Author Topic: Fultz's Terrible Start & Injury Updates  (Read 29511 times)

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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #90 on: October 25, 2017, 10:21:11 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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i don't have anything against Fultz but safe to say I'm glad his problems are not our problems.
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #91 on: October 25, 2017, 10:28:40 AM »

Offline chambers

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That's a college 3 vs really bad players. Scoring in college isn't indicative of NBA replication. Look at McDermott? He was shooting close to 50% from 3. And then people started guarding him in the NBA. People like Jordan scored less but dominated games, made teammates better, played in an actual college program that ran offensive sets. Not just "here douggy go shoot a 3" at Mickey Mouse college in bumble****. You're citing stats? Go look up Adam Morrison and tell me if scoring in NCAA automatically means star in NBA. It doesn't translate 1 to 1. You need the killer instinct like Jaylen and Michael. Once these college scorers meet real men who are twice as big and twice as fast as them against well coached NBA defensive sets, if they don't have that killer instinct and learn and get better they shrink and get lost in the history books.

If you're an engineer you'll understand that 3 or 4 games, in limited minutes, while being injured- is hardly a sample size to make any respectable judgement on.
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #92 on: October 25, 2017, 10:33:57 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If you're an engineer you'll understand that 3 or 4 games, in limited minutes, while being injured- is hardly a sample size to make any respectable judgement on.
It's funny you should say that, because engineers I work with routinely request econometric analysis on samples that are smaller than this one.
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #93 on: October 25, 2017, 10:49:35 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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So, he's either hurt, has the yips, or a combination of the two.  And possibly dealing with an incompetent organization who would rather trot him out there in October games rather than letting him heal or rest.  And if the agent is to be believed, why would the organization let him "grind it out".  Especially in October?

Just a weird situation.

I believe that they realized he's not NBA ready, tried to give him a few reps off the bench in ISO sets to sell some jerseys and tickets and he failed in that as well so plan C is fake injury while they train him.

That's a helluva conspiracy theory.

I'm an engineer so I look at all the facts and make the most likely conclusion. How else can you describe this bizarre situation ? We know he's not injured "can't lift his arm" or he wouldn't be playing. We know he's not NBA ready based on what we've seen. We know the sixers are "The Producers of broadway" NBA team. It's actually a highly plausible theory.

Do you also regularly bring up your status as an engineer in situations that have nothing to do with your expertise?  Being an engineer has nothing to do with your opinion on the inner workings of a professional sports organization, and bringing it up for no reason (in an apparent attempt to make your opinion look more qualified) just casts a negative light on engineering/engineers as a whole
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #94 on: October 25, 2017, 10:50:06 AM »

Offline Erik

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That's a college 3 vs really bad players. Scoring in college isn't indicative of NBA replication. Look at McDermott? He was shooting close to 50% from 3. And then people started guarding him in the NBA. People like Jordan scored less but dominated games, made teammates better, played in an actual college program that ran offensive sets. Not just "here douggy go shoot a 3" at Mickey Mouse college in bumble****. You're citing stats? Go look up Adam Morrison and tell me if scoring in NCAA automatically means star in NBA. It doesn't translate 1 to 1. You need the killer instinct like Jaylen and Michael. Once these college scorers meet real men who are twice as big and twice as fast as them against well coached NBA defensive sets, if they don't have that killer instinct and learn and get better they shrink and get lost in the history books.

If you're an engineer you'll understand that 3 or 4 games, in limited minutes, while being injured- is hardly a sample size to make any respectable judgement on.

1) There is no proof that he is injured. There's actually overwhelming proof to suggest that he isn't: Changing stories (casting doubt on the injury story), the fact that he's playing, etc.
2) 3 or 4 games will give you 3 or 4 data points to analyze. Can I make a conclusion that Fultz will be the worst prospect of all time based on that data? No. But I can certainly say that his performances indicate that he is trending towards a bust. Anyone that says "It's too early" doesn't understand that it's never too early to begin analyzing data. You start analyzing after 2 data points and continue to analyze as more data is collected. As of now, he's in the bust category. He is showing NOTHING that leads me to believe that he will have a career anything better than JR Smith.

So, he's either hurt, has the yips, or a combination of the two.  And possibly dealing with an incompetent organization who would rather trot him out there in October games rather than letting him heal or rest.  And if the agent is to be believed, why would the organization let him "grind it out".  Especially in October?

