Author Topic: Thoughts going into the regular season?  (Read 4668 times)

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Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2021, 03:09:34 PM »

Offline JumpingJudkins

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2 years too early, but Brad was pushing for Romeo to have more of a ball handler-point guard role. What if he developed that part of his game over the next year or two?

What does a lineup of:

Rob Williams
Jaysun Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Aaron Nesmith
Romeo Langford

6th man - Payton Pritchard

Look like?
Hopefully Robert Williams will be gone by then..still don’t know why everyone thinks he going be a good starter..3rd stringer more like it..never was a fan of him

Because we watched Robert Williams play last year? Saw that third stringer block nine shots in a playoff game against the Nets while not 100 percent healthy.

Third stringer? Do you have him confused with Luke Kornet?

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2021, 04:53:22 PM »

Offline Big333223

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1. 5th starter and trickle-down thoughts on rotation:
It appears that Smart/Brown/Tatum/Timelord will start. I still have no idea who Ime will tab as the 5th starter. You can make legitimate arguments for any of Horford/Schroder/Richardson/Nesmith/Romeo/Juancho/Pritchard. That is a crazy 7 players that would not shock me if Ime chose them as a 5th starter. From reading the tea leaves in the preseason, I believe Ime wants to bring Schroder and Richardson off the bench. That still leaves 5 options (Horford/Nesmith/Romeo/Juancho/Pritchard). My hunch is that Ime will start the season bigger with Horford or Juancho as he has talked a lot about size, switchability on defense, and taking advantage of size advantages on offense. Personally, I would prefer starting Nesmith or even Pritchard as I think a catch-and-shoot player at the 2 around our core 4 starters is the greatest need. Nesmith ideally could thread the needle between providing off-ball shooting and having enough size to still switch a ton. I will be fascinated to see the choice for that 5th starter, and if Ime actually does commit to one choice for a long time (he says he wants too, but we seem to have a roster where that 5th spot could be very fluid).

If you are right that they want Schroeder and Richardson off the bench (I have not heard that but it is reasonable), then I think the 5th starter will certainly be Hernangomez.  I don't see Pritchard, Langford, or Nesmith as being ready either in terms of experience or skill to be the most productive with the starters.  With Horford, he may start instead of RWilliams but I don't see him starting with RWilliams.  It could happen, as you say, there are many combinations that could work in different ways, but I don't think Horford and RWilliams works well.

In the end, I think someone of the guards/wings is not going to get the minutes they probably should.

Romeo may be playing himself into opening night starting lineup.

Over who? I don’t see that happening this year or as long as Smart, Schroder and Richardson are on the team.

With Horford likely out opening night, I could definitely see a lineup of Smart, Langford, Brown, Tatum, and (hopefully) Williams.  Udoka might like to have veterans like Schröder and Richardson supporting the bench lineups.

Yeah, I just can’t see Langford starting over vets like Schroder or Richardson.
Why? All the reporting has been the Schroder signed with the understanding he'd be the team's 6th man and he seems cool with that now. I've been generally high on Richardson based on the idea that his offensive numbers are going to rebound a little but he his preseason hasn't given me any confidence that that's going to happen.

I don't think Romeo is going to be the starter but based on what we've seen in preseason, he'd be as good of an option as anyone else.
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Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2021, 05:21:13 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Here's a thought that I've been kicking around for a while now:  I'm not convinced that Richardson does much that Langford doesn't also do.  Good defense, some secondary slashing and basic playmaking off of the drive, and shaky floor spacing.  Richardson is a better midrange shooter, but that's a skill without much value unless the player is elite at it. 

For Richardson, the hope is that last year was an aberration and he can return to the useful player he was prior to his disastrous season with Dallas.  For Langford, the hope is that his slow start with the Celtics is generally due to injuries and he can start fulfilling that potential now that he appears to be healthy (knock on wood).  Both are gambles.  If there's a choice to be made between the two, I think I might side with Langford for the time being. 

