NFL 2021 Season

[Moranis]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative. 

[Neurotic Guy]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

My only complaint is that you know running the ball has been tough, Jones lays out 2 perfect passes over the middle to open receivers to get the OT drive rolling (one dropped) and then — when it felt to me that Dallas was a little on their heels — they run twice to start the next series.     1st and 10 ok, but then 2nd (was it 5?). Give Mac 2 tries from the air.  I’m not surprised they ran on 2nd down, but I wish they hadn’t.

[jambr380]

It sucks, because the Pats could so easily be 5-1 this season with just a single different bounce in each game. It happens and that is often a sign of coaching, but I'm not going to freak out either. I agree that our high salary supposed impact players aren't making enough of a difference.

Obviously Brady is the greatest of all-time, but I'm not going to pretend that he didn't see a perfect opportunity in TB and get out at exactly the right time.

Almost impossible to come back from 4 losses this early in the season, but I'll continue to be excited about Jones' progress. And let's be real, how often do rookie QBs win SBs?

[nickagneta]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

[Moranis]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Jones is good and should just keep getting better, but I think this season is pretty much already lost in terms of playoffs—at this point, the Pats will be fortunate if they can get to 8-9 or 9-8, but even that might not get them into the playoffs.

The high-priced offseason additions seem to be mostly not helping much, and I still maintain—as I have for quite some time—that McDaniels is not particularly good at his job; I think he gets too cute in the red zone, and when he finds something that works, doesn't stick with it enough. Plus, with White done for the season, they don't have a particularly good pass catcher out of the backfield, and the O-line is injury riddled. I don't know how you overcome all of that.

[nickagneta]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

[Vermont Green]

The problem in the Dallas game, and most others, is that our offensive and defensive lines have been out played.  This is really sad to see.  For years, our offensive line was really good and our D-line was good enough.  There is a baseline of protection that you need on offense and a baseline of pressure on defense that you have to have to be able to do anything, conservative, aggressive, whatever.  We are not getting either.

This game was not as close as the score.  Dallas gave us penalties, turnovers, and a botched coverage that resulted in a 75 yard TD.  Without all that, we get smoked.  Now we had some mistakes also but Dallas had 567 total yards.  They did whatever they wanted on offense whenever they wanted and it was largely due to their O-line winning against our D-line.  Prescott was comfortable all game.  Jones was rushed all game.

[Goldstar88]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

But Nick, whose fault is this?

[Moranis]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

I watched most of the Dallas game, Tampa game, and parts of some of the others.  I saw the Patriots blow those games with their conservative play calling. 

It is a lot easier to blitz if you know the offense is going to do the same thing every time.  The Patriots are incredibly predictable. 

[nickagneta]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

But Nick, whose fault is this?

Who cares ho's fault it is. It's what happens after 20 years of brilliance and you need to rebuild.

[Moranis]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

But Nick, whose fault is this?

Who cares ho's fault it is. It's what happens after 20 years of brilliance and you need to rebuild.

You mean 20 years of Tom Brady

[nickagneta]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

I watched most of the Dallas game, Tampa game, and parts of some of the others.  I saw the Patriots blow those games with their conservative play calling. 

It is a lot easier to blitz if you know the offense is going to do the same thing every time.  The Patriots are incredibly predictable.

As I said, blitzing is a product of the QB being a rookie, as well as predictability. That's why the Pats have had Meyers throwing passes. That's why they have Jones running out to WR and Harris taking direct snaps(this is definitely setting up a pass to Jones in the future). Part is game plan but most is the fact the Pats injury issues, lack of deep threats and now no receivers out of the backfield plus a rookie QB. Bringing people on the regular to a team with these issues is Defensive Coordinator 101. That's why it's been happening since game 1.

Jones has been pressured, blitzed and knocked down in the top three of all QBs this year in each category. That he has only being sacked at the 10th most amount of times is a testament to his quick reads and releases to check downs. Trying to open things up would only get this kid killed. He doesn't have the time now to go down field on the regular. What makes anyone believe he will time to throw more down field if they try to force things that aren't there? Doing so is only going to get Mac injured.

Fact is the Pats best chance to win is to play conservatively on offense, trying to establish the run, win the time of possession game and not forcing the ball down field to guys that aren't open and possibly creating INTs. It's working. They were just one play away in each game from being 5-1. They have to straddle that razor's edge and be nearly perfect to win. But that's hard to do with a QB that can't perfectly read the defense instantly at the line of scrimmage and doesn't have the full playbook available to him to audible to.

