Author Topic: Standing against Asian Hate  (Read 14848 times)

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Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2021, 01:08:20 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Another consideration is that this is a hate crime against women rather than against Asians.
Yep. Sexism is a form of racism. There are numerous forms of racism: ethnic-based racism, religious-based racism, gender-based racism, you name it.
No it isn't.  Racism is about a person's race.  Not their gender.  Not their sexual orientation.
Not necessarily. Here's a quote from wiki.

Quote from: wikipedia
The ideology underlying racism can manifest in many aspects of social life. Such aspects are described in this section, although the list is not exhaustive.
Cultural
Economic
Institutional
Othering
Supremacism
Symbolic/modern
Subconscious biases

Since you went to Wikipedia, below is their definition of racism and sexism.  Racism is about race and ethnicity.  Sexism is about gender.  They are not the same and sexism is not a form of racism.  Any form of discrimination is going to manifest itself in the various social aspects of life regardless of whether the discrimination is based on race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc. 

Quote
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.[1][2][3][4] It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.

Quote
Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls.[1] It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles,[2][3] and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another.

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2021, 01:26:19 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Stereotyping and racial bias is nothing new in America or (I would think) in other parts of the world.  Sometimes it plays out more covertly and subconsciously, sometimes it plays out more overtly.  We seem to be in a current wave of more overt displays of race based verbal and physical attacks. The impact of even what might be considered the mildest of attacks is certainly individually experienced, but no doubt that many Asians in America are feeling threatened and at least uncomfortable with this fresh wave at antagonistic comments.

It’s impossible to know whether what’s happening in America is any worse than in other countries, but I will say that it’s my guess that the potential benefits of your girlfriend coming to America to study will outweigh the risks (easy for me to say). There are many Asian Americans living in my town - of course I can’t be certain that they haven’t been harassed but I’d not only be taken aback in surprise if I witnessed this in my town, I most certainly would say something to make it clear that I don’t agree with or approve of the comments. I’ve done so in other circumstances and wouldn’t hesitate.

I done believe racial bias will ever end - it’s a part of the reality of how we live.  But the more we communicate and integrate the better — and the more our leaders model decency toward one another rather than enmity toward any who are “different” than ourselves the better as well.

Yeah I don’t think it will ever end either and you’re right, it just seems more overt now. For sure the benefits of her studying there far outweigh the risks and hopefully, those risks don’t come to fruition

In any case, I appreciate how much of a stand up person you seem to be, and hopefully you continue being a person worth emulating when it comes to treating others with respect. TP
- LilRip

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2021, 01:38:35 PM »

Offline LilRip

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I’m not sure who here doesn’t stand against racism, but I feel like we’re not the best target audience for this suggestion.

Is there anyone here that wouldn’t speak up if they hear someone discriminating against someone due to aspects of their life that they have no control over?

To your point for her safety, please tune out the nonsense that you hear in the news. Even if someone is racist in America, it’s rare for them to act on it. More overt racism happens elsewhere or in states that she probably won’t be visiting.

Maybe you’re not. But I just wanted to say it because 1) i think it’s a positive message that’s still worth repeating, and 2) this is a predominantly-US forum (I assume) which I honestly don’t have many other outlets of.

I mean, I don’t live in the US and majority of my friends who live in the US are Asians. Posting my message on my social media would’ve been preaching to the choir, which might get me some nice likes, but ultimately gets me nowhere.

So yeah, I guess I just wanted it out there, read by people with more diversity. Maybe it’s just reinforcement of what you already do on the regular and a message of appreciation for when you stand for something right.

- LilRip

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2021, 01:43:38 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Another consideration is that this is a hate crime against women rather than against Asians.
Yep. Sexism is a form of racism. There are numerous forms of racism: ethnic-based racism, religious-based racism, gender-based racism, you name it.
No it isn't.  Racism is about a person's race.  Not their gender.  Not their sexual orientation.
Not necessarily. Here's a quote from wiki.

Quote from: wikipedia
The ideology underlying racism can manifest in many aspects of social life. Such aspects are described in this section, although the list is not exhaustive.
Cultural
Economic
Institutional
Othering
Supremacism
Symbolic/modern
Subconscious biases

Since you went to Wikipedia, below is their definition of racism and sexism.  Racism is about race and ethnicity.  Sexism is about gender.  They are not the same and sexism is not a form of racism.  Any form of discrimination is going to manifest itself in the various social aspects of life regardless of whether the discrimination is based on race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc. 

