather have him over any forward coming off the bench today.

YEA 16 PTS on 29% Shooting.....

name a better sf off the bench than jeff first

I agree that he's our best SF off the bench, but he didn't have a good game: 5 of 17 shooting (1 of 4 from 3pt range) with only 3 rebounds and 1 assist. Not good at all.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: lightspeed5 on December 31, 2012, 05:34:00 AM
(http://www.nationofblue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Twitter-_-CelticsLife_-Want-to-see-how-DeMarcus-Cousins-...-300x169.png)
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: mctyson on December 31, 2012, 06:23:33 AM
I want to see more Rondo-Pierce-Green-Sullinger-KG.  I think that is our most talented lineup of players. In fact, I think that should be our starting lineup.  We need Green and Sully to be big contributors if we want to win (ex. Brooklyn on Xmas).  I think they need more reps with our Big 3 and they definitely should be the group closing out the game.  Plus, this causes some mismatches for us as Pierce is way to big and crafty to be handled in the post by most SGs, and Green is a tough post matchup for most SFs.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Mencius on December 31, 2012, 09:12:32 AM

Rose got hurt and Bosh missed the first 5 games of the mia/bos series?When Bosh came back Miami wins the next 2 games.

If rose doesn't get hurt, the c's are out in the 2nd round last year IMO.
Exactly right.  Fun as our run was.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Mencius on December 31, 2012, 09:22:23 AM
Whatever Danny does, I hope it's all about building for our NEXT window.  This one's closed, so don't bring in bandaids to make us marginally better, but don't get us to real championship contention with the KG-PP core.  No Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk type moves, period.  If he can hoodwink somebody into giving up a young piece that can be a part of our rebuild going forward, then great, but at this point, I'm about the rebuild.

What I think Danny will do is sit back, and see just what kind of impact Avery will have, and within 3 weeks he'll have an idea.  By the third week of January, I suspect Danny will have decided what direction to take the team.  Essentially, I mean he'll have decided whether this team can still contend this year, or if the rebuild has begun in earnest, although we're a bit hamstrung by the decisions he made in the summer to go for it again this year (but I can't fault him for that, close as we got to the finals).  Still, as rondohondo pointed out, if Rose doesn't get injured last year, we were a second round out.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: clover on December 31, 2012, 09:43:34 AM
Whatever Danny does, I hope it's all about building for our NEXT window.  This one's closed, so don't bring in bandaids to make us marginally better, but don't get us to real championship contention with the KG-PP core.  No Joe Johnson for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk type moves, period.  If he can hoodwink somebody into giving up a young piece that can be a part of our rebuild going forward, then great, but at this point, I'm about the rebuild.

What I think Danny will do is sit back, and see just what kind of impact Avery will have, and within 3 weeks he'll have an idea.  By the third week of January, I suspect Danny will have decided what direction to take the team.  Essentially, I mean he'll have decided whether this team can still contend this year, or if the rebuild has begun in earnest, although we're a bit hamstrung by the decisions he made in the summer to go for it again this year (but I can't fault him for that, close as we got to the finals).  Still, as rondohondo pointed out, if Rose doesn't get injured last year, we were a second round out.

I agree.  If anything, it's better that Danny's midseason trading be all for the future--and depress their record for the remainder of the year.  The C's could use a top-10 pick.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: vinnie on December 31, 2012, 09:50:25 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

jeff had a good game. he was one of the leading scorers today with 16. id rather have him over any forward coming off the bench today.

He played hard, but 16 points on 17 shots is far from a good game.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: CoachBo on December 31, 2012, 10:09:12 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

Unfortunately, this is a pretty good take.

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Any short-term fix has to focus on defense and protecting the rim, but I wonder, frankly, if this thing can be fixed after three of what are clearly the worst performances since Garnett got to town.

All other concerns aside, this team simply cannot defend competently, and that is concern number one. That's not going to change when you add an undersized two with two bad shoulders.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on December 31, 2012, 10:21:11 AM
Serious response; most likely what has to change is fans' expectations. 

If you look at the make up of our roster, it simply is not that good.  We're an old jump shooting team with one B level star  in rondo and two aging used to be stars.  We have zero I side defensive presence outside of kg.  The rest of the team is made up of just guys.

then how did we come within one quarter of playing in the finals last season ? are these miscellaneous parts (Green, Terry, Lee) such misfits for the Garnett Celtics style that they have ended up hurting more than helping ?

