ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard

[mef730]

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?

Well, of course he is, because, ya know, Lakers.

Mike

[Big333223]

Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup

No spot for Hayward in that lineup ?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

This is what I was getting at: The deal would be for the C's to send out their best ballhandler to bring back a player at a position where there is already a logjam.

Leonard when healthy is a better player than Kyrie

He can do a few more things better vs Kyrie who is mainly an offensive weapon

Leonard also can play the facilitator, be the go to guy, shutdown D.   

Logjam or not, thats a luxury you worry about later

While I agree that Leonard has been a better player than Kyrie, he is not a facilitator.

This is the kind of deal that feels like a fantasy league trade. "Leonard is better than Kyrie so the team will be better if Kyrie is traded for Leonard." Except it doesn't work like that in the real world. Adding Leonard bumps someone out of the depth chart (Tatum or Brown?) and elevates someone else who isn't going to be as good (Rozier).

Meanwhile, as great as Leonard is (when healthy) there are now serious questions about his mindset and having 5 guys who essentially play the same position means you're getting diminishing returns on what each player brings.

It seems like a disaster from a team building perspective.

[Erik]

I like Marcus Morris, Rozier, S&T Marcus Smart + SAC19. That's the best offer that SAS will get. We paid less for Kyrie.

[Eddie20]

Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup

No spot for Hayward in that lineup ?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

This is what I was getting at: The deal would be for the C's to send out their best ballhandler to bring back a player at a position where there is already a logjam.

Leonard when healthy is a better player than Kyrie

He can do a few more things better vs Kyrie who is mainly an offensive weapon

Leonard also can play the facilitator, be the go to guy, shutdown D.   

Logjam or not, thats a luxury you worry about later

While I agree that Leonard has been a better player than Kyrie, he is not a facilitator.

This is the kind of deal that feels like a fantasy league trade. "Leonard is better than Kyrie so the team will be better if Kyrie is traded for Leonard." Except it doesn't work like that in the real world. Adding Leonard bumps someone out of the depth chart (Tatum or Brown?) and elevates someone else who isn't going to be as good (Rozier).

Meanwhile, as great as Leonard is (when healthy) there are now serious questions about his mindset and having 5 guys who essentially play the same position means you're getting diminishing returns on what each player brings.

It seems like a disaster from a team building perspective.

I wouldn't do the trade as constituted, but a starting five of Tatum, Hayward, Horford, Brown, and Leonard is scary stuff. Offensively speaking, all of those players can handle the ball and/or lead a break. They also can shoot/play off-the-ball, so spacing would be unreal. Plus, who does the opposing PG cover?

Defensively, everyone is able to switch everything. It'll be a swarming and athletic defense that is filled with length.

Rozier and Smart would still get plenty of minutes, but coming off the bench. This of course assuming Smart is re-signed and Rozier is not traded away.

[Phantom255x]

I like Marcus Morris, Rozier, S&T Marcus Smart + SAC19. That's the best offer that SAS will get. We paid less for Kyrie.

I don't.

Love Kawhi, but he currently has a lot of red flags. Meanwhile, Morris is emerging as a legit 15 PPG scoring option off the bench, Smart's impact has been contagious in a positive way for us, and that SAC 19 pick is likely a Top-5 pick. Sounds like a ton to be honest. I'd rather not.

[kozlodoev]

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?

Your main point is kind of moot, because this isn't an article by an author, it's a collection of a bunch of trades suggested and analyzed by a bunch of  different NBA insiders.

And for the Ingram trade, in particular, Pelton (the guy who suggested the LA swap with Ingram) clearly states that other teams can offer more, so it's conditional on the Spurs believing Ingram is a better prospect than anything they can get.

Pretty much a non-issue.

[Fafnir]

Glad to see giving up 3 bench players for a MVP caliber player is still the best possible offer here.

*gravelly voice over*
Celticsblog, Celticsblog never changes.

[Birdman]

Keep the team as is..hayward, irving and theiss coming back..resign smart and monroe..dont trade tatum or brown

[johnnygreen]

I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

I really don't want this thread to degrade into another debate on Kyrie Irving, or for that matter, what we would give up for Leonard.

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?

The problem is that your just looking at the names involved and not the other half of the equation. The benefit/value of trading with the Lakers is that they’re under the cap, and the salaries don’t have to match. The question becomes how much value the Spurs have in a roughly $15 million trade exception that they would have one year to use. Also, would the shift in salary allow the Spurs to be spenders in free agency.

[wdleehi]

Unless the move is for a star level big, I rather keep the top 5 players (Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown and Tatum) intact.   

[Phantom255x]

Glad to see giving up 3 bench players for a MVP caliber player is still the best possible offer here.

*gravelly voice over*
Celticsblog, Celticsblog never changes.

The three bench players are currently playing, engaged and contributing to playoff wins.

The other guy is in NY while his team just got eliminated probably looking at catalogs of Milwaukee, LA (Clips or Lakers), etc.

And even if he's solely staying out just to be cautious with his injury, then we can't ignore that he just missed an entire season due to it. Sounds big honestly.

Also, a suggested trade was Ingram for Kawhi. You're telling me Ingram ALONE is getting an MVP-Caliber talent? Wow.

[Ed Hollison]

Keep the team as is..hayward, irving and theiss coming back..resign smart and monroe..dont trade tatum or brown

Ditto. We are also forgetting that the team has already pushed the envelope on the heels of trading away favorite son IT. Players around the league pay attention and remember these things, that is cutting loose a top-5 MVP candidate after playing on a bum hip and suffering through his sister's tragic death. I'm not saying it was the wrong move to acquire Irving, but I'm saying the Celtics spent a good amount of their goodwill on that move.

Now, on the heels of that, you're telling me it's the right move to trade Irving for another upgrade? I'm not even sure it would be right to trade Horford, their biggest free agent acquisition in decades, in a package for Davis. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Let this team with Irving, Hayward, Horford, and the kids try it out for at least a season before you start tinkering. The Celtics are in a good spot: two budding superstars on rookie contracts, who won't get paid until other max guys roll off of theirs. Sounds good to me.

[Phantom255x]

Yeah, if you're telling me Ingram in value = Kyrie + 2018 BOS 1st + extra picks, sorry but that's just ridiculous. Doesn't matter if the Lakers are well under the cap to make it feasible, it's still ridiculous.

I don't see why the Spurs do that Lakers trade at all unless if no one else even makes an offer (like DeMarcus Cousins before he ultimately got dealt to the Pelicans for less than expected).

Lakers definitely have to throw in more pieces. That ESPN idea is ridiculous. And C's aren't dealing Kyrie.

[Tr1boy]

Yeah, if you're telling me Ingram in value = Kyrie + 2018 BOS 1st + extra picks, sorry but that's just ridiculous.

I don't see why the Spurs do that Lakers trade at all unless if no one else even makes an offer (like DeMarcus Cousins before he ultimately got dealt to the Pelicans for less than expected).

Lakers definitely have to throw in more pieces. That ESPN idea is ridiculous. And C's aren't dealing Kyrie.

You can't think of it that way

Plus why on earth would Lakers trade Leonard for Ingram straight up? 

Leonard for Brown maybe....but Ingram is injury prone

[footey]

I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

Id be more worried about Kyrie passing physical than Kawhi.