Quote
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.[1][2][3][4] It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.

Quote
Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls.[1] It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles,[2][3] and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another.
Scroll down a bit and you'll see the following quote:

''It is commonly agreed that racism existed before the coinage of the word, but there is not a wide agreement on a single definition of what racism is and what it is not. Today, some scholars of racism prefer to use the concept in the plural racisms, in order to emphasize its many different forms that do not easily fall under a single definition''.

Scroll down a bit more and you'll find my initial quote.

The term is widely used to describe all forms of discrimination. If you wanna focus only on race prejudice, that's up to you.

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2021, 01:48:29 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I’m not sure who here doesn’t stand against racism, but I feel like we’re not the best target audience for this suggestion.

Is there anyone here that wouldn’t speak up if they hear someone discriminating against someone due to aspects of their life that they have no control over?

To your point for her safety, please tune out the nonsense that you hear in the news. Even if someone is racist in America, it’s rare for them to act on it. More overt racism happens elsewhere or in states that she probably won’t be visiting.

Maybe you’re not. But I just wanted to say it because 1) i think it’s a positive message that’s still worth repeating, and 2) this is a predominantly-US forum (I assume) which I honestly don’t have many other outlets of.

I mean, I don’t live in the US and majority of my friends who live in the US are Asians. Posting my message on my social media would’ve been preaching to the choir, which might get me some nice likes, but ultimately gets me nowhere.

So yeah, I guess I just wanted it out there, read by people with more diversity. Maybe it’s just reinforcement of what you already do on the regular and a message of appreciation for when you stand for something right.
Your girlfriend is much, much more likely to suffer violence and other bad behavior due to her gender rather than her being Asian.  That's true in America and most likely wherever else she goes in the world. 

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2021, 02:00:22 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I’m not sure who here doesn’t stand against racism, but I feel like we’re not the best target audience for this suggestion.

Is there anyone here that wouldn’t speak up if they hear someone discriminating against someone due to aspects of their life that they have no control over?

To your point for her safety, please tune out the nonsense that you hear in the news. Even if someone is racist in America, it’s rare for them to act on it. More overt racism happens elsewhere or in states that she probably won’t be visiting.

Maybe you’re not. But I just wanted to say it because 1) i think it’s a positive message that’s still worth repeating, and 2) this is a predominantly-US forum (I assume) which I honestly don’t have many other outlets of.

I mean, I don’t live in the US and majority of my friends who live in the US are Asians. Posting my message on my social media would’ve been preaching to the choir, which might get me some nice likes, but ultimately gets me nowhere.

So yeah, I guess I just wanted it out there, read by people with more diversity. Maybe it’s just reinforcement of what you already do on the regular and a message of appreciation for when you stand for something right.
Your girlfriend is much, much more likely to suffer violence and other bad behavior due to her gender rather than her being Asian.  That's true in America and most likely wherever else she goes in the world.

It may also be worth saying -- depending on where she lives/ goes to school and conducts her social life -- that she may experience very little of not any direct discrimination or racist comments.

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2021, 02:14:32 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Another consideration is that this is a hate crime against women rather than against Asians.
Yep. Sexism is a form of racism. There are numerous forms of racism: ethnic-based racism, religious-based racism, gender-based racism, you name it.
No it isn't.  Racism is about a person's race.  Not their gender.  Not their sexual orientation.
Not necessarily. Here's a quote from wiki.

Quote from: wikipedia
The ideology underlying racism can manifest in many aspects of social life. Such aspects are described in this section, although the list is not exhaustive.
Cultural
Economic
Institutional
Othering
Supremacism
Symbolic/modern
Subconscious biases

Since you went to Wikipedia, below is their definition of racism and sexism.  Racism is about race and ethnicity.  Sexism is about gender.  They are not the same and sexism is not a form of racism.  Any form of discrimination is going to manifest itself in the various social aspects of life regardless of whether the discrimination is based on race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc. 

Quote
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.[1][2][3][4] It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.

Quote
Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls.[1] It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles,[2][3] and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another.
Scroll down a bit and you'll see the following quote:

''It is commonly agreed that racism existed before the coinage of the word, but there is not a wide agreement on a single definition of what racism is and what it is not. Today, some scholars of racism prefer to use the concept in the plural racisms, in order to emphasize its many different forms that do not easily fall under a single definition''.

Scroll down a bit more and you'll find my initial quote.