Jones is 6 games into his career. Let him learn while preserving his health. Wins and losses at this point aren't important. Developing Jones to reach his ceiling is. And Belichick knows a thing or two about how to do that just like he knows why he has to gameplay like he is doing because Belichick destroys opposing rookie QBs. He knows what's coming and how best to protect his prospect accordingly.

[nickagneta]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

But Nick, whose fault is this?

Who cares ho's fault it is. It's what happens after 20 years of brilliance and you need to rebuild.

You mean 20 years of Tom Brady

And Gronk, Edelman, Moss, Welker,  White, Thuney, Solder, Vollmer, Andrews, Amendola, Gostkowski, Vinatieri, Wilfork, Jones, McGinest, Harrison, Seymour, Mayo, Law, Milloy, Bruschi, Troy Brown, Gilmore, Faulk, Vrabel, Dillon, Samuel, Hightower, Collins, Trent Brown, McCourty, etc., etc., etc.

[Goldstar88]

The Pats have been playing this year with a very conservative gameplan.  them losing another close game should not be a surprise because when you coach conservatively you lose more times then you win, especially when your roster on the whole isn't very good.  That said, Bill has that job until he doesn't want that job.  McDaniels, though, I think he could start to see his seat get warm if he continues down this playing not to lose path.  He has to take the reigns off and let Mac go.  He may fail, but at least you get to see what you have in him.

Pats have to be conservative right now. They are playing with a patchwork offensive line. They don't have receivers that can create separation that opens up the vertical game. Their best and really only receiving back is out for the season. Their best receiving options are good but not great or dominant TEs. And they have a rookie QB, that even though has played incredibly for his age and experience, needs to be managed properly for the team to win.

For the Patriots to win this year, they have to win the time of possession. They have to have a sustained running game. They have to kill it with the double TE sets during passing downs because the WRs are not explosive, fast or large and powerful.

The Pats need to walk a fine line to win versus the best teams in this league, and the are trying like hell to do it. But all it takes is splay or two and things will go sideways quick.

This is a rebuilding year, lots of money spent in free agency or not. Develop Jones the right way. That is the most important thing to do. He has been about the best rookie in the league. He will pay dividends, just not this year, so you don't ruin his confidence or get him killed or let him think he doesn't have the chance to be the difference maker in winning.

The Pats will be fine but if people are expecting long playoff runs or 10+ win season this year, they're just fooling themselves.

I actually disagree with your conclusion.  When your OL isn't that good, you need to create big explosive plays.  You can't play the conservative game, because they aren't going to be able to hang on long enough.  The Pats need to score fast and get the OL off the field.  They need to let Mac go and see if he really can be the long term guy. 

I do agree it is a rebuilding year, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to win games.  They are playing not to lose and not playing to win.  They should have beaten Miami, Tampa, and Dallas, but failed because they didn't trust Mac to go out and win the game.

Absolutely ridiculous.

To develop the vertical passing game you need an O-line to give the QB and receivers time to make the play develop, unless the WRs are super fast and able to create separation on a regular basis. And that's if the defense is playing man and not hanging coverage 2 on the backside.

And....at this point, the best interest of the team as a whole is to have long sustained drives to keep the defense off the field. That means running the ball with high percentage completion passing game mixed in.

Your idea of developing a QB is asinine. You bring them along at a slower pace and manage them. You don't hang them out to dry and get them pulverized because they are sitting back there waiting for plays to develop. You don't kill their confidence. You don't make them feel like they have to be a hero for the team to win.

Given the injuries and personnel, Belichick is handling Jones perfectly. Mac is getting better every week. They are adding new wrinkles in every week. When Jones can go up to the line of scrimmage and be able to audible into anything he wants and pull it off with success, the will let him loose. Mac ain't there yet so you manage him and the game until you don't have to. They aren't there yet.

No to play a slow conservative run oriented offensive game you need a great OL.  You can't rely on a bad OL for 10+ play drives.  They won't hold up that long and will make devastating mistakes.  You need big plays that get big yards.  The teams that have had success running the 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses have great OL's.  You quite simply can't run long time eating drives with a bad OL, because the OL will invariably fail leading to the end of those drives.  They don't have the ability to get the ball over the hump.  It is why the Patriots can move the ball, but can't put it in the end zone.  The OL isn't good enough.  They need the big plays to get huge yardage plays.  They have to air it out more.  That is the only way they are going to win games because it is the way to maximize a weak OL.  In addition, it stops teams from just loading up in the box.  Without the deep throws and downfield plays the offense becomes predictable.  It is why they can outgain an awful Dolphins team by over 100 yards and lose.  Or why Mac can "outplay" Tom and they lose with some questionable play calling.  Or why they can't score in OT when they get the ball first.  The offense is too predictable and too conservative.

