Privileged by Kyle Korver (Merged)

[Roy H.]

Racism will always exist

Crying about racism by writing articles about racism existing will never stop the racists. Just like sexists, just like atheists, just like every other group, you will not stop them from existing by yelling and screaming at them roaming


I just find it comical that people think they can stop something so Inherent in humanity.


Korver goes against everything about want Martin Luther king said - stop judging people based on their skin color and start judging them based on their character. No, white people don't need reeducation or retrospective thought or whatever propaganda he wrote. Do racist people need reeducation? Yes. Not white. Racist people exist in all colors. Go see how white south African farmers get treated by blacks there

I think you might be missing a fundamental understanding of apartheid in South Africa if you believe the black population might not still have very real reasons to not like and trust white people there.

Racism. Yup it is. It might have something to do with the systematic racism the white minority used against blacks up until the early 90's.

Yep, this is pretty much correct.  There's a lot of reason for resentment over there.

But, it's complicated.  A lot of the laws that were passed by the majority black government are overtly racist.  For instance, whites are barred from having majority ownership in many new businesses. 

Is that the way to make things right?  I think there a lot of interesting arguments about what the "just" way to handle things is.  In South Africa in particular, unfortunately, one corrupt white government was replaced with a corrupt black government, which has predictably resulted in nothing changing for the poorest citizens.  50 to 100 years ago it will be interesting to see what the results are.  My guess is a lot of white emigration (primarily to Australia) will continue, while the income disparity between rich and poor (and the corresponding crime) continues to grow.

But, that's a bit off-topic.  I just think it's an interesting case study.

[CptZoogs]

Racism will always exist

Crying about racism by writing articles about racism existing will never stop the racists. Just like sexists, just like atheists, just like every other group, you will not stop them from existing by yelling and screaming at them roaming


I just find it comical that people think they can stop something so Inherent in humanity.


Korver goes against everything about want Martin Luther king said - stop judging people based on their skin color and start judging them based on their character. No, white people don't need reeducation or retrospective thought or whatever propaganda he wrote. Do racist people need reeducation? Yes. Not white. Racist people exist in all colors. Go see how white south African farmers get treated by blacks there

Death and illness will always exist.  Is the practice of modern medicine a waste of time.  Where would we be as a country if we stuck with this attitude?  You don't think ANY progress has been made?

[number_n9ne]

IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

[nickagneta]

Racism will always exist

Crying about racism by writing articles about racism existing will never stop the racists. Just like sexists, just like atheists, just like every other group, you will not stop them from existing by yelling and screaming at them roaming


I just find it comical that people think they can stop something so Inherent in humanity.


Korver goes against everything about want Martin Luther king said - stop judging people based on their skin color and start judging them based on their character. No, white people don't need reeducation or retrospective thought or whatever propaganda he wrote. Do racist people need reeducation? Yes. Not white. Racist people exist in all colors. Go see how white south African farmers get treated by blacks there

I think you might be missing a fundamental understanding of apartheid in South Africa if you believe the black population might not still have very real reasons to not like and trust white people there.

Racism. Yup it is. It might have something to do with the systematic racism the white minority used against blacks up until the early 90's.

Yep, this is pretty much correct.  There's a lot of reason for resentment over there.

But, it's complicated.  A lot of the laws that were passed by the majority black government are overtly racist.  For instance, whites are barred from having majority ownership in many new businesses. 

Is that the way to make things right?  I think there a lot of interesting arguments about what the "just" way to handle things is.  In South Africa in particular, unfortunately, one corrupt white government was replaced with a corrupt black government, which has predictably resulted in nothing changing for the poorest citizens.  50 to 100 years ago it will be interesting to see what the results are.  My guess is a lot of white emigration (primarily to Australia) will continue, while the income disparity between rich and poor (and the corresponding crime) continues to grow.

But, that's a bit off-topic.  I just think it's an interesting case study.

South Africa is a decent modern study on how racism begets racism and all the problems that even more racism creates.

But as you said, off topic.

[Roy H.]

IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

What's racist about somebody who treats black people kindly, who does and says nice things, but doesn't like viewing every human interaction in terms of race?

[nickagneta]

IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

What's racist about somebody who treats black people kindly, who does and says nice things, but doesn't like viewing every human interaction in terms of race?

I took that part to mean people who treat POC decently to their face but are, in fact, racist.