The term is widely used to describe all forms of discrimination. If you wanna focus only on race prejudice, that's up to you.
Racism isn't widely used to describe all forms of discrimination.  Not in the media or social media.  Not in every day life.  Not in dictionaries.  Not even in the Wikipedia racism page where it clearly and often states racism is about race and ethnicity.  Heck at the very top of the racism page, it even states racism should not be confused with discrimination by skin color.
 

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2021, 02:26:35 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I’m not sure who here doesn’t stand against racism, but I feel like we’re not the best target audience for this suggestion.

Is there anyone here that wouldn’t speak up if they hear someone discriminating against someone due to aspects of their life that they have no control over?

To your point for her safety, please tune out the nonsense that you hear in the news. Even if someone is racist in America, it’s rare for them to act on it. More overt racism happens elsewhere or in states that she probably won’t be visiting.

Maybe you’re not. But I just wanted to say it because 1) i think it’s a positive message that’s still worth repeating, and 2) this is a predominantly-US forum (I assume) which I honestly don’t have many other outlets of.

I mean, I don’t live in the US and majority of my friends who live in the US are Asians. Posting my message on my social media would’ve been preaching to the choir, which might get me some nice likes, but ultimately gets me nowhere.

So yeah, I guess I just wanted it out there, read by people with more diversity. Maybe it’s just reinforcement of what you already do on the regular and a message of appreciation for when you stand for something right.
Your girlfriend is much, much more likely to suffer violence and other bad behavior due to her gender rather than her being Asian.  That's true in America and most likely wherever else she goes in the world.

It may also be worth saying -- depending on where she lives/ goes to school and conducts her social life -- that she may experience very little of not any direct discrimination or racist comments.
I'd say her likelihood of experiencing any significant discrimination based on being Asian is very low regardless of where she lives/ goes to school and conducts her social life in America. 

On the other hand, there's a good chance she's already dealt with some gender based discrimination.  Now to put that in perspective whatever discrimination she may have dealt with is in all likelihood much, much less than whatever her mother and grandmother dealt with. 

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2021, 02:42:41 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Another consideration is that this is a hate crime against women rather than against Asians.
Yep. Sexism is a form of racism. There are numerous forms of racism: ethnic-based racism, religious-based racism, gender-based racism, you name it.
No it isn't.  Racism is about a person's race.  Not their gender.  Not their sexual orientation.
Not necessarily. Here's a quote from wiki.

Quote from: wikipedia
The ideology underlying racism can manifest in many aspects of social life. Such aspects are described in this section, although the list is not exhaustive.
Cultural
Economic
Institutional
Othering
Supremacism
Symbolic/modern
Subconscious biases

Since you went to Wikipedia, below is their definition of racism and sexism.  Racism is about race and ethnicity.  Sexism is about gender.  They are not the same and sexism is not a form of racism.  Any form of discrimination is going to manifest itself in the various social aspects of life regardless of whether the discrimination is based on race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc. 

Quote
Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.[1][2][3][4] It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.

Quote
Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls.[1] It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles,[2][3] and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another.
Scroll down a bit and you'll see the following quote:

''It is commonly agreed that racism existed before the coinage of the word, but there is not a wide agreement on a single definition of what racism is and what it is not. Today, some scholars of racism prefer to use the concept in the plural racisms, in order to emphasize its many different forms that do not easily fall under a single definition''.

Scroll down a bit more and you'll find my initial quote.

The term is widely used to describe all forms of discrimination. If you wanna focus only on race prejudice, that's up to you.
Racism isn't widely used to describe all forms of discrimination.  Not in the media or social media.  Not in every day life.  Not in dictionaries.  Not even in the Wikipedia racism page where it clearly and often states racism is about race and ethnicity.  Heck at the very top of the racism page, it even states racism should not be confused with discrimination by skin color.
Come on mate. Feel free to use the word only when it comes to racial discrimination. Please bear in mind that plenty of people use it to describe all forms of discrimination. This seems rather obvious to me.

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2021, 02:56:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Always learning on here....learned today that sexism is a form of racism? I have to read more on that, but I digress.

There are serious problems in this country most propelled by corporate greed. Corporate greed is the bane of American society. It promotes celebrity, and then uses the celebs to manipulate the populace into buying their products. Because of the culture of celebrity the country has ceded serious public policy issues to uneducated celebrities, that do not even understand the extent to which they further the very problems they claim to oppose.

The truth, and you can hide from it if you want, is that America is not race-neutral, therefore by my definition it is a racist country. The country must confront this reality and embark on a program to educate people on, and prescribe policies that promote race-neutrality.

