I still have Romeo over Nesmith

[Muzzy66]

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think either guy is sure thing or even close to that.  But of all the skills each guy possesses, the only one we know of nba level is Romeos defense.  And I’ll be honest, I think nesmiths defense is atrocious.  His lateral quickness is enes kanter level.  It may make him unplayable.  Summer league guys were going at him.

In terms of offense, nesmith obviously has more potential.  But I’m not sure actually a good offensive player in the nba.  He needs to be a 40% shooter to have a chance, and I’m concerned about him missing wide open shots, and in that last game, he had some god awful misses.  Misses you don’t see in a pure shooter.  Not counting him out but not a sure thing.  And I don’t see anything else he can contribute on offense.

Oddly, Romeo like a week younger too.

I'm not sure if there has been another Celtics team in the past 10 years that has more defensive depth then this team does right now.  If there is ANY one thing we have a plentiful supply of on this team it's perimeter defenders.  I don't see how we could possibly find use for a guy like Romeo who does nothing of value outside of defence, on a team that's stacked full of quality defenders. 

By comparison Nesmith is a shooter.  An excellent shooter. Has potential to become an elite shooter.  And one of the things this team is currently most lacking in is shooters - we need to make use of every shooter we have basically. 

As such, cant see any realistic scenario where Romeo gets playing time over Nesmith on this team.. 

I'm also not in agreement about Nesmith's defence.  He's got decent length and he plays hard, and I think he's perfectly capable of being a solid team defender - especially when surrounded by this much defensive talent. 

IMHO Nesmith is a hell of a lot better defensively then Romeo is offensively. 

[Muzzy66]

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think either guy is sure thing or even close to that.  But of all the skills each guy possesses, the only one we know of nba level is Romeos defense.  And I’ll be honest, I think nesmiths defense is atrocious.  His lateral quickness is enes kanter level.  It may make him unplayable.  Summer league guys were going at him.

In terms of offense, nesmith obviously has more potential.  But I’m not sure actually a good offensive player in the nba.  He needs to be a 40% shooter to have a chance, and I’m concerned about him missing wide open shots, and in that last game, he had some god awful misses.  Misses you don’t see in a pure shooter.  Not counting him out but not a sure thing.  And I don’t see anything else he can contribute on offense.

Oddly, Romeo like a week younger too.

Lateral quickness is the most overused term on this site. Players more often than not get beat because of uncertainty. His quickness and athleticism are fine. Your comparison is absurd.

I still have hope for Romeo, but he can't shoot. Shooting is the most important skill in the sport now, and Nesmith is very good at it, and Romeo isn't. If Romeo doesn't start showing he can find ways to get the ball in the bucket, I suspect we're about to watch his final season in green.

Thats cool; but your statement doesn’t mean anything.  I can do a cut up of Nesmiths defensive possessions against non nba players that shows my point.  Frankly, his lateral quickness is far from fine.

Yet he was able to put up consistently strong scoring performances against pretty much every summer league team he played against, while Romeo was utterly incapable of any type of consistent offensive production against summer league talent, nor was he able to put up competent offensive production against G league competition in the past - the same G league fodder that guys like Jordan Mickey, James Young and Taco Fall absolutely dominated. 

The problem with your evaluation is that you seem to look at this as there is only one dimension to basketball - one on one defence.  That's just not the realistic.  Romeo holding his opponent to 15 points instead of 19 points ultimately doesn't mean much if he is so bad on the offensive and that teams can completely ignore him, double/trap teammates, and the teams offensive efficiency.  Romeo is probably the worst offensive player we have had on a Celtics roster in the past decade.  We do not have enough scoring on this roster right now to be able to compensate for one completely useless offensive player being on the court. 

We DO have enough defensive talent on the roster to be able to cover for one poor defender being on the court, and for that reason I think no matter how bad Nesmith could be on D, he'll never hurt the team as much as Romeo does.   