Just before he talked about hidden racism and I think, in his style of bringing it up as an example, just said those people will passively show their racism with comments questioning why everything is about race when looking at racial issues.

That's the way I took that section. I think you need to take that comment in context with what he was describing as hidden racism, not the racism that is obvious, and tried to paint the picture of an example.

[Sophomore]

Racism will always exist

Crying about racism by writing articles about racism existing will never stop the racists. Just like sexists, just like atheists, just like every other group, you will not stop them from existing by yelling and screaming at them roaming


I just find it comical that people think they can stop something so Inherent in humanity.


Korver goes against everything about want Martin Luther king said - stop judging people based on their skin color and start judging them based on their character. No, white people don't need reeducation or retrospective thought or whatever propaganda he wrote. Do racist people need reeducation? Yes. Not white. Racist people exist in all colors. Go see how white south African farmers get treated by blacks there

You say racism is permanent, and to some extent that must be true. Humans are hard wired to recognize groups - us and them. But looking at history I think you might also agree that the boundaries can change, and people on the outside get treated more or less harshly.

In this country, in my lifetime, black people at one time in many states could not serve on juries or be hired as police officers. Or if they worked hard, saved their money, and tried to buy a home they could not buy in many neighborhoods. When the courts told school systems to desegregate, in many jurisdictions white authorities closed the public schools instead.

It was by talking about it - and honestly, by some people complaining loudly - that things got better.  We made progress but we are not done. Where race still matters we have to talk about it.

[gouki88]

IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

What's racist about somebody who treats black people kindly, who does and says nice things, but doesn't like viewing every human interaction in terms of race?

I’m always excited when some tells me I’m racist for not seeing everything through the lens of racism. Really makes me willing to take them seriously

[Roy H.]

IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

What's racist about somebody who treats black people kindly, who does and says nice things, but doesn't like viewing every human interaction in terms of race?

I took that part to mean people who treat POC decently to their face but are, in fact, racist.

Just before he talked about hidden racism and I think, in his style of bringing it up as an example, just said those people will passively show their racism with comments questioning why everything is about race when looking at racial issues.

That's the way I took that section. I think you need to take that comment in context with what he was describing as hidden racism, not the racism that is obvious, and tried to paint the picture of an example.

Yeah, I just think it was a weird example.  There definitely exists a public / private divide.  For instance, people's willingness to tell racist jokes is going to go up substantially if they think they're around "like-minded" people.

But, I think Korver's example does people a disservice.  I would think that most whites who treat blacks well publicly, saying and doing the right things, do that because they're basically good people.  If they say they don't think in terms of race, or find racial talk to be awkward, it doesn't make them at all bad people.

[nickagneta]

IDK if someone said this already, I can't bring myself to read every response, but Korver was able to eloquently describe a lot of what's going on in this thread.

But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.

TL;DR if you're fighting this tooth and nail rather than listening, you're part of the problem. And yes, racist, whether you are actively trying to be or not. *Shrug*

What's racist about somebody who treats black people kindly, who does and says nice things, but doesn't like viewing every human interaction in terms of race?

I took that part to mean people who treat POC decently to their face but are, in fact, racist.

Just before he talked about hidden racism and I think, in his style of bringing it up as an example, just said those people will passively show their racism with comments questioning why everything is about race when looking at racial issues.

That's the way I took that section. I think you need to take that comment in context with what he was describing as hidden racism, not the racism that is obvious, and tried to paint the picture of an example.

Yeah, I just think it was a weird example.  There definitely exists a public / private divide.  For instance, people's willingness to tell racist jokes is going to go up substantially if they think they're around "like-minded" people.

But, I think Korver's example does people a disservice.  I would think that most whites who treat blacks well publicly, saying and doing the right things, do that because they're basically good people.  If they say they don't think in terms of race, or find racial talk to be awkward, it doesn't make them at all bad people.

I don't think Korver was talking about most or all white people or even white people who aren't racist but don't like talking about race. I think he was speaking about hidden racists that would do what he said.

I just think he didn't do the best of jobs communicating it.

But I still love his main point, that being that the worst thing about racism is the racism that isn't right there, in your face, easy to see, racism but the type that stays hidden beneath. I completely agree with this.

