Has Jokic surpassed Anthony Davis as the best big man?

[Androslav]

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić

Best centers, not all NBA teams.

[Csfan1984]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

[Androslav]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

We disagree on many, but no Gobert in top 10?
That guy guarantees 50 win season for his team whenever he is on the court.
No KAT too? Adams, Turner, Kristaps?

Your 4. 6. & 7. didn't log a career playoff game between the 3 of them.
I believe there is a reason for it involving their own impact on winning.

Here is mine top 11, criteria is who would I take for a playoff series starting tommorow:
(No Zinger)

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić
4. Gobert
5. KAT
6. Horford
7. Aldridge
8. Capela
9. Adams
10. DMC
11. Turner

As you can see I am a firm big Al believer.

[Csfan1984]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

We disagree on many, but no Gobert in top 10?
That guy guarantees 50 win season for his team whenever he is on the court.
No KAT too? Adams, Turner, Kristaps?

Your 4. 6. & 7. didn't log a career playoff game between the 3 of them.
I believe there is a reason for it involving their own impact on winning.

Here is mine top 11, criteria is who would I take for a playoff series starting tommorow:
(No Zinger)

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić
4. Gobert
5. KAT
6. Horford
7. Aldridge
8. Capela
9. Adams
10. DMC
11. Turner

As you can see I am a firm big Al believer.

I'm okay with disagreeing helps people point out details they value. Towns scares me based on how rumor is he is "playing hard now for a contract". They say it and suggest after he gets his money he will become a 16 and 6 kind of player to force a trade. So he has to buy into something to play hard. Zinger has to get healthy. Adams doesn't take the lead role ever nor does he seem to change the game for his opponents. Gobert gets neutralize too often if your team has shooters and a stretch big.

[Androslav]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

We disagree on many, but no Gobert in top 10?
That guy guarantees 50 win season for his team whenever he is on the court.
No KAT too? Adams, Turner, Kristaps?

Your 4. 6. & 7. didn't log a career playoff game between the 3 of them.
I believe there is a reason for it involving their own impact on winning.

Here is mine top 11, criteria is who would I take for a playoff series starting tommorow:
(No Zinger)

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić
4. Gobert
5. KAT
6. Horford
7. Aldridge
8. Capela
9. Adams
10. DMC
11. Turner

As you can see I am a firm big Al believer.

I'm okay with disagreeing helps people point out details they value. Towns scares me based on how rumor is he is "playing hard now for a contract". They say it and suggest after he gets his money he will become a 16 and 6 kind of player to force a trade. So he has to buy into something to play hard. Zinger has to get healthy. Adams doesn't take the lead role ever nor does he seem to change the game for his opponents. Gobert gets neutralize too often if your team has shooters and a stretch big.

I think KAT's talents are underutilized. That he has more talent that can be put to better use. He can be an efficient offensive machine that propels the team. Unfortunately, Thibs was never an offensive coach, below average in that regard IMO. Plus KAT is just 23 y/o.

Adams, I admit I might be overvaluing him now, as he is one of my dearests players in the league. Like you said he can't take over. But he is tough, reliable, good defender, and can provide some vertical spacing. He won't break like say DMC does sometimes, you have to beat him by yourself.

Gobert - hear this statement please:
"Harden gets neutralized in the playoffs too often if your team has good switchy wings and a switchy defensive big."

Point is all players can be countered in a way, except for the very few in history.

But we don't bump Harden down. Even though we see the same old story each PO. Gets tired, efficiency drops significantly. And as in general, guards value is strongly tied to their offensive output (that's why Harden is a monster regerdless), Such is the story behind the center, but on the defensive end. Gobert is probably (AD, Embiid contend) the best defensive center in the game, plus he dunks more often than Giannis does (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/stats/dunk-o-meter). His impact on winning is well established by now.

[gouki88]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

We disagree on many, but no Gobert in top 10?
That guy guarantees 50 win season for his team whenever he is on the court.
No KAT too? Adams, Turner, Kristaps?

Your 4. 6. & 7. didn't log a career playoff game between the 3 of them.
I believe there is a reason for it involving their own impact on winning.

Here is mine top 11, criteria is who would I take for a playoff series starting tommorow:
(No Zinger)

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić
4. Gobert
5. KAT
6. Horford
7. Aldridge
8. Capela
9. Adams
10. DMC
11. Turner

As you can see I am a firm big Al believer.