Teams are blitzing the Pats on a regular basis. Dallas did as well by setting seven in the box, rushing 4 and blitzing one while dropping two into coverage. They brought guys in from different directions on the regular. They played lots of cover 1 with man underneath.

With 5-6 guys coming in on the pass rush, Jones didn't have time to go deep. He was absolutely killed on two different sacks. Not smothered and tackled. Violent hits that can hurt people. If the Pats tried to go deep down field, that would have happened a lot more.

The Pats line, even though a patchwork, are better at run blocking than pass blocking. That is the strength you have to play to. But they suck at both. So they have to attempt to establish the run while mixing in quick slants, screens, out routes and timing play comeback curls. All those passes get the ball out of Jones' hands fast and protect him from getting killed. If successful, that should put points on the board while winning the time of possession and keeping the defense off the field.

It almost worked. Twice. Against two of the best teams in the league.

Doing things your way would be hanging Mac out to dry. It would put your future star in jeopardy of getting killed. It would ruin his confidence and his long term development.

Mahomes played one game his rookie year. Rodgers sat for his first three years. Drew Brees barely  played his rookie year and was bad his second. Brady was managed and had to manage the game his first year, getting better every week.

Most of the very best guys were brought along slowly. Meanwhile, the amount of QBs that became nothing, who were often overwhelmed by trying to do too much while getting killed by being sacked so much, is enormous.

Mac Jones is having a very good year. He is one of the league leaders in completion percentage. Not rookie leaders, league leaders. He is extremely accurate on all his throws:short, medium and long. I am pretty sure he has had 3TD throws come back due to penalties. He gets a little better every week. He is developing tremendously and doing so because of the style of offense being run given the personnel packages he has.

I think Belichick and McDaniels are doing a great job of developing him.

Does that mean the Patriots have a razor thin edge they are straddling in order to win? Yup.

Does the fan base hate it because they aren't seeing Brady with the complete confidence of his coaches and absolute power with a full playbook at his disposal to audible plays into? Yup.

But if the fan base wants a star QB to lead them to future Super Bowls, this is the proper way to do it, given the makeup of the current team. Growing pains will need to be lived with and losses are going to happen. My guess is by year's end, the Pats will beat a really good team or two and have easier wins over bad teams.

That's progress. That's how Belichick teams work. That's how you develop star QBs.

The conservative play calling makes it easy to game plan because the defense knows you aren't even going to attempt a deep throw.  It hamstrings the offense because it sets up the defense to go guns blazing on every play.  I'm not saying the Patriots should go wide open and throw deep every play, but they aren't doing it at all, making their offense predictable, which is never a place to be.  Lots of all time great QB's came in and started immediately, some on bad teams where they played poorly.  Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Big Ben, etc.  There is no one way to develop a QB, but if you are going to start a guy immediately, you have to give him a real shot, and I just don't think the Patriots are doing that.  What they are doing is not working and they are losing games they should win.  I mean even yesterday the Patriots had the ball, winning the game, with 2.5 minutes left and then threw a pick 6 before flaming out in OT and not moving the ball.  They should have beaten Miami and Tampa as well, but the conservative game planning cost them both those games. 

And the advanced numbers all support this as Mac is well below average in Y/A+, NY/A+, AY/A+, and ANY/A+, which also leads to a well below average TD%+ and INT%+, and despite him having a great CMP%+, his RATE+ is below average.  So a guy with an incredible completion percentage, is a well below average QB because his completions are so short, the team can't get into the end zone, and he throws it to the other team.  They need to throw the ball down the field.  They need to open up the play book, because that will make the team (and Mac) better.

Do you actually watch the Pats games? Or are you once again just spouting stats?

Their game plans are designed to keep them in games while protecting their QB. They have no deep threat. They have a massive, injury riddled problem on the line. They have no receiving back out of the backfield. Their best "deep routes" are crossing patterns over the middle in the 10-15 yard down field range. Their best receiving options are TEs in those areas or short screens and outlet plays.

They simply don't have the players to pull off what you are describing especially when the defenses are blitzing regularly. And the defenses aren't blitzing regularly because of a conservative game plan. They are blitzing because that's the easiest way to shut down rookie QBs who don't have the experience reading the blitzes and checking out of plays to offset the lack of time they are going to have to throw. Belichick has been doing this to rookie QBs for decades. It works.

This is very easy to see....if you actually watch the games.

But Nick, whose fault is this?

Who cares ho's fault it is. It's what happens after 20 years of brilliance and you need to rebuild.

You say the Pats don’t have the personnel to throw the ball downfield, yet they Spent $100M+ on 3 skill position players this off-season and all are underperforming. Who cares? I think Bob and Jonathan Kraft might.