Just a weird situation.

I believe that they realized he's not NBA ready, tried to give him a few reps off the bench in ISO sets to sell some jerseys and tickets and he failed in that as well so plan C is fake injury while they train him.

That's a helluva conspiracy theory.

I'm an engineer so I look at all the facts and make the most likely conclusion. How else can you describe this bizarre situation ? We know he's not injured "can't lift his arm" or he wouldn't be playing. We know he's not NBA ready based on what we've seen. We know the sixers are "The Producers of broadway" NBA team. It's actually a highly plausible theory.

Do you also regularly bring up your status as an engineer in situations that have nothing to do with your expertise?  Being an engineer has nothing to do with your opinion on the inner workings of a professional sports organization, and bringing it up for no reason (in an apparent attempt to make your opinion look more qualified) just casts a negative light on engineering/engineers as a whole

No, I don't go to bars and tell the bartender that he isn't making the drink correctly citing my engineering education. But when it comes to analysis and logical reasoning, I have a feeling that I am more qualified to solve a problem than the average person. Instead of arguing with my background, why don't you instead take the more respectable approach and explain to all of us what you see in Fultz that has impressed you so far other than "he's just a kid." No, he's the #1 draft pick and supposedly a generational talent. Both Ball and Tatum are thriving and he looks like he's headed to the d league.

I'll wait.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 10:56:08 AM by Erik »

Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #95 on: October 25, 2017, 10:55:36 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I really hope for his sake they shut him down. I was also trying to think how often number 1 overall picks come off the bench. I would have to guess bennett did. Did anyone else in the last 10 years?

Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #96 on: October 25, 2017, 11:01:57 AM »

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I really hope for his sake they shut him down. I was also trying to think how often number 1 overall picks come off the bench. I would have to guess bennett did. Did anyone else in the last 10 years?

You're right on Bennett.  Oden started almost 66% of the games he played in his de facto rookie season.  Besides that, you have #1s starting the vast majority of their games.  Most starting every one their rookie year.


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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #97 on: October 25, 2017, 11:17:46 AM »

Offline bdm860

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I really hope for his sake they shut him down. I was also trying to think how often number 1 overall picks come off the bench. I would have to guess bennett did. Did anyone else in the last 10 years?

You're right on Bennett.  Oden started almost 66% of the games he played in his de facto rookie season.  Besides that, you have #1s starting the vast majority of their games.  Most starting every one their rookie year.

Have to go back more than 10 years, but Bargnani and Kwame Brown are the only other 2 in more recent times to not start the majority of their games that first year as a #1 pick.

Now if you want to find guys who didn't bust, you have to go all the way back to Mark Aguirre '81) and James Worthy ('82).

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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #98 on: October 25, 2017, 11:31:11 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Now if you want to find guys who didn't bust, you have to go all the way back to Mark Aguirre '81) and James Worthy ('82).
I assume you mean "guys who didn't start year 1 but didn't bust"?
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #99 on: October 25, 2017, 11:56:55 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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So, he's either hurt, has the yips, or a combination of the two.  And possibly dealing with an incompetent organization who would rather trot him out there in October games rather than letting him heal or rest.  And if the agent is to be believed, why would the organization let him "grind it out".  Especially in October?

Just a weird situation.

I believe that they realized he's not NBA ready, tried to give him a few reps off the bench in ISO sets to sell some jerseys and tickets and he failed in that as well so plan C is fake injury while they train him.

That's a helluva conspiracy theory.

I'm an engineer so I look at all the facts and make the most likely conclusion. How else can you describe this bizarre situation ? We know he's not injured "can't lift his arm" or he wouldn't be playing. We know he's not NBA ready based on what we've seen. We know the sixers are "The Producers of broadway" NBA team. It's actually a highly plausible theory.

Do you also regularly bring up your status as an engineer in situations that have nothing to do with your expertise?  Being an engineer has nothing to do with your opinion on the inner workings of a professional sports organization, and bringing it up for no reason (in an apparent attempt to make your opinion look more qualified) just casts a negative light on engineering/engineers as a whole

No, I don't go to bars and tell the bartender that he isn't making the drink correctly citing my engineering education. But when it comes to analysis and logical reasoning, I have a feeling that I am more qualified to solve a problem than the average person. Instead of arguing with my background, why don't you instead take the more respectable approach and explain to all of us what you see in Fultz that has impressed you so far other than "he's just a kid." No, he's the #1 draft pick and supposedly a generational talent. Both Ball and Tatum are thriving and he looks like he's headed to the d league.