I'm okay with disagreeing helps people point out details they value. Towns scares me based on how rumor is he is "playing hard now for a contract". They say it and suggest after he gets his money he will become a 16 and 6 kind of player to force a trade. So he has to buy into something to play hard. Zinger has to get healthy. Adams doesn't take the lead role ever nor does he seem to change the game for his opponents. Gobert gets neutralize too often if your team has shooters and a stretch big.

Didn't KAT already sign an extension? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776830-karl-anthony-towns-timberwolves-reportedly-agree-to-5-year-190m-contract

Since Butler left KAT has averaged roughly 25/13/4. Since the ASB he's averaging roughly 29/14/4 shooting 52/43/80. I get the defensive concerns, but there's a very legitimate argument he has the best offensive game of any big man in the league.

[gift]

The J rating doesn't tell you who is a better player, but is meant to tell you who is having a better season. Among big men this year, I have these guys in this order (per game rating):

Joel Embiid    1.14
Anthony Davis   1.10 (was much higher before the trade drama)
Karl Anthony Towns  1.01
Nikola Jokic    .99
Nikola Vucevic    .94
Rudy Gobert    .92
Blake Griffin    .91
Andre Drummond  .90

[footey]

Tip the graph sideways, and you'll get a good idea what most here think of the poll question.

LOL

[gift]

Tip the graph sideways, and you'll get a good idea what most here think of the poll question.

LOL

Lol.. i had to vote just to see what you were talking about.

[td450]

The J rating doesn't tell you who is a better player, but is meant to tell you who is having a better season. Among big men this year, I have these guys in this order (per game rating):

Joel Embiid    1.14
Anthony Davis   1.10 (was much higher before the trade drama)
Karl Anthony Towns  1.01
Nikola Jokic    .99
Nikola Vucevic    .94
Rudy Gobert    .92
Blake Griffin    .91
Andre Drummond  .90

I think Embiid and Towns compare to Jokic the same way Davis does. They all appear to be significantly more dominant players.

And then you look and realize that Jokic has the biggest bottom line impact on winning.

The difference in talent between Embiid's teammates and Jokic's teammates is huge, and yet, Denver is still the better team. The gap isn't that large, but they are better.

It is fair to want to see Jokic continue this through the playoffs, and perhaps for more than one year. But so far, he's the best of the lot.

[gift]

The J rating doesn't tell you who is a better player, but is meant to tell you who is having a better season. Among big men this year, I have these guys in this order (per game rating):

Joel Embiid    1.14
Anthony Davis   1.10 (was much higher before the trade drama)
Karl Anthony Towns  1.01
Nikola Jokic    .99
Nikola Vucevic    .94
Rudy Gobert    .92
Blake Griffin    .91
Andre Drummond  .90

I think Embiid and Towns compare to Jokic the same way Davis does. They all appear to be significantly more dominant players.

And then you look and realize that Jokic has the biggest bottom line impact on winning.

The difference in talent between Embiid's teammates and Jokic's teammates is huge, and yet, Denver is still the better team. The gap isn't that large, but they are better.

It is fair to want to see Jokic continue this through the playoffs, and perhaps for more than one year. But so far, he's the best of the lot.

What are you using to determine this? Also, what are you using to determine that Denver is better than Philadelphia?

[Moranis]

The J rating doesn't tell you who is a better player, but is meant to tell you who is having a better season. Among big men this year, I have these guys in this order (per game rating):

Joel Embiid    1.14
Anthony Davis   1.10 (was much higher before the trade drama)
Karl Anthony Towns  1.01
Nikola Jokic    .99
Nikola Vucevic    .94
Rudy Gobert    .92
Blake Griffin    .91
Andre Drummond  .90

I think Embiid and Towns compare to Jokic the same way Davis does. They all appear to be significantly more dominant players.

And then you look and realize that Jokic has the biggest bottom line impact on winning.

The difference in talent between Embiid's teammates and Jokic's teammates is huge, and yet, Denver is still the better team. The gap isn't that large, but they are better.

It is fair to want to see Jokic continue this through the playoffs, and perhaps for more than one year. But so far, he's the best of the lot.

Philly has more top end talent, but it is a very shallow team.  Denver is a super deep team, which helps significantly where regular season wins are concerned.

[Csfan1984]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

We disagree on many, but no Gobert in top 10?
That guy guarantees 50 win season for his team whenever he is on the court.
No KAT too? Adams, Turner, Kristaps?

Your 4. 6. & 7. didn't log a career playoff game between the 3 of them.
I believe there is a reason for it involving their own impact on winning.

Here is mine top 11, criteria is who would I take for a playoff series starting tommorow:
(No Zinger)

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić
4. Gobert
5. KAT
6. Horford
7. Aldridge
8. Capela
9. Adams
10. DMC
11. Turner

As you can see I am a firm big Al believer.