Rose got hurt and Bosh missed the first 5 games of the mia/bos series?When Bosh came back Miami wins the next 2 games.

If rose doesn't get hurt, the c's are out in the 2nd round last year IMO.

incorrect. we beat miami WITH bosh in game 5. we were in game 7. That is the game bosh had an impact at the end. not 5 and 6. 6 was all lebum.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: KevinGamble on December 31, 2012, 10:21:51 AM
I think we should try to trade Jason Terry. He just does not fit in with the team. No knock on him, it is just a bad fit. I also am beginning to think we may want to have Pierce be the sixth man and let Green start. It sounds nuts but I think that Jeff Green would be a lot better starting then coming off the bench. Also he should never play the four.
I think that once Bradley gets back we go with a starting line up of Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger and KG. Sullinger has earned the starting job, he has been really consistent. I would actually like to see them run some plays for him. I think he could give them 13 and 8 if he got 30 minutes a game. Let Pierce be the sixth man, I think he would thrive in the role and still get solid minutes. Somehow I think this would make us very hard to deal with. A back up squad of Lee, Terry, Pierce and Bass along with whoever at the five would be a load to deal with.

Tommy Point for solving from within.  As a huge Paul Pierce fan, I concede his time for handing off to someone else has come.  I would even accept a trade.  I can't imagine how we could trade him in a deal that benefits us now, though. 

Does anyone remember when the "C" came off Pierce's Jersey?
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: wiley on December 31, 2012, 10:34:33 AM
Serious response; most likely what has to change is fans' expectations. 

If you look at the make up of our roster, it simply is not that good.  We're an old jump shooting team with one B level star  in rondo and two aging used to be stars.  We have zero I side defensive presence outside of kg.  The rest of the team is made up of just guys.

then how did we come within one quarter of playing in the finals last season ? are these miscellaneous parts (Green, Terry, Lee) such misfits for the Garnett Celtics style that they have ended up hurting more than helping ?

Rose got hurt and Bosh missed the first 5 games of the mia/bos series?When Bosh came back Miami wins the next 2 games.

If rose doesn't get hurt, the c's are out in the 2nd round last year IMO.

This could be true, but  injuries happen.  If Lebron hadn't gone unconscious and delivered a performance he may never match, the Celts would have been in the finals, despite no AB, who, without being a star, reminded the Celtics who they are, or are supposed to be... Add AB, playoffs level Rondo, and KG at bigger minutes post season, and we,'re back in business.  this team isn't built for the regular season...  If we can add a center I'm all for it, but don't forget what Miami did to Ok. City with Perk and Ibaka. Miami beat us by a hair and crushed Ok. City.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: MBunge on December 31, 2012, 10:35:24 AM

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Danny did bring in Krstic and Darko.  The only person on the Celtics who had anything to do with those guys leaving the team is Doc.  Danny also brought in an athletic wing in Green and I'll ask the question again...how many times has Boston ever run a play for Green?  Danny also brought in a 6th-man who's been one of the best bench players in the league the last several years.  It's not Danny's fault Doc tried to turn him into Ray Allen Jr.  And outside of Sully, every guy on this team has at least been capable of playing mediocre NBA defense during their careers.

This may not be a championship-level team, but there's clearly enough talent here to be better than this team has been so far this year.

Mike
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: vinnie on December 31, 2012, 10:36:46 AM
Nothing.

This team is broken.

1) Celtics are dependent on two older HOF to be their primary scorers. Waiting for someone else to step up.

2) Remember this was supposed to be Rondo's MVP worthy season. Yeah, me neither. I have given up on him ever improving as a scorer.

3) Jeff Green experiment has been a failure. He is Mr. Average. $36million flushed down the toilet.

4) Out of rotation players, only Garnett has shot blocking abilities. Teams have free passes to the rim when Garnett sits. Might be time to cal up Melo.

5) Not enough quality three point shooters on the roster. Majority of the three pointers come from Pierce and Terry.

5) They are the worst rebounding team in the league.

Unfortunately, this is a pretty good take.

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Any short-term fix has to focus on defense and protecting the rim, but I wonder, frankly, if this thing can be fixed after three of what are clearly the worst performances since Garnett got to town.

All other concerns aside, this team simply cannot defend competently, and that is concern number one. That's not going to change when you add an undersized two with two bad shoulders.

