Author Topic: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)  (Read 10352 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2019, 05:27:01 AM »

Offline Androslav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2983
  • Tommy Points: 528
I liked both the article and the conversation in this thread.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2019, 06:08:39 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
South Africa is a decent modern study on how racism begets racism and all the problems that even more racism creates.

Or could it be innate on some level?  If you read history people have often mistreated those different from them.  I have always thought that infants are curious about different people but hate is taught from those around them as they grow up?

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2019, 08:06:27 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2493
  • Tommy Points: 199
I like the article and agree with a lot of it. There are serious racial undertones to modern society. Here in the UK we have this small matter of Brexit that is driving a rise in racist behaviour for example.

However it's important to recognise that none of these things will ever be completely black and white. There are always going to be issues where the majority viewpoint is not racist and is based on legitimate thought, but there are racist elements to certain trends of thought within that, masked by the wider issue. We have to be better at rooting that out, even if it means having to compromise slightly on the overall goal.

So even if some find it hard to agree with Korver on his viewpoint, the lessons are important to bear in mind. Listening to others and giving serious thought to a viewpoint is always going to lead to a better conclusion that picking up a headline and repeating it to anyone who listens. Showing gratefulness to those deserving of it and not just those you are told to be grateful for helps engender trust and leads to further useful acts.

It's especially easy in modern society to turn off on an issue or pick it up for 5 minutes then drop it again. Despite horizons growing and being able to connect around the world more easily than ever, we are more likely to find ourselves in echo chambers. Individual thought is harder to come by and it's very important to try and reverse that if we want to progress as a society. Ironically as things have opened up for the newer generations, we have put less effort into diversifying ourselves and more susceptible to becoming sheep...

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2019, 08:55:57 AM »

Offline gift

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3988
  • Tommy Points: 291
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2019, 08:57:08 AM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7508
  • Tommy Points: 742
Quote
The fact that black Americans are more than five times as likely to be incarcerated as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black Americans are more than twice as likely to live in poverty as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black unemployment rates nationally are double that of overall unemployment rates is wrong. The fact that black imprisonment rates for drug charges are almost six times higher nationally than white imprisonment rates for drug charges is wrong. The fact that black Americans own approximately one-tenth of the wealth that white Americans own is wrong.

I’m glad that he pointed this out because it is a problem, but none of this is due to racism.

This has everything to do with the black culture (athletes and lil Wayne as a role models over Colin Powell, 70% of children born to single mothers).

When Korver thought “why is Thabo at a night club,” he’s absolutely correct because he’s a responsible adult. This isn’t a white vs black thing. It’s a “cmon man, grow up” thing. He was 30 years old at the time. Any of you 30 year olds go out til 4am on a work night?

Building wealth in America is not difficult, but it starts with good parenting. You need parents that will expect nothing less than graduating high school, getting a relevant degree, waiting to have children until after marriage and financially ready, saving money into a retirement account instead of buying junk that you don’t need and most importantly spending time with your children so that your family tree IMPROVES.

If you think that the above paragraph is “none of my business,” every year I have to pay money to support other people’s poor decisions. And then I get blamed for being privileged. It’s time for adults to grow up and take care of their own. Even if it’s too late for you and you’re going to live a welfare based life, make sure that it doesn’t happen to your children. Good parenting is free.

lol. TP for hilariously sincere naivety.

My favorite part is "Building wealth in America is not difficult, but it starts with good parenting." That is such a weird conflation of misplaced ideals and misunderstanding of how the world works.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2019, 09:00:10 AM »

Offline gift

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3988
  • Tommy Points: 291
Quote
The fact that black Americans are more than five times as likely to be incarcerated as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black Americans are more than twice as likely to live in poverty as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black unemployment rates nationally are double that of overall unemployment rates is wrong. The fact that black imprisonment rates for drug charges are almost six times higher nationally than white imprisonment rates for drug charges is wrong. The fact that black Americans own approximately one-tenth of the wealth that white Americans own is wrong.

I’m glad that he pointed this out because it is a problem, but none of this is due to racism.

This has everything to do with the black culture (athletes and lil Wayne as a role models over Colin Powell, 70% of children born to single mothers).

When Korver thought “why is Thabo at a night club,” he’s absolutely correct because he’s a responsible adult. This isn’t a white vs black thing. It’s a “cmon man, grow up” thing. He was 30 years old at the time. Any of you 30 year olds go out til 4am on a work night?

Building wealth in America is not difficult, but it starts with good parenting. You need parents that will expect nothing less than graduating high school, getting a relevant degree, waiting to have children until after marriage and financially ready, saving money into a retirement account instead of buying junk that you don’t need and most importantly spending time with your children so that your family tree IMPROVES.

If you think that the above paragraph is “none of my business,” every year I have to pay money to support other people’s poor decisions. And then I get blamed for being privileged. It’s time for adults to grow up and take care of their own. Even if it’s too late for you and you’re going to live a welfare based life, make sure that it doesn’t happen to your children. Good parenting is free.

lol. TP for hilariously sincere naivety.