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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1. 5th starter and trickle-down thoughts on rotation:
It appears that Smart/Brown/Tatum/Timelord will start. I still have no idea who Ime will tab as the 5th starter. You can make legitimate arguments for any of Horford/Schroder/Richardson/Nesmith/Romeo/Juancho/Pritchard. That is a crazy 7 players that would not shock me if Ime chose them as a 5th starter. From reading the tea leaves in the preseason, I believe Ime wants to bring Schroder and Richardson off the bench. That still leaves 5 options (Horford/Nesmith/Romeo/Juancho/Pritchard). My hunch is that Ime will start the season bigger with Horford or Juancho as he has talked a lot about size, switchability on defense, and taking advantage of size advantages on offense. Personally, I would prefer starting Nesmith or even Pritchard as I think a catch-and-shoot player at the 2 around our core 4 starters is the greatest need. Nesmith ideally could thread the needle between providing off-ball shooting and having enough size to still switch a ton. I will be fascinated to see the choice for that 5th starter, and if Ime actually does commit to one choice for a long time (he says he wants too, but we seem to have a roster where that 5th spot could be very fluid).

If you are right that they want Schroeder and Richardson off the bench (I have not heard that but it is reasonable), then I think the 5th starter will certainly be Hernangomez.  I don't see Pritchard, Langford, or Nesmith as being ready either in terms of experience or skill to be the most productive with the starters.  With Horford, he may start instead of RWilliams but I don't see him starting with RWilliams.  It could happen, as you say, there are many combinations that could work in different ways, but I don't think Horford and RWilliams works well.

In the end, I think someone of the guards/wings is not going to get the minutes they probably should.

Romeo may be playing himself into opening night starting lineup.

Over who? I don’t see that happening this year or as long as Smart, Schroder and Richardson are on the team.

With Horford likely out opening night, I could definitely see a lineup of Smart, Langford, Brown, Tatum, and (hopefully) Williams.  Udoka might like to have veterans like Schröder and Richardson supporting the bench lineups.

Yeah, I just can’t see Langford starting over vets like Schroder or Richardson.
Why? All the reporting has been the Schroder signed with the understanding he'd be the team's 6th man and he seems cool with that now. I've been generally high on Richardson based on the idea that his offensive numbers are going to rebound a little but he his preseason hasn't given me any confidence that that's going to happen.

I don't think Romeo is going to be the starter but based on what we've seen in preseason, he'd be as good of an option as anyone else.

I didn’t see any reports stating that Schroder was signing with the understanding that he would be coming off the bench as a 6th man. Pretty sure he was told that he’d be competing for a starting spot and in my opinion he has done enough to secure that. Schroder is clearly the best point guard on this Celtics team.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 06:11:11 PM by Goldstar88 »

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2021, 07:36:11 PM »

Online RodyTur10

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1. 5th starter and trickle-down thoughts on rotation:
It appears that Smart/Brown/Tatum/Timelord will start. I still have no idea who Ime will tab as the 5th starter. You can make legitimate arguments for any of Horford/Schroder/Richardson/Nesmith/Romeo/Juancho/Pritchard. That is a crazy 7 players that would not shock me if Ime chose them as a 5th starter. From reading the tea leaves in the preseason, I believe Ime wants to bring Schroder and Richardson off the bench. That still leaves 5 options (Horford/Nesmith/Romeo/Juancho/Pritchard). My hunch is that Ime will start the season bigger with Horford or Juancho as he has talked a lot about size, switchability on defense, and taking advantage of size advantages on offense. Personally, I would prefer starting Nesmith or even Pritchard as I think a catch-and-shoot player at the 2 around our core 4 starters is the greatest need. Nesmith ideally could thread the needle between providing off-ball shooting and having enough size to still switch a ton. I will be fascinated to see the choice for that 5th starter, and if Ime actually does commit to one choice for a long time (he says he wants too, but we seem to have a roster where that 5th spot could be very fluid).