There are too many race opportunists in this country otherwise how do the killings in Atlanta become a race issue?Answer is Opportunitism. The race opportunists latched on to the killings as their chance to get into the Race race. They see how Blacks and Latinos have used race and ethnicity to gain advantages, and they seized on this as their opportunity to get in on the action.

These are serious issues that cannot be confronted without the truth that the country has been pitting the races against each other. It has become a competition, not of ideas or merit, but race. Kamala Harris hit the trifecta - female, black, and Asian. Add her marriage to a Jewish man and her opponents for VP had no chance. Is she ready for that position? Come on now, she could not even make it to IOWA.

Asians are complaining about racism? How did Asians treat Blacks in LA when they moved into South Central. In the 80s some Asian countries had travel advisories warning their citizens to avoid Blacks and Black areas in America.

You want to solve this problem, be real about it. Don’t expect that from politicians though, they just politicize the issues.

I am a firm believer in education, in pro action and not reaction. The Democrats need to stop the overemphasis on race, the liberal media too, the GOP assuming there is still a GOP should remove their collective head from their butt and confront the issue of race not defensively but offensively. It won’t be comfortable but it should be done.

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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We should indeed stand up to racism.  Beyond violence, anti-Asian racism is prevalent in the admissions process of many colleges and universities.  Race shouldn’t be us d as a negative against anybody.

At the same time, I’m not sure the Georgia case was based on racial hatred.  It could be, but I think there’s just as much evidence that this was based upon a mentally ill man’s sex practices.
A lot of people were really, really eager to push the racial hate agenda with this story when there's probably a better than good chance that racism wasn't at play here.  This could well have been a mental illness and sex thing and I would argue that people running around who are mentally ill - and not being treated - are a far bigger problem.

By the way these were 24 hour massage parlors - in several of which I'm guessing you can get more than a massage if you want to pay for it (seriously who needs a massage at 3:30 AM?).  Let's wait for the facts to come out.

My experience is even folks who are blatantly racist wouldn't go to the point of displaying it to someone and even worse attacking someone over it.  More often it comes in the form of a sarcastic off-hand comment. 

There are too many mentally ill people out there who should be locked up but aren't.  I personally know of people who live in fear of their mentally ill kids one day going off the ledge and killing someone. They can't get them committed anywhere, don't have the finances to pay for it themselves, and as a result these people are out in the general population - kind of like ticking time bombs.

The self loathing in America over racism - perpetuated by the main stream media is really out of control. They just can't wait to play that card - facts be [dang]ed - they'll just twist them fit the storyline.

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2021, 03:19:34 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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We should indeed stand up to racism.  Beyond violence, anti-Asian racism is prevalent in the admissions process of many colleges and universities.  Race shouldn’t be us d as a negative against anybody.

At the same time, I’m not sure the Georgia case was based on racial hatred.  It could be, but I think there’s just as much evidence that this was based upon a mentally ill man’s sex practices.
A lot of people were really, really eager to push the racial hate agenda with this story when there's probably a better than good chance that racism wasn't at play here.  This could well have been a mental illness and sex thing and I would argue that people running around who are mentally ill - and not being treated - are a far bigger problem.

By the way these were 24 hour massage parlors - in several of which I'm guessing you can get more than a massage if you want to pay for it (seriously who needs a massage at 3:30 AM?).  Let's wait for the facts to come out.

My experience is even folks who are blatantly racist wouldn't go to the point of displaying it to someone and even worse attacking someone over it.  More often it comes in the form of a sarcastic off-hand comment. 

There are too many mentally ill people out there who should be locked up but aren't.  I personally know of people who live in fear of their mentally ill kids one day going off the ledge and killing someone. They can't get them committed anywhere, don't have the finances to pay for it themselves, and as a result these people are out in the general population - kind of like ticking time bombs.

The self loathing in America over racism - perpetuated by the main stream media is really out of control. They just can't wait to play that card - facts be [dang]ed - they'll just twist them fit the storyline.

Why should this part matter at all?


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Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2021, 03:47:13 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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We should indeed stand up to racism.  Beyond violence, anti-Asian racism is prevalent in the admissions process of many colleges and universities.  Race shouldn’t be us d as a negative against anybody.