I'm okay with disagreeing helps people point out details they value. Towns scares me based on how rumor is he is "playing hard now for a contract". They say it and suggest after he gets his money he will become a 16 and 6 kind of player to force a trade. So he has to buy into something to play hard. Zinger has to get healthy. Adams doesn't take the lead role ever nor does he seem to change the game for his opponents. Gobert gets neutralize too often if your team has shooters and a stretch big.

Didn't KAT already sign an extension? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2776830-karl-anthony-towns-timberwolves-reportedly-agree-to-5-year-190m-contract

Since Butler left KAT has averaged roughly 25/13/4. Since the ASB he's averaging roughly 29/14/4 shooting 52/43/80. I get the defensive concerns, but there's a very legitimate argument he has the best offensive game of any big man in the league.

Kicker if he makes all NBA once

[Csfan1984]

My ten is more 3 tiers
1. Embiid 2. Jokic 3. Davis

4. Cousins 5. Horford 6. Collins 7. Ayton
8. Aldridge

9. Capela 10. Vuc

We disagree on many, but no Gobert in top 10?
That guy guarantees 50 win season for his team whenever he is on the court.
No KAT too? Adams, Turner, Kristaps?

Your 4. 6. & 7. didn't log a career playoff game between the 3 of them.
I believe there is a reason for it involving their own impact on winning.

Here is mine top 11, criteria is who would I take for a playoff series starting tommorow:
(No Zinger)

1. Davis
2. Embiid
3. Jokić
4. Gobert
5. KAT
6. Horford
7. Aldridge
8. Capela
9. Adams
10. DMC
11. Turner

As you can see I am a firm big Al believer.

I'm okay with disagreeing helps people point out details they value. Towns scares me based on how rumor is he is "playing hard now for a contract". They say it and suggest after he gets his money he will become a 16 and 6 kind of player to force a trade. So he has to buy into something to play hard. Zinger has to get healthy. Adams doesn't take the lead role ever nor does he seem to change the game for his opponents. Gobert gets neutralize too often if your team has shooters and a stretch big.

I think KAT's talents are underutilized. That he has more talent that can be put to better use. He can be an efficient offensive machine that propels the team. Unfortunately, Thibs was never an offensive coach, below average in that regard IMO. Plus KAT is just 23 y/o.

Adams, I admit I might be overvaluing him now, as he is one of my dearests players in the league. Like you said he can't take over. But he is tough, reliable, good defender, and can provide some vertical spacing. He won't break like say DMC does sometimes, you have to beat him by yourself.

Gobert - hear this statement please:
"Harden gets neutralized in the playoffs too often if your team has good switchy wings and a switchy defensive big."

Point is all players can be countered in a way, except for the very few in history.

But we don't bump Harden down. Even though we see the same old story each PO. Gets tired, efficiency drops significantly. And as in general, guards value is strongly tied to their offensive output (that's why Harden is a monster regerdless), Such is the story behind the center, but on the defensive end. Gobert is probably (AD, Embiid contend) the best defensive center in the game, plus he dunks more often than Giannis does (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/stats/dunk-o-meter). His impact on winning is well established by now.

Plenty of people bump Harden down for stuff and him being neutralized is him still scoring 20+. Not even close to what I see happen to Gobert certain games.

[td450]

The J rating doesn't tell you who is a better player, but is meant to tell you who is having a better season. Among big men this year, I have these guys in this order (per game rating):

Joel Embiid    1.14
Anthony Davis   1.10 (was much higher before the trade drama)
Karl Anthony Towns  1.01
Nikola Jokic    .99
Nikola Vucevic    .94
Rudy Gobert    .92
Blake Griffin    .91
Andre Drummond  .90

I think Embiid and Towns compare to Jokic the same way Davis does. They all appear to be significantly more dominant players.

And then you look and realize that Jokic has the biggest bottom line impact on winning.

The difference in talent between Embiid's teammates and Jokic's teammates is huge, and yet, Denver is still the better team. The gap isn't that large, but they are better.

It is fair to want to see Jokic continue this through the playoffs, and perhaps for more than one year. But so far, he's the best of the lot.

What are you using to determine this? Also, what are you using to determine that Denver is better than Philadelphia?

The Denver Nuggets have won a few more games in a tougher conference. Its really that simple.

The only argument against this is that it really isn't Jokic. Its that other Denver players are better. Its the coach.

I know depth matters, and Denver's bench is better. But it is difficult to swallow any explanation that asserts that Jokic has as good an overall supporting cast as Embiid does, or that win totals are just as hard to achieve in the East.