If you are right that they want Schroeder and Richardson off the bench (I have not heard that but it is reasonable), then I think the 5th starter will certainly be Hernangomez.  I don't see Pritchard, Langford, or Nesmith as being ready either in terms of experience or skill to be the most productive with the starters.  With Horford, he may start instead of RWilliams but I don't see him starting with RWilliams.  It could happen, as you say, there are many combinations that could work in different ways, but I don't think Horford and RWilliams works well.

In the end, I think someone of the guards/wings is not going to get the minutes they probably should.

Romeo may be playing himself into opening night starting lineup.

Over who? I don’t see that happening this year or as long as Smart, Schroder and Richardson are on the team.

With Horford likely out opening night, I could definitely see a lineup of Smart, Langford, Brown, Tatum, and (hopefully) Williams.  Udoka might like to have veterans like Schröder and Richardson supporting the bench lineups.

Yeah, I just can’t see Langford starting over vets like Schroder or Richardson.
Why? All the reporting has been the Schroder signed with the understanding he'd be the team's 6th man and he seems cool with that now. I've been generally high on Richardson based on the idea that his offensive numbers are going to rebound a little but he his preseason hasn't given me any confidence that that's going to happen.

I don't think Romeo is going to be the starter but based on what we've seen in preseason, he'd be as good of an option as anyone else.

I didn’t see any reports stating that Schroder was signing with the understanding that he would be coming off the bench as a 6th man. Pretty sure he was told that he’d be competing for a starting spot and in my opinion he has done enough to secure that. Schroder is clearly the best point guard on this Celtics team.

Schröder is indeed our best point guard and Pritchard deserves a lot of minutes. Hard to play them both a lot together. Although it's contrary to what Udoka has done in the pre-season I think we need to play 'small' a lot of the time with either Tatum, Brown, Nesmith, Hernangomez or G-Will at the '4'.

Timelord and Horford can just share minutes at the '5', as it seems that Kanter is a bad fit for this roster now. He could fall out of the regular rotation.

In that case it's Schröder/Pritchard and Timelord/Horford, while the rest fill in the wing positions: Tatum, Brown, Smart, Nesmith, Langford, Richardson, G.Williams and Hernangomez. That'll be a big fight for minutes.

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2021, 12:17:21 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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Here's a thought that I've been kicking around for a while now:  I'm not convinced that Richardson does much that Langford doesn't also do.  Good defense, some secondary slashing and basic playmaking off of the drive, and shaky floor spacing.  Richardson is a better midrange shooter, but that's a skill without much value unless the player is elite at it. 

For Richardson, the hope is that last year was an aberration and he can return to the useful player he was prior to his disastrous season with Dallas.  For Langford, the hope is that his slow start with the Celtics is generally due to injuries and he can start fulfilling that potential now that he appears to be healthy (knock on wood).  Both are gambles.  If there's a choice to be made between the two, I think I might side with Langford for the time being.

Yeah I agree, that’s what I was alluding to on the previous page, and in fact Romeo flat out looks better on offense thus far.
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Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2021, 06:43:23 PM »

Offline footey

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Garrison Mathews agrees to a two way contract with Rockets.  After rejecting Celtics' two way offer?

Why?

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2021, 06:47:48 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Garrison Mathews agrees to a two way contract with Rockets.  After rejecting Celtics' two way offer?

Why?

Less competition to get in the Big Show.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2021, 06:50:01 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Garrison Mathews agrees to a two way contract with Rockets.  After rejecting Celtics' two way offer?

Why?
ugh…but probably more playing time at Houston
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2021, 07:55:08 PM »

Offline Ed Monix

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Horford is officially listed as inactive for the opening game, Brown is available.

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Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2021, 08:50:56 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I didn’t see any reports stating that Schroder was signing with the understanding that he would be coming off the bench as a 6th man. Pretty sure he was told that he’d be competing for a starting spot and in my opinion he has done enough to secure that. Schroder is clearly the best point guard on this Celtics team.

I don't think it is clear that Schroder is better than Smart at this point.  I think it is possible if not even likely that Schroder, as more of a pure or traditional PG, will emerge over time as the better fit with the 1st unit, but I don't expect the season to start that way.  Schroder is a different style of player than Smart but I don't know yet if he is better.