The worst three straight performances since 1977 according to CNNSE
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: clover on December 31, 2012, 10:43:17 AM

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Danny did bring in Krstic and Darko.  The only person on the Celtics who had anything to do with those guys leaving the team is Doc.  Danny also brought in an athletic wing in Green and I'll ask the question again...how many times has Boston ever run a play for Green?  Danny also brought in a 6th-man who's been one of the best bench players in the league the last several years.  It's not Danny's fault Doc tried to turn him into Ray Allen Jr.  And outside of Sully, every guy on this team has at least been capable of playing mediocre NBA defense during their careers.

This may not be a championship-level team, but there's clearly enough talent here to be better than this team has been so far this year.

Mike

All true, but the Doc buck stops with Danny.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: dark_lord on December 31, 2012, 02:15:54 PM
1. get bradley back
2. try to make a move for a good big man
3. try an add a defensive minded assistant coach that can fill the thibs/frank role
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: D Dub on December 31, 2012, 02:35:37 PM
1) 3pt shooting, both sides of the ball.  Terry, Green, Lee habitually late closing out & missing too many open looks 

2) O rebounding.  We shoot tons of outside shots & aren't particularly good at it.  Maybe at least try for seconds?

3) Rondo to the Stripe.  Avoiding FT's is great for keeping opponents out of foul trouble
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: CoachBo on December 31, 2012, 02:36:00 PM

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Danny did bring in Krstic and Darko.  The only person on the Celtics who had anything to do with those guys leaving the team is Doc.  Danny also brought in an athletic wing in Green and I'll ask the question again...how many times has Boston ever run a play for Green?  Danny also brought in a 6th-man who's been one of the best bench players in the league the last several years.  It's not Danny's fault Doc tried to turn him into Ray Allen Jr.  And outside of Sully, every guy on this team has at least been capable of playing mediocre NBA defense during their careers.

This may not be a championship-level team, but there's clearly enough talent here to be better than this team has been so far this year.

Mike
There isn't the time to rebut this in detail ...

However, the issues that confront this team are far more complicated than a simplistic attempt to lay them all at the feet of Doc Rivers.

Not buying Rivers is the problem.

At all.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: ScottHow on December 31, 2012, 02:40:59 PM
As crazy as it sounds if we did let Doc go, the Celtics pride we've built up over this run would die with his firing.

I don't think he is the greatest coach in the world, but he's a Celtic in my eyes.

I realize that all coaches eventually leave/get fired/move on, but firing Doc would just feel wrong. It would go against everything Ainge/players have said through the years about staying with Doc through the early rough years.

Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: MBunge on December 31, 2012, 03:14:07 PM

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Danny did bring in Krstic and Darko.  The only person on the Celtics who had anything to do with those guys leaving the team is Doc.  Danny also brought in an athletic wing in Green and I'll ask the question again...how many times has Boston ever run a play for Green?  Danny also brought in a 6th-man who's been one of the best bench players in the league the last several years.  It's not Danny's fault Doc tried to turn him into Ray Allen Jr.  And outside of Sully, every guy on this team has at least been capable of playing mediocre NBA defense during their careers.

This may not be a championship-level team, but there's clearly enough talent here to be better than this team has been so far this year.

Mike
There isn't the time to rebut this in detail ...

However, the issues that confront this team are far more complicated than a simplistic attempt to lay them all at the feet of Doc Rivers.

Not buying Rivers is the problem.

At all.

AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Is it possible to say ANYTHING against the Holy Doc without his disciples running to his defense?

Look, is Doc Rivers solely responsible for the problems this year?  No.

Is Doc soley responsible for the problems this team has had in the past?  No.

Can you blame Ainge for certain moves he's made, contracts signed and players missed out on?  Sure.

But there's no denying that, on paper, this was as talented a Celtic team as any since Banner 17.  Given what was possible, this is about as good a team as any GM could have assembled.  If this team can't get it done, that can't be blamed on Ainge.

If he doesn't make the right moves to fix it, THAT you can blame on him.

The state of this team right now is entirely on the shoulders of Doc and the players.  You can argue about which is more responsible, but you can't exempt either of responsibility.