At the same time, I’m not sure the Georgia case was based on racial hatred.  It could be, but I think there’s just as much evidence that this was based upon a mentally ill man’s sex practices.
A lot of people were really, really eager to push the racial hate agenda with this story when there's probably a better than good chance that racism wasn't at play here.  This could well have been a mental illness and sex thing and I would argue that people running around who are mentally ill - and not being treated - are a far bigger problem.

By the way these were 24 hour massage parlors - in several of which I'm guessing you can get more than a massage if you want to pay for it (seriously who needs a massage at 3:30 AM?).  Let's wait for the facts to come out.

My experience is even folks who are blatantly racist wouldn't go to the point of displaying it to someone and even worse attacking someone over it.  More often it comes in the form of a sarcastic off-hand comment. 

There are too many mentally ill people out there who should be locked up but aren't.  I personally know of people who live in fear of their mentally ill kids one day going off the ledge and killing someone. They can't get them committed anywhere, don't have the finances to pay for it themselves, and as a result these people are out in the general population - kind of like ticking time bombs.

The self loathing in America over racism - perpetuated by the main stream media is really out of control. They just can't wait to play that card - facts be [dang]ed - they'll just twist them fit the storyline.

This comment in bold is far more dangerous than the racist speculation IMO.  It isn't dangerous for our society to be alert or sometimes even over-sensitive to discrimination, to racial biases, to stereotyping or blatant racist acts -- especially when such things often emerge from the subconscious and people who commit them will often deny any race-based intent.  I fully admit that labeling people "racists" without adequate evidence is wrong and unfair, and it is true that people often jump to that conclusion prematurely.  But talking about race-based actions when there is some evidence to suggest that race may be a factor (and btw I am guessing that I think race is a factor more often than you do) is the right thing the do.  We shouldn't draw racist conclusions prematurely but we certainly should consider it a possibility when there is some reason for that type of consideration.  In the Atlanta shooting there is certainly adequate reason to consider it.

If I can just be frank about this for a minute -- I think there is a knee-jerk reaction from the right to NOT consider anything racist simply because they don't ever want to be considered to be agreeing with a liberal. This politically driven opining rather than evidence or truth-based opining is obviously a larger problem on both sides. 

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2021, 03:48:22 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Stereotyping and racial bias is nothing new in America or (I would think) in other parts of the world.  Sometimes it plays out more covertly and subconsciously, sometimes it plays out more overtly.  We seem to be in a current wave of more overt displays of race based verbal and physical attacks. The impact of even what might be considered the mildest of attacks is certainly individually experienced, but no doubt that many Asians in America are feeling threatened and at least uncomfortable with this fresh wave at antagonistic comments.

It’s impossible to know whether what’s happening in America is any worse than in other countries, but I will say that it’s my guess that the potential benefits of your girlfriend coming to America to study will outweigh the risks (easy for me to say). There are many Asian Americans living in my town - of course I can’t be certain that they haven’t been harassed but I’d not only be taken aback in surprise if I witnessed this in my town, I most certainly would say something to make it clear that I don’t agree with or approve of the comments. I’ve done so in other circumstances and wouldn’t hesitate.

I done believe racial bias will ever end - it’s a part of the reality of how we live.  But the more we communicate and integrate the better — and the more our leaders model decency toward one another rather than enmity toward any who are “different” than ourselves the better as well.

Yeah I don’t think it will ever end either and you’re right, it just seems more overt now. For sure the benefits of her studying there far outweigh the risks and hopefully, those risks don’t come to fruition

In any case, I appreciate how much of a stand up person you seem to be, and hopefully you continue being a person worth emulating when it comes to treating others with respect. TP
"Discriminations" happening today are more pushed and publicized but they are most definitely not more overt.  How is anything today more overt than blacks riding at the back of the bus, separate but equal education, and not being able to eat in restaurants and stay in motels?  Until the 1967 Loving decision, interracial marriage and even interracial sex was illegal in some states.  Don't just look south.  Boston had plenty of fun with school desegregation in the 70s and 80s. 

As for women, they were supposed to get a husband and then stay at home and take care of the kids.  Husbands of course controlled the marital assets.  Until 1974, a woman could be denied her own credit card unless her husband or father approved.  As for gays and other deviants, better just stay in the closet. 

There is still plenty of room for improvement but over the past 50 or so years there has been great progress made across the board in the US. 

Re: Standing against Asian Hate
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2021, 05:38:51 PM »

Offline gouki88

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 Did anyone here two White women were also killed in the attack.  And this was not a hate crime. He did this because of his sex addiction in his own words.
So he killed them because they were women? Or because of their job? The former is definitely a hate crime 
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