I see Smart as starting the season as the starting PG, Schroder as the back up.  We have a log jam at the PG/Combo guard role so I am afraid that Pritchard loses out some, which is unfortunate.  If Pritchard and Schroder play more at PG, then Smart will play more as SG, taking minutes from Richardson, Langford, and maybe Nesmith.  Someone is going to lose out here.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 09:02:04 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2021, 08:59:35 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Garrison Mathews agrees to a two way contract with Rockets.  After rejecting Celtics' two way offer?

Why?

Less competition to get in the Big Show.

I agree with this.  He was too good of a player to be on the Celtics on a 2-way.  He would have been behind Brown, Richardson, Smart (part time SG), Langford, and Nesmith to get minutes.  I don't know the roster in Houston but I suspect he has a better chance to get on the court.

I am fine with Brodrick Thomas on 2-way.  Hauser too.  More developmental or exploratory than actual redundancy but that is more what the 2-ways should be anyway.

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2021, 10:13:02 AM »

Offline tstorey_97

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One game at a time? Horford out against Knix

This one solves back court politics for this game at least. Smart really hasn't ever been a "starting point guard" for the Celtics...thus

Schroder
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Kanter


Josh
Langford
Nesmith
Pritchard
Grant
Robert

This bunch should make Knicks miserable.

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2021, 01:08:05 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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I didn’t see any reports stating that Schroder was signing with the understanding that he would be coming off the bench as a 6th man. Pretty sure he was told that he’d be competing for a starting spot and in my opinion he has done enough to secure that. Schroder is clearly the best point guard on this Celtics team.

I don't think it is clear that Schroder is better than Smart at this point. 

You mean either - better player; or better point guard. In either case, they both bring different things to the table. Smart doesn't have Schroeder's quickness with the ball or his penetration abilities, but as a secondary ballhandler he's bringing a lot. As a defender, starting him with Schroeder allows him to take the opposition's best wing scorer on defense, freeing up Jaylen's energy for scoring and to roam more on D.

I guess Smart is the better player, but there's only so far thinking about that sort of thing takes you. It's not a one-dimensional game, and putting everybody on a better/worse line ignores most of what wins you ball games.

We often think of this abstract 1-5 set of roles, with players more or less filling one of those roles; but I think we've got it the wrong way around when we do. It's not that Smart, for instance, is a better or worse point guard than Schroeder, it's that they've got a range of skills that a coach can deploy to get shot-creation, shot-making, and all the rest of it. Smart is great at orchestrating an offense, though he doesn't have Schroeder's quickness or finishing abilities. Brad used Smart on the ball (a lot of posting up, for instance) so that IT and Kyrie could play off the ball and use their movement to get open; Schroeder could potentially do that, too.

I see Smart as starting the season as the starting PG, Schroder as the back up.  We have a log jam at the PG/Combo guard role so I am afraid that Pritchard loses out some, which is unfortunate.

Schroeder/Smart and Smart/Pritchard combinations look workable, Schroeder/Pritchard less so because of defense. I'm not really seeing a log jam because of Smart's versatility.

If Pritchard and Schroder play more at PG, then Smart will play more as SG, taking minutes from Richardson, Langford, and maybe Nesmith.  Someone is going to lose out here.

I guess that's 'a good problem to have'. Yes, someone is going to lose out. But it's a long season, and all of those guys are going to get their chance. Competition is good!
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Thoughts going into the regular season?
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2021, 01:27:59 PM »

Offline JumpingJudkins

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One game at a time? Horford out against Knix

This one solves back court politics for this game at least. Smart really hasn't ever been a "starting point guard" for the Celtics...thus

Schroder
Smart
Brown
Tatum
Kanter


Josh
Langford
Nesmith
Pritchard
Grant
Robert

This bunch should make Knicks miserable.

So now Robert Williams isn't just behind Old Man Horford, he's behind Kanter too?