Mike
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: nickagneta on December 31, 2012, 03:34:42 PM

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Danny did bring in Krstic and Darko.  The only person on the Celtics who had anything to do with those guys leaving the team is Doc.  Danny also brought in an athletic wing in Green and I'll ask the question again...how many times has Boston ever run a play for Green?  Danny also brought in a 6th-man who's been one of the best bench players in the league the last several years.  It's not Danny's fault Doc tried to turn him into Ray Allen Jr.  And outside of Sully, every guy on this team has at least been capable of playing mediocre NBA defense during their careers.

This may not be a championship-level team, but there's clearly enough talent here to be better than this team has been so far this year.

Mike
There isn't the time to rebut this in detail ...

However, the issues that confront this team are far more complicated than a simplistic attempt to lay them all at the feet of Doc Rivers.

Not buying Rivers is the problem.

At all.

AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Is it possible to say ANYTHING against the Holy Doc without his disciples running to his defense?

Look, is Doc Rivers solely responsible for the problems this year?  No.

Is Doc soley responsible for the problems this team has had in the past?  No.

Can you blame Ainge for certain moves he's made, contracts signed and players missed out on?  Sure.

But there's no denying that, on paper, this was as talented a Celtic team as any since Banner 17.  Given what was possible, this is about as good a team as any GM could have assembled.  If this team can't get it done, that can't be blamed on Ainge.

If he doesn't make the right moves to fix it, THAT you can blame on him.

The state of this team right now is entirely on the shoulders of Doc and the players.  You can argue about which is more responsible, but you can't exempt either of responsibility.

Mike
You know Mike if you hadn't been basically calling Doc a horrible coach and calling for his removal since the moment you joined Celticsblog, you might have a bit of credibility regarding criticism of Doc.

But, given how you have posted about him since the moment you started posting, its pretty easy to see you have no credibility when discussing whether Doc is the problem or not.

This team is poorly constructed.

When Doc has stuck with his starters and rotations in the past he has been roundly criticized by some for not jerking people in and out of the starting lineup and rotation when someone wasn't playing great.

Now this year he is jerking players in and out of the starting lineup and the rotation and he is still be criticized by those same people.

When Doc stuck with Perk and KG and was at times getting run off the court people criticized him not running and playing the occasional small ball. No that he has zero quality bigs and the league has been transformed into a league of the better teams playing small, Doc gets criticized for playing too much small ball.

When Doc played vets he was criticized for not playing young players. When he plays young players, he gets criticized for not playing them enough. When he plays them more and the team isn't playing well, he gets criticized for his coaching ability because he can't make the team win.

Doc is a great coach. He has lots of warts. But this team is not losing because of Doc's coaching. This team is losing because KG and Pierce and Terry are starting to show they can not perform anywhere near the way they used to or as consistently as they used to. This team is losing because they have one star player and an entire roster of role players. This team is losing because that one star player isn't enough to will this team to wins all by himself, especially offensively. This team is losing because it was built on the concept of defense and the recent additions to this team have been players that are not good defensive players.

This team has 2 good rebounders and zero dominant or great rebounders. They have played without their shutdown wing/guard player. They have had inconsistent and lackluster years from just about every player they added to this team that didn't play for this team last year.

And this hasn't been Doc's best coaching year.

But when it comes to the list of reasons why this team is losing, Doc's coaching is way, way, way down on the bottom and if this team is to turn it around, it will probably be because of Doc's ability to manage personalities, inspire his players and teach his players to become a better team by sacrificing their individuality.

Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: diddybop on December 31, 2012, 03:39:46 PM

Ainge has built a team out of square pegs that simply don't fit in any of the numerous gaping holes in this club.

Danny did bring in Krstic and Darko.  The only person on the Celtics who had anything to do with those guys leaving the team is Doc.  Danny also brought in an athletic wing in Green and I'll ask the question again...how many times has Boston ever run a play for Green?  Danny also brought in a 6th-man who's been one of the best bench players in the league the last several years.  It's not Danny's fault Doc tried to turn him into Ray Allen Jr.  And outside of Sully, every guy on this team has at least been capable of playing mediocre NBA defense during their careers.

This may not be a championship-level team, but there's clearly enough talent here to be better than this team has been so far this year.

Mike

Wow. Have you ever thought that maybe plays aren't run for Jeff Green because he can't do anything outside of the following:

-Put his head down and drive hard to his right (about 70% of the time)
-Shoot a corner three (20% of the time)
-Get it in the post, hold it for 8 seconds and either pass out, lose it or flick the ball up like some type of Shawn Marion/Hook shot (10% of the time)

He has been literally incapable of doing anything besides those things. Against GSW there was one play where he went to his right, then tried to cross to his left and almost fell down.