My favorite part is "Building wealth in America is not difficult, but it starts with good parenting." That is such a weird conflation of misplaced ideals and misunderstanding of how the world works.

We should not overlook the effect of two-parent households on communities and kids' future prospects, though. That actually is impactful.

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2019, 09:36:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33634
  • Tommy Points: 1546
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2019, 10:25:51 AM »

Offline gift

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3988
  • Tommy Points: 291
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2019, 11:17:31 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33634
  • Tommy Points: 1546
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2019, 01:08:18 PM »

Offline gift

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3988
  • Tommy Points: 291
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point.

Therefore it's worth critiquing the literal quote.

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2019, 01:35:37 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7508
  • Tommy Points: 742
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point.

Therefore it's worth critiquing the literal quote.

Are you seriously arguing that context should be ignored?
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2019, 01:59:59 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58754
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point.

Therefore it's worth critiquing the literal quote.

Are you seriously arguing that context should be ignored?

No, I think he’s arguing the quote was sloppy and unclear, regardless of context.  It implies that something nefarious is going on when white people don’t put everything into a racial context.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2019, 02:03:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33634
  • Tommy Points: 1546
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point.

Therefore it's worth critiquing the literal quote.

Are you seriously arguing that context should be ignored?

No, I think he’s arguing the quote was sloppy and unclear, regardless of context.  It implies that something nefarious is going on when white people don’t put everything into a racial context.
He didn't argue it was poorly written (which it certainly could have been written better, but then again he is a professional basketball player).  And the second part, it only implies something nefarious when you take it out of context.  That is why context matters.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2019, 02:07:49 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58754
  • Tommy Points: -25628
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point.

Therefore it's worth critiquing the literal quote.

Are you seriously arguing that context should be ignored?

No, I think he’s arguing the quote was sloppy and unclear, regardless of context.  It implies that something nefarious is going on when white people don’t put everything into a racial context.
He didn't argue it was poorly written (which it certainly could have been written better, but then again he is a professional basketball player).  And the second part, it only implies something nefarious when you take it out of context.  That is why context matters.

Well no, it implies something nefarious *in* context.

The good, polite white folk in public are (nefariously) in private talking about how not everything is about race.

He calls people who act like that racist, and that’s asinine.  Korver is the one who picks the dichotomy, and he juxtaposes acting politely in public toward blacks with privately not wanting to make everything about race.  He uses the label racism.

What context are you seeing differently?


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2019, 02:18:20 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7508
  • Tommy Points: 742
IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

Quote
But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

There's inherently something wrong with accusing someone of racism because they'd rather not observe race at all.

The common thing among racists and those who view everything through a prism of racism, is that race is extremely important to both. In this way, those who choose to be "colorblind" are further removed from racism.

At one time, it was a popular strategy to choose not to see race. And in my opinion, things started to get better (not perfect, but moving in the right direction). Now, you are being called racist for choosing that strategy. In this way, you will never defeat racists, because even in the absence of serious racism, you will have those who just go about their business regardless of race. It's a bad strategy, and in my opinion it's why things seem to be getting worse, not because racism is increasing in power, relevance or frequency. Our awareness is raised and therefore the racism that always will exist is magnified beyond what it needs to be.

But according to Korver, I'm a racist for having this opinion. Don't you see the problem with that thought? It's making an ally into an opponent needlessly. Stop. That's the wrong way to do it.
This is what happens when you only look at pieces of an article, you come up with things that were never the intent of the drafter.

If the quote doesn't match the intent, it shouldn't be included in the article. If the quote can be taken the wrong way by me, it can also be taken the wrong way by others, who maybe don't share Korver's intent, but rather his literal statement, no? Perhaps we should critique the article rather than praise its intent for this very reason.
You can pull anything out of context.  That was my point.

Therefore it's worth critiquing the literal quote.

Are you seriously arguing that context should be ignored?

No, I think he’s arguing the quote was sloppy and unclear, regardless of context.  It implies that something nefarious is going on when white people don’t put everything into a racial context.
He didn't argue it was poorly written (which it certainly could have been written better, but then again he is a professional basketball player).  And the second part, it only implies something nefarious when you take it out of context.  That is why context matters.

Well no, it implies something nefarious *in* context.

The good, polite white folk in public are (nefariously) in private talking about how not everything is about race.

He calls people who act like that racist, and that’s asinine.  Korver is the one who picks the dichotomy, and he juxtaposes acting politely in public toward blacks with privately not wanting to make everything about race.  He uses the label racism.

What context are you seeing differently?

He doesn't say what you're claiming at all. He draws a distinction between two types of racism: one that is loud and obvious and another that is polite in public while harboring hate in private.

The argument that the latter is more dangerous seems reasonable to me.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008