Nesmith also has another plus - he's not injured 70% of the time.  Oh and he actually plays hard, unlike Romeo who seems to stand around aimlessly like he was just frozen in ice for 80 years. 

[Celtics4ever]

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think either guy is sure thing or even close to that.  But of all the skills each guy possesses, the only one we know of nba level is Romeos defense.  And I’ll be honest, I think nesmiths defense is atrocious.  His lateral quickness is enes kanter level.  It may make him unplayable.  Summer league guys were going at him.

In terms of offense, nesmith obviously has more potential.  But I’m not sure actually a good offensive player in the nba.  He needs to be a 40% shooter to have a chance, and I’m concerned about him missing wide open shots, and in that last game, he had some god awful misses.  Misses you don’t see in a pure shooter.  Not counting him out but not a sure thing.  And I don’t see anything else he can contribute on offense.

Oddly, Romeo like a week younger too.

Nesmith can be too aggressive on D, not give himself enough space to recover and has room to grow on D.   Nesmith's problems have more to do with his mind and stance than athletic ability.  Athletically he is fine, just bad technique but he looked a little better on summer league.  Too much waist bending and not enough knee bending.   On offense, as you note Aaron is way better. 

Romeo is so passive most of the time on offense.   He had two aggressive drives in summer league with dunks but was promptly hurt again.  No one can ever say that Aaron is too passive as he goes hard all the time.  Hopefully, he pulls it together with a tougher coach because the sands of time are running out for him to get it.

[Roy H.]

Romeo, to date, has been in the bottom 5% of guards offensively.  Our team is stacked with guards who are better on offense, and just as good or better on defense.

Unless Romeo makes major offensive strides, he’s unplayable.

[jambr380]

Romeo, to date, has been in the bottom 5% of guards offensively.  Our team is stacked with guards who are better on offense, and just as good or better on defense.

Unless Romeo makes major offensive strides, he’s unplayable.

Except every time he's been available, Brad has found plenty of playing time for him. I guess you mean he won't be playable because there are so many guys in front of him, but his versatility as a guard and wing defender has gotten him minutes and the coaching staff (Mazzulla most recently) is still singing his praises. I am not saying I think Romeo is a future star, or that Ime is all aboard the Romeo-wagon, but there is seemingly a lot more optimism in the organization than from fans.

[gift]

I'm curious to see what role either of these guys will have coming into the year with a new system and new veterans at the guard positions.

[slamtheking]

I too like Romeo more than Nesmith, when healthy.  That Romeo couldn't make it through 5 games of summer league is what has finally soured me on him.  His body, specifically his wrist/hand, just can't take the beating it seems.  It's been nearly three years since he was first hurt in the fall of 2018 back at Indiana.  Whether or not Romeo's on the roster, he's not going to be regularly available, and I hope we can get something of value of him.  Perhaps trading Dunn and Romeo for Anderson or Nance.

I've been optimistic about Romeo's future going into this year.  Summer League has started me souring on him as well.

and this statement "his wrist/hand, just can't take the beating it seems" is just begging for a comment that would get me in trouble on this site   

[Celtics2021]

I too like Romeo more than Nesmith, when healthy.  That Romeo couldn't make it through 5 games of summer league is what has finally soured me on him.  His body, specifically his wrist/hand, just can't take the beating it seems.  It's been nearly three years since he was first hurt in the fall of 2018 back at Indiana.  Whether or not Romeo's on the roster, he's not going to be regularly available, and I hope we can get something of value of him.  Perhaps trading Dunn and Romeo for Anderson or Nance.

I've been optimistic about Romeo's future going into this year.  Summer League has started me souring on him as well.

and this statement "his wrist/hand, just can't take the beating it seems" is just begging for a comment that would get me in trouble on this site   

 😳

[Roy H.]

Romeo, to date, has been in the bottom 5% of guards offensively.  Our team is stacked with guards who are better on offense, and just as good or better on defense.