Jeff Green is incredibly gifted athletically, and outside of a few big dunks, and a couple chase down blocks, he doesn't do much else. This has been who he is since Georgetown. Nothing has changed. I have yet to see Jeff set one hard pick in a game. ONE. His rebounding for a 6'9" athletically gifted player is horrible. And his defense has been very, very mediocre.

Courtney Lee was brought here to start at the two while AB rehabs. He has yet to figure ANY of the defensive schemes of the team. His on ball d is above average, but his team defense makes Brandon Bass look like KG Jr. Oh not to mention he went through a ridiculous shooting slump and is still shooting 32%  from three. Doc tried to start Courtney Lee, but his awfulness on both ends of the floor forced him to start Terry - who was supposed to be our 6th man.

People thinking Doc is the problem are absolutely ridiculous. The players have underperformed. They have also been given chances to solidify roles and haven't been able to. Players in the past have figured out how to play Celtics defense. Because some new guys haven't been able to isn't Doc Rivers' fault.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: MBunge on December 31, 2012, 04:56:44 PM


Wow. Have you ever thought that maybe plays aren't run for Jeff Green because he can't do anything outside of the following

How much of Jeff Green did you see play in OKC?  How do you have any idea what he can and cannot do if he never gets the opportunity to do it?  Do you know what I found when I compared this year's stats for Jeff Green and Marquis Daniels?  Daniels is averaging more shots per minute with the Bucks than Green is with the Celtics, and that's with noted chuckers Jennings and Ellis in Milwaukee.

Mike
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 31, 2012, 05:08:20 PM
He is inconsistent.  When given an opportunity he has not produced.   I think Doc wants to win, I think Doc would play him if he was on fire.   He is not though.   Playing him is like flipping a coin but it seems like it comes up tails more than heads so far.

If he was so great in OKC why did they trade him?  For a bum legged C?
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: MBunge on December 31, 2012, 05:10:16 PM
You know Mike if you hadn't been basically calling Doc a horrible coach and calling for his removal since the moment you joined Celticsblog, you might have a bit of credibility regarding criticism of Doc.

And you have credibility on the issue of Doc because...?

No coach is perfect.  Not Red and not Doc.  Doc is certainly entitled to some of the credit for the success Boston has had since KG and Ray got here.  He also deserves some of the blame for the team sucking before that and their struggles since Banner 17.

If I or anyone else feel there's something to criticize about Doc's coaching, we should be able to express the opinion without being treated as though we were blaspheming against God Himself.

Mike
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: ScottHow on December 31, 2012, 05:17:02 PM
You know Mike if you hadn't been basically calling Doc a horrible coach and calling for his removal since the moment you joined Celticsblog, you might have a bit of credibility regarding criticism of Doc.

And you have credibility on the issue of Doc because...?

No coach is perfect.  Not Red and not Doc.  Doc is certainly entitled to some of the credit for the success Boston has had since KG and Ray got here.  He also deserves some of the blame for the team sucking before that and their struggles since Banner 17.

If I or anyone else feel there's something to criticize about Doc's coaching, we should be able to express the opinion without being treated as though we were blaspheming against God Himself.

Mike

On a lighter note, Red was perfect and is pretty much a god. #religionofRed *i'm not worthy* *i'm not worthy*
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on December 31, 2012, 05:25:53 PM
You know Mike if you hadn't been basically calling Doc a horrible coach and calling for his removal since the moment you joined Celticsblog, you might have a bit of credibility regarding criticism of Doc.

And you have credibility on the issue of Doc because...?

No coach is perfect.  Not Red and not Doc.  Doc is certainly entitled to some of the credit for the success Boston has had since KG and Ray got here.  He also deserves some of the blame for the team sucking before that and their struggles since Banner 17.

If I or anyone else feel there's something to criticize about Doc's coaching, we should be able to express the opinion without being treated as though we were blaspheming against God Himself.

Mike

I tend to avoid blanket criticism of Doc because there is so much more to coaching than what we see during games. Even decisions we see during games are based sometimes on information we don't have: player fatigue, player health, decisions made prior to the game to try certain line-ups in certain circumstances. We also aren't privvy to practices, relationships and other less tangible factors that all contribute to the assessment of a coach.  Doc seems to have the support and respect of his players.  He also seems to have the support and respect of Danny and owners who I think are not afraid to make changes. 