[Moranis]

I feel like a lot of people get the concept of "white privilege" twisted, and end up getting triggered as a result.  I am talking about the people who feel that to acknowledge white privilege exists is equivalent to saying no white person had it rough or no white person had to work hard to get what they have in life.  I personally think it is hard not to recognize that being born in the majority comes with advantages, just as being born in the country period comes with advantages.  But just because you have an advantage, that does not mean you did or didn't work hard to make the most of those advantages.  Think of a player like Steph Curry.  He was raised by one of the best shooters of all time, and when it comes to trying to make a career as a basketball player, that is a huge advantage.  But Steph still had to work hard to make his own name and become the player he is today.  I think so much of this is about, at the very least, acknowledging these advantages exist.  Instead, there are many that would claim the issue of racism is settled in this country, which in turn leaves many minorities feeling like they are being gas-lit.  If we can acknowledge the issue exists, then that is the first step for brainstorming reasonable strategies for dealing with the issue.

Let’s concede for purposes of this conversation that being born a very poor black is more challenging than being a very poor white. Assume that the white has fewer barriers, in general.

What gets lost in the focus on race is that things change fairly dramatically when you change the class of one of the participants.  A middle class black has more privilege than a lower working class white. But, that nuance is ignored.

A rich black man and a poor white man walks into a upscale store, both are dressed exactly the same, nothing fancy, just your everyday comfortable attire. Do you think they are going to be treated the same? You don't see the eyes and employees following the black man. You don't hear them telling him "those are really expensive" or them showing the least expensive thing in the store to him if he's "lucky."

You just proved the point and you don't even realize it! The black guy in your scenario had to HAVE more to be SEEN. You didn't even think about it before you wrote it because you don't actually care, as long as you don't have to accept the reality. A "higher class" black person has to be KNOWN about in order to receive that privilege. Your own example doesn't even have to do with race, it is income inequality, an entirely different problem within this context!

2 rich people, one black and one white still don't get treated the same at all times. Even rich black men have many disadvantages because of their skin color. So, sure, they have it "better" than the average person a lot of the time, but it comes from KNOWING the black man has the money! How many times have you heard of a middle class white man walking up to his own home or walking around in his OWN yard who have had the police called on him? Yea, doesn't happen.

When two people, one white and the other, a POC, are treated the same, without descriptions (money, good person, etc), then your made up world will be reality.

Also, you say an upper class black person has more privilege than a lower class white man as if that isn't a problem too. Not because one is black and the other is white but because we ALL should have a fair chance at a good life! If we are arguing income inequality, then I'm sure MOST people also see that as problem! Not that we all deserve to have money but that essential things shouldn't be reserved for those who have the money, ie, healthcare! I don't expect the LUXURIES of a rich person (yachts, big homes, fancy cars etc.) but I do think that access to good healthcare, schooling, and equal "everyday" treatment should be a given! The color of my skin should never be the defining difference in treatment!

Don't conflate income inequality with the privileged argument because it's two separate things in the context you used and what this discussion is based on, although, POC experience greater income inequality based solely on their skin color. Most people are against income inequality! Your example works the same if the middle class man was white and the poorer person was black! I'm laughing at you thinking income inequality is both nuanced and ignored... you're right, it's ignored by the rich and powerful (mainly white people)!

this really is the salient point.  I can't really fathom what it must be like to be black.  The constant stares, feeling like I'm always being watched, worried that the police will be called at any time, etc.  Unless you are black I don't think you can truly understand. 

I mean we've seen time and time again the way blacks are treated by authorities.  People that are supposed to be trained to know better.  Like the security guard that was shot in the parking lot or the kid who was hand cuffed for riding in his white grandmother's car.  Time and time again these stories make national news, but it happens millions of times that don't make the news. 

Being black is absolutely without question a disadvantage in this country and it is a shame that it happens and that more people don't recognize it.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

A white poor person indeed has MORE privileges than a black poor person, NO ONE is then saying that that means they don't experience some or even most of the same problems of poverty! No one is saying that you didn't have to fight your way through life to get where you are!! Your rise out of poverty can be both hard AND easier than the rise of a black person based only on skin color though! It's never really as "black and white" as "I'm poor too!" Do you really need more examples of the privileges EVEN THE POOREST OF THE POOR white people enjoy that black people don't enjoy?

Again, there are privileges of just being "SEEN" at times that even the richest black people don't enjoy. Look at how few black missing girls/people make the tv/news. Try, as a white person, to name (without looking) one black missing girl rich or poor. I don't mean someone you know or someone you've heard of through family and/or friends. I know more now but when was younger I couldn't tell you one I knew from the news, not one, but if the criteria was a white girl/person, I would have easily given you the name of Ramsey and more!