Unless Romeo makes major offensive strides, he’s unplayable.

Except every time he's been available, Brad has found plenty of playing time for him. I guess you mean he won't be playable because there are so many guys in front of him, but his versatility as a guard and wing defender has gotten him minutes and the coaching staff (Mazzulla most recently) is still singing his praises. I am not saying I think Romeo is a future star, or that Ime is all aboard the Romeo-wagon, but there is seemingly a lot more optimism in the organization than from fans.

At guard, he’s got Brown, Smart, Richardson and Schroder ahead of him.  He’s less accomplished than Dunn, as well.

He might get some minutes at SF, but we’ve got Brown, Tatum and Nesmith there.

[Celtics2021]

Romeo, to date, has been in the bottom 5% of guards offensively.  Our team is stacked with guards who are better on offense, and just as good or better on defense.

Unless Romeo makes major offensive strides, he’s unplayable.

Except every time he's been available, Brad has found plenty of playing time for him. I guess you mean he won't be playable because there are so many guys in front of him, but his versatility as a guard and wing defender has gotten him minutes and the coaching staff (Mazzulla most recently) is still singing his praises. I am not saying I think Romeo is a future star, or that Ime is all aboard the Romeo-wagon, but there is seemingly a lot more optimism in the organization than from fans.

At guard, he’s got Brown, Smart, Richardson and Schroder ahead of him.  He’s less accomplished than Dunn, as well.

He might get some minutes at SF, but we’ve got Brown, Tatum and Nesmith there.

It would be very surprising if Kris Dunn got ahead of Langford.  I’d be fine with it, because that means Dunn has a lot more value than I’m expecting, but he got hurt at the end of January 2020, couldn’t get back on the court until late April 2021, and was completely ineffective upon his return.  Maybe another 3-4 months of rest and rehab will be what he needs, but it feels like wishful thinking to hope that these 3 months will go better than the prior 15.

Langford is definitely behind Smart and Richardson, and Schröder will probably get a few of those minutes too, in that those three will split the vast majority of guard minutes.  But people need to stop thinking about Dunn as a viable option ahead of Langford — Romeo has been the more valuable player the last 1.5 seasons, despite his own lack of availability and inconsistency.  We got Dunn because he’s cheaper than Thompson and came with a 2nd.  He’s valuable as an expiring that can bring back $6.35 million by himself, or be aggregated with another player in a few weeks to bring back more.

[Rosco917]

I like strong defenders too, but Romeo's offense is G League worthy, besides never being healthy. I would guess this year, unless significant strides are evident, he'll be gone.

[Big333223]

There's something about Romeo's poise when he's on the court that is enticing. I can't really quantify that, there's just something about the way he moves on the court that makes me think there's something there.

That said, Nesmith has shown more and is a more natural fit alongside the J's as someone who is already good at moving without the ball and spotting up.

[Roy H.]

Through two seasons:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=langfro01&player_id2=yabusgu01

That’s why there’s some pessimism.

[Celtics2021]

Through two seasons:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=langfro01&player_id2=yabusgu01

That’s why there’s some pessimism.

On the plus side, Romeo's playoff performances have been better than his regular season.  Heck, his career playoff advanced stats are all better than Fournier's.

[Vermont Green]

We now have a pretty deep Guard/Wing roster:

Tatum
Brown
Smart
Schroder
Richardson
Pritchard
Dunn

That is 7 established players vying for maybe 3.5 spots.  There will not be that much left for Langford or Nesmith (even if Dunn is behind them).  Of the two, I think Nesmith currently holds more promise.  Langford has had more opportunity (1 additional season) but just hasn't gotten over the hump.  Nesmith is still raw to me, but seems closer to being a rotation player.

I have not given up on either one at this point.  Both have shown flashes so I feel both still have some potential to get their.  Showing potential and actually doing it are two very different things of course.