I think its great to question Doc's in-game moves but I can't see being certain that he's a bad coach.  Too much unobservable data to draw firm conclusions in my opinion.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: celtics2 on December 31, 2012, 05:42:11 PM
Serious response; most likely what has to change is fans' expectations. 

If you look at the make up of our roster, it simply is not that good.  We're an old jump shooting team with one B level star  in rondo and two aging used to be stars.  We have zero I side defensive presence outside of kg.  The rest of the team is made up of just guys.

Fans that support a Team have a right to complain. This Organization has failed us long term again. It will be a long time before the Celtics become a contender. Way too many here drink the Kool Aid. Boston's becoming a very small Town. We had a Superstar take a pay cut to get out of here.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: diddybop on December 31, 2012, 05:43:42 PM


Wow. Have you ever thought that maybe plays aren't run for Jeff Green because he can't do anything outside of the following

How much of Jeff Green did you see play in OKC?  How do you have any idea what he can and cannot do if he never gets the opportunity to do it?  Do you know what I found when I compared this year's stats for Jeff Green and Marquis Daniels?  Daniels is averaging more shots per minute with the Bucks than Green is with the Celtics, and that's with noted chuckers Jennings and Ellis in Milwaukee.

Mike

I don't really get what you are trying to imply comparing Daniels and Green's shot attempts. I'm not going to sit here and act like I've dissected Greens game year in and year out. But every single year since Georgetown, Jeff has been pretty much the same guy. A few flashes, but the rest of his game is flat out mediocre. I really don't think he doesn't make other plays, not because Doc and the Celtics are holding him back, but because he can't make them. They will clear it out in the post for him, and he just freezes with the ball sometimes. They run an iso in the corner for him, and he'll drive recklessly to his right almost every time. He's not consistent enough of a shooter to run a pnr. What would you like Doc to do, let him play point forward?

To try and put the blame on Doc in regards to Jeff Green not playing that much is flat out wrong. If he showed a little bit more when on the court, his playing time would increase.

Jeff has always put up a negative +/- number every year of his career, starting with the Seattle/OKC days. I've seen enough Jeff Green to conclude that he is at best a very average basketball player (unless you think he was held back at Georgetown, In OKC and now here).

I think Doc has done fairly well when handed an above average roster in Boston. I'm not implying he's the best coach in the NBA, but he's done very good. The fact that the bulk of the current roster is underperforming is not something he should be blamed for.

But as far as getting back to the topic, it's clear the team needs to add size. And not the Varnado types of the world. Whether it's Boogie or Gortat or something else. The penetration is killing us this year, and nobody outside of a 36 year old Garnett is able to do much. Sully is getting killed with the rookie calls and can't stay on the court for an extended period of time, Bass has been below average all year, Collins is just there for some kind of size presence and Wilcox is hurt.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 31, 2012, 07:07:50 PM
Quote
We had a Superstar take a pay cut to get out of here.

I think PP and KG are no longer superstars every night.   I think the same is true of Ray.   I also think Ray is ring chasing!
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: chambers on December 31, 2012, 08:34:43 PM
This is a team that's built for the playoffs.

We need to improve 3 things for me.

1)we need a defensive big that can finish around the rim and can pass. Cousins would good for this. Verajao or Gortat would be great.

2)we need to get control of our defense. Avery Bradley returning, with a healthy Rondo in the playoffs (he obviously wasn't even 75% vs the Kings, thigh is still bothering him)will be a nasty barrier against dribble penetration.
We need to combine this with the above mentioned defensive big man.
3)we need to improve our three point shooting and hit more of the easy looks we are getting.

Terry and Lee haven't shot this poorly for a while, so I'm still assuming they'll come around by the playoffs.
Who knows how well Avery will shoot. He was running hot last year, I bet he was working on his shooting while he couldn't run so I won't be surprised to see him hit those open jumpers and corner threes.

I think we're expecting too much from this team in the regular season, we know they'll take it to another level come playoff time.

The East is weak this year, very weak.
If we can get to the playoffs healthy, with our defense clicking, adding a solid big man to protect the rim, we have a decent shot of at least getting to the ECF like last year.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Who on December 31, 2012, 08:59:55 PM
More quickness in the starting lineup.

They are playing like those old J.O'Neal + Ray Allen lineups last season only without as much interior defense from their center or two-way play from Ray (defense vs Terry, offense vs Lee).