I was about to get into the example of black people wanting to be seen and how they buy all the flashy jewelry/bling but I swear, even the most simple things in this thread aren't being received, so it will probably not even land for some people.

People always say black people like to "play victim" and that is funny if you just sit back and watch the real world and the tv/news! People accusing black people of that are in that same breath playing the victim!

Take Affirmative Action, people say Asians have the real problem because it means black people will get chosen over them because they are black. Right, just give Asians a reason to hate those black people instead of the institutions/people who made it so black people had to be forced into schools! No, don't be mad at the white people with less qualifications and the people who let them in instead of you, be mad at the people that had to beg and fight to be seen just like you do. Don't be mad at the system/people who are actually keeping you out be mad at the other minority, they control whether you get in or not!

If black poor and white poor are really equally less privileged then why are those same poor white people so afraid that POC are coming for what they have? If you both have nothing what is there to take?

This is old but still a gem and still holds true today (even though it's better for us), from the great Jane Elliot...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=4yrg7vV4a5o

[Erik]

The fact that black Americans are more than five times as likely to be incarcerated as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black Americans are more than twice as likely to live in poverty as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black unemployment rates nationally are double that of overall unemployment rates is wrong. The fact that black imprisonment rates for drug charges are almost six times higher nationally than white imprisonment rates for drug charges is wrong. The fact that black Americans own approximately one-tenth of the wealth that white Americans own is wrong.

I’m glad that he pointed this out because it is a problem, but none of this is due to racism.

This has everything to do with the black culture (athletes and lil Wayne as a role models over Colin Powell, 70% of children born to single mothers).

When Korver thought “why is Thabo at a night club,” he’s absolutely correct because he’s a responsible adult. This isn’t a white vs black thing. It’s a “cmon man, grow up” thing. He was 30 years old at the time. Any of you 30 year olds go out til 4am on a work night?

Building wealth in America is not difficult, but it starts with good parenting. You need parents that will expect nothing less than graduating high school, getting a relevant degree, waiting to have children until after marriage and financially ready, saving money into a retirement account instead of buying junk that you don’t need and most importantly spending time with your children so that your family tree IMPROVES.

If you think that the above paragraph is “none of my business,” every year I have to pay money to support other people’s poor decisions. And then I get blamed for being privileged. It’s time for adults to grow up and take care of their own. Even if it’s too late for you and you’re going to live a welfare based life, make sure that it doesn’t happen to your children. Good parenting is free.

[trickybilly]

The fact that black Americans are more than five times as likely to be incarcerated as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black Americans are more than twice as likely to live in poverty as white Americans is wrong. The fact that black unemployment rates nationally are double that of overall unemployment rates is wrong. The fact that black imprisonment rates for drug charges are almost six times higher nationally than white imprisonment rates for drug charges is wrong. The fact that black Americans own approximately one-tenth of the wealth that white Americans own is wrong.

I’m glad that he pointed this out because it is a problem, but none of this is due to racism.

This has everything to do with the black culture (athletes and lil Wayne as a role models over Colin Powell, 70% of children born to single mothers).

When Korver thought “why is Thabo at a night club,” he’s absolutely correct because he’s a responsible adult. This isn’t a white vs black thing. It’s a “cmon man, grow up” thing. He was 30 years old at the time. Any of you 30 year olds go out til 4am on a work night?

Building wealth in America is not difficult, but it starts with good parenting. You need parents that will expect nothing less than graduating high school, getting a relevant degree, waiting to have children until after marriage and financially ready, saving money into a retirement account instead of buying junk that you don’t need and most importantly spending time with your children so that your family tree IMPROVES.

If you think that the above paragraph is “none of my business,” every year I have to pay money to support other people’s poor decisions. And then I get blamed for being privileged. It’s time for adults to grow up and take care of their own. Even if it’s too late for you and you’re going to live a welfare based life, make sure that it doesn’t happen to your children. Good parenting is free.

lol. TP for hilariously sincere naivety.

[OnPoint]

Despite better community sports programs, private coaching, and the nicest courts in the country being afforded to a prominently white population, African Americans, who make up 13% of the overall population with many coming from poverty, dominate the NBA landscape. What happened to white privilege when it comes to athletics? Korver said nothing new or interesting as far as I could tell.