I'll wait.

Note that I didn't say anything about how Fultz has impressed me (nor is the "he's just a kid" quote you included something I said...).  I'm not really sure where you even got that from, except from a general feeling that "He disagrees with me on this, therefore he must disagree on everything!".  You can wait for me to make an argument about something totally unrelated to what I said, but you'll be waiting for a while.

I have no problem with your opinion on Fultz (well, I do, but that's not relevant).  What I have a problem with is bringing up your background as an engineer as if it's at all relevant to your opinion on basketball.  (Also, note that that is not "arguing with your background".  Being an engineer does not give you advanced insight into basketball organizations or whether or not the 76ers are faking an injury.  Sorry.)

Let's be clear: I have no problem with you sharing whatever opinions you have.  What I do have a problem with is you acting like being an engineer gives you special insight into basketball or makes you smarter than everyone here.  You don't see Roy bringing up the fact that he's a lawyer in every discussion in an attempt to seem more qualified to talk about Smart's new shooting form, because it isn't relevant.  You don't see jpotter bringing his doctorate into discussions about salary cap rules, because it isn't relevant.  And you don't see the other engineers here (because, no, you are not the only one) bringing their profession into arguments about whether or not Fultz is actually injured vs. faking it to avoid looking bad because it isn't relevant.  I don't think I can say this enough: bringing up your profession when it has nothing to do with the situation/doesn't give you special insight (like in this case) just makes everyone else with that profession look bad.
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #100 on: October 25, 2017, 12:01:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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generally players that aren't injured don't get cortisone shots nor undergo physiotherapy.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21141852/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-had-cortisone-shot-shoulder
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #101 on: October 25, 2017, 12:13:31 PM »

Offline Big333223

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generally players that aren't injured don't get cortisone shots nor undergo physiotherapy.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21141852/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-had-cortisone-shot-shoulder
This is so strange to me. He supposedly can't lift his arms right so... why is he playing?

Also, his own agent doesn't know the difference between "having fluid drained" and "getting a cortisone shot." This whole situation is bizarre.
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #102 on: October 25, 2017, 12:13:56 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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generally players that aren't injured don't get cortisone shots nor undergo physiotherapy.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21141852/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-had-cortisone-shot-shoulder
Sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's "unable to lift his arm above his shoulder". Generally players that are that damaged don't play.
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Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #103 on: October 25, 2017, 12:16:13 PM »

Offline byennie

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No, I don't go to bars and tell the bartender that he isn't making the drink correctly citing my engineering education. But when it comes to analysis and logical reasoning, I have a feeling that I am more qualified to solve a problem than the average person. Instead of arguing with my background, why don't you instead take the more respectable approach and explain to all of us what you see in Fultz that has impressed you so far other than "he's just a kid." No, he's the #1 draft pick and supposedly a generational talent. Both Ball and Tatum are thriving and he looks like he's headed to the d league.

I'll wait.

Great, don't do it on a sports forum either. I'm a senior software engineer, I architect complex logic on a daily basis, I know plenty of people with advanced technical degrees and aptitude, blah blah blah. I'd be horrified if any of my peers went around taking the high ground in random arguments due to "being an engineer". Give me a break.

TL;DR; just stop, dude, you only come off as immature and condescending.

Re: Fultz hasn't attempted a field goal past 14 feet this season. (Injured?)
« Reply #104 on: October 25, 2017, 12:25:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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generally players that aren't injured don't get cortisone shots nor undergo physiotherapy.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21141852/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-had-cortisone-shot-shoulder
Sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's "unable to lift his arm above his shoulder". Generally players that are that damaged don't play.
I don't think that is necessarily true.  If there is no risk of causing harm (outside of the normal risk associated with playing), players play with all kinds of injuries all the time that they probably shouldn't be playing with and which could alter their mechanics in some way.  I mean Thomas last year was playing with/through the hip injury until he reinjured it causing too much pain. 
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