The current starting lineup with Jason Terry at shooting guard, Jason Collins at center and Garnett at power forward is seriously dysfunctional and needs to be scrapped.

Every team they are playing against lately is out-quicking them offensively and defensively. Beating them to spots. They just don't have enough foot speed on the floor right now.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Celtics18 on December 31, 2012, 09:31:54 PM
More quickness in the starting lineup.

They are playing like those old J.O'Neal + Ray Allen lineups last season only without as much interior defense from their center or two-way play from Ray (defense vs Terry, offense vs Lee).

The current starting lineup with Jason Terry at shooting guard, Jason Collins at center and Garnett at power forward is seriously dysfunctional and needs to be scrapped.

Every team they are playing against lately is out-quicking them offensively and defensively. Beating them to spots. They just don't have enough foot speed on the floor right now.

Spot on as usual.  To me, losing Wilcox has been a big blow.  I know that a lot of people have been pretty down on him, but he added some speed and athleticism to that front court which is sorely lacking right now. 

I'm really hoping that getting Avery back gives a real boost to our team speed.

Also, of course, having Rajon hobbling around out there doesn't help.  Hopefully, his hip issues don't linger (not sure why he even played in the Sacto game?).
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: crimson_stallion on December 31, 2012, 11:48:02 PM
The answer is very simple as to what needs to change - we need an identity.

If you had to describe our team in a few words, how would you describe them?

San Antonio - Methodical and deep
Chicago - Tough defense
New York - Lots of shooters
Miami - Two superstars surrounded by shooters
OKC - Athletic
Brooklyn - Big
Utah - Rebounds and tough interior game

Boston - ????

We have no identity. 

We are not a tough defensive team.  We don't put a ton of points on the board.  We aren't good rebounders.  We aren't super atletic.  We aren't a super-young team with a chip on our shoulders.  We arent a very old veteran team that knows how to play.  We aren't a passionate team that wins with pure emotion (see last year). 

ULTIMATELY I'd like to keep:

Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Sullinger
Garnett
Terry
Green

That's a pretty solid 7 man rotation to build around, and those 7 guys have so far been the most productive overall. 

I'd be happy to throw everybody else on the trading block, that means:

Bass
Lee
Barbosa
Collins
Wilcox
Joseph
1st Round Pick

Every one of those is a tradable asset to me.  Not one player in that group has shown consistent production for us, Joseph is not likely to get paying time outside of garbage time, and next years draft is weak. 

We don't need a superstar in return either - we need any combination of the following:

1. A defensive / rebounding big
* Andre Drummond
* Andris Biedrins
* Larry Saunders
* Bernard James
* Ed Davis
* Elton Brand
* Emeka Okafor
* Lamar Odom
* Rasheed Wallace (Yep, I'd take him over the crap we have)
* Jermaine Oneal

2. A capable backup PG
* AJ Price
* Kirk Hinrich
* Luke Ridnour
* Jamaal Tinsley
* Jameer Nelson
* Andre Miller
* Eric Maynor
* Derek Fisher

3. A solid and versatile defensive swingman
* Marquis Daniels
* Delonte West
* Lamar Odom
* Jordan Crawford
* Matt Barnes
* Paul George
* Andre Iguodala
* Jared Dudley
* Mickeal Pietrus

Personally I think a solid big is first priority, and either a solid PG or a solid defensive swingman is next importance.

Looking at the pool of tradable assets we have, I think we are perfectly capable of getting a solid pick up out of any two of those groups, and possible a servicable option from a third group as well.

We need to do it!
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 01, 2013, 02:52:05 PM
More quickness in the starting lineup.

They are playing like those old J.O'Neal + Ray Allen lineups last season only without as much interior defense from their center or two-way play from Ray (defense vs Terry, offense vs Lee).

The current starting lineup with Jason Terry at shooting guard, Jason Collins at center and Garnett at power forward is seriously dysfunctional and needs to be scrapped.

Every team they are playing against lately is out-quicking them offensively and defensively. Beating them to spots. They just don't have enough foot speed on the floor right now.

Agreed.

Lee or Bradley to start, and put Wilcox (freaking injured) in the starting line-up, and we'll see us start to get some success.

Problem then comes with the Bass and Sully duo. One has to go, or Doc needs to limit one of their roles, preferably Bass. A big man addition, and a subtraction from one of those two should also help.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: perks-a-beast on January 01, 2013, 03:36:16 PM
trade Green, Sullinger & Melo for Marcin Gortat & Michael Beasley and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: hpantazo on January 01, 2013, 03:52:13 PM
I'm highlighting in Red players that we have absolutely no chance of getting unless we trade Rondo plus Bradley/Sullinger.

Players in blue we are unlikely to get for the players you are willing to trade.

Players in Green imo we can get and would help us.


I'd be happy to throw everybody else on the trading block, that means:

Bass
Lee
Barbosa
Collins
Wilcox
Joseph
1st Round Pick

Every one of those is a tradable asset to me.  Not one player in that group has shown consistent production for us, Joseph is not likely to get paying time outside of garbage time, and next years draft is weak. 

We don't need a superstar in return either - we need any combination of the following:

1. A defensive / rebounding big
* Andre Drummond
* Andris Biedrins
* Larry Saunders
* Bernard James
* Ed Davis
* Elton Brand
* Emeka Okafor
* Lamar Odom ( I don't see him leaving LA to come to Boston)
* Rasheed Wallace (Yep, I'd take him over the crap we have)
* Jermaine Oneal

2. A capable backup PG
* AJ Price
* Kirk Hinrich
* Luke Ridnour
* Jamaal Tinsley
* Jameer Nelson
* Andre Miller
* Eric Maynor
* Derek Fisher would be great but I don't think he leaves his family to backup Rondo on the east coast

3. A solid and versatile defensive swingman
* Marquis Daniels
* Delonte West
* Lamar Odom
* Jordan Crawford
* Matt Barnes (huge part of the clippers bench, and they are a top contender)
* Paul George
* Andre Iguodala
* Jared Dudley
* Mickeal Pietrus

Personally I think a solid big is first priority, and either a solid PG or a solid defensive swingman is next importance.

Looking at the pool of tradable assets we have, I think we are perfectly capable of getting a solid pick up out of any two of those groups, and possible a servicable option from a third group as well.

We need to do it!

Okafor and Ridnour would be great for us.
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Evantime34 on January 01, 2013, 03:54:41 PM
The thing that has to change is the return of Bradley and Wilcox. That will make them better. I wrote a piece projecting the teams improvement with those two players.
http://pickandpopdiaries.blogspot.com/2012/12/state-of-celtics-projections-trade-talk.html
Title: Re: Something has to change. Suggestions?
Post by: Celtics18 on January 01, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
I'm highlighting in Red players that we have absolutely no chance of getting unless we trade Rondo plus Bradley/Sullinger.

Players in blue we are unlikely to get for the players you are willing to trade.

Players in Green imo we can get and would help us.


I'd be happy to throw everybody else on the trading block, that means:

Bass
Lee
Barbosa
Collins
Wilcox
Joseph
1st Round Pick

Every one of those is a tradable asset to me.  Not one player in that group has shown consistent production for us, Joseph is not likely to get paying time outside of garbage time, and next years draft is weak. 

We don't need a superstar in return either - we need any combination of the following:

1. A defensive / rebounding big
* Andre Drummond
* Andris Biedrins
* Larry Saunders
* Bernard James
* Ed Davis
* Elton Brand
* Emeka Okafor
* Lamar Odom ( I don't see him leaving LA to come to Boston)
* Rasheed Wallace (Yep, I'd take him over the crap we have)
* Jermaine Oneal

2. A capable backup PG
* AJ Price
* Kirk Hinrich
* Luke Ridnour
* Jamaal Tinsley
* Jameer Nelson
* Andre Miller
* Eric Maynor
* Derek Fisher would be great but I don't think he leaves his family to backup Rondo on the east coast

3. A solid and versatile defensive swingman
* Marquis Daniels
* Delonte West
* Lamar Odom
* Jordan Crawford
* Matt Barnes (huge part of the clippers bench, and they are a top contender)
* Paul George
* Andre Iguodala
* Jared Dudley
* Mickeal Pietrus

Personally I think a solid big is first priority, and either a solid PG or a solid defensive swingman is next importance.

Looking at the pool of tradable assets we have, I think we are perfectly capable of getting a solid pick up out of any two of those groups, and possible a servicable option from a third group as well.

We need to do it!

Okafor and Ridnour would be great for us.

TPs to both of you. 

I'm pretty certain that Sanders is a red as well.