Author Topic: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick  (Read 5466 times)

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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2020, 12:25:24 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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Not a lazy man's argument at all. Danny showed his true colors in 2011 when he made the most disastrous trade of his tenure - and lost banner #18 in one day - by giving away Perk for Jeff Green - if that ain't choosing soft, finesse (and inefficient athleticism) for effective size that fit that particular team perfectly, I don't know what you would call it.

I didn't say he never acquired post players, but most are projects or undersized or finesse guys. This always puzzled me a little given the Celtics teams Danny played on that won with the best frontcourt combos in history with Bird, Max, McHale, Parish and then Walton for a season (I know, I know, the game has changed). Maybe, but obviously size and interior scoring & defense still matter, a lot. Just look at the very top of the league.
Yep, a washed up Perkins coming off a major injury would have totally made a difference. He became such a star in OKC ::)
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2020, 07:43:43 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Not a lazy man's argument at all. Danny showed his true colors in 2011 when he made the most disastrous trade of his tenure - and lost banner #18 in one day - by giving away Perk for Jeff Green - if that ain't choosing soft, finesse (and inefficient athleticism) for effective size that fit that particular team perfectly, I don't know what you would call it.

I didn't say he never acquired post players, but most are projects or undersized or finesse guys. This always puzzled me a little given the Celtics teams Danny played on that won with the best frontcourt combos in history with Bird, Max, McHale, Parish and then Walton for a season (I know, I know, the game has changed). Maybe, but obviously size and interior scoring & defense still matter, a lot. Just look at the very top of the league.
Yep, a washed up Perkins coming off a major injury would have totally made a difference. He became such a star in OKC ::)
Yeah, Perk was cooked. His rebounding, athleticism and defence all took huge steps back. He went from being a really solid contributor in 2009-10 to being one of the worst starting centers in the NBA in the span of about 18 months
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2020, 09:07:38 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Freshman 7' center from Arizona with size, agility and talent. Here is a quote from the ESPN story on him declaring for the draft today:

"The 7-footer averaged 16.1 points and 8.6 rebounds per game for the Wildcats, establishing himself as one of the hardest-playing big men in the country and vastly exceeding early expectations thanks to his agility, soft touch and efficient style of play."

C'mon Danny - for once, wake up and put a premium on size and our interior.
Along with a knock-down catch & shoot guy off the bench, this is our greatest need to win a title.

I guess you already miss kelly O

Because Zeke plays a similar game (good and bad aspects)

He got pushed around by other centers/pfs at times and is not good right now at boxing out (either not his style or not strong enough)

With the Bucks pick if he is there, it would be a good pick.  I also wouldnt be surprised if Danny takes Aleksej Pokusevski(another stretch C) draft-stash him

Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2020, 03:47:10 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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Not a lazy man's argument at all. Danny showed his true colors in 2011 when he made the most disastrous trade of his tenure - and lost banner #18 in one day - by giving away Perk for Jeff Green - if that ain't choosing soft, finesse (and inefficient athleticism) for effective size that fit that particular team perfectly, I don't know what you would call it.

I didn't say he never acquired post players, but most are projects or undersized or finesse guys. This always puzzled me a little given the Celtics teams Danny played on that won with the best frontcourt combos in history with Bird, Max, McHale, Parish and then Walton for a season (I know, I know, the game has changed). Maybe, but obviously size and interior scoring & defense still matter, a lot. Just look at the very top of the league.



Perk was hurt and never played the same again.  Maybe danny saw it coming like IT.  Plus we had signed Shaq and Jermaine O'Neal, so we thought we were set at the 5.  Not Danny's fault both O'neals got hurt and Green had that heart thing happen.  Green looked great at times.  He was terribly inconsistent but had talent.  At his best Green was really really good, only he was rarely at his best.

Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2020, 07:56:05 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Not a lazy man's argument at all. Danny showed his true colors in 2011 when he made the most disastrous trade of his tenure - and lost banner #18 in one day - by giving away Perk for Jeff Green - if that ain't choosing soft, finesse (and inefficient athleticism) for effective size that fit that particular team perfectly, I don't know what you would call it.

I didn't say he never acquired post players, but most are projects or undersized or finesse guys. This always puzzled me a little given the Celtics teams Danny played on that won with the best frontcourt combos in history with Bird, Max, McHale, Parish and then Walton for a season (I know, I know, the game has changed). Maybe, but obviously size and interior scoring & defense still matter, a lot. Just look at the very top of the league.



Perk was hurt and never played the same again.  Maybe danny saw it coming like IT.  Plus we had signed Shaq and Jermaine O'Neal, so we thought we were set at the 5.  Not Danny's fault both O'neals got hurt and Green had that heart thing happen.  Green looked great at times.  He was terribly inconsistent but had talent.  At his best Green was really really good, only he was rarely at his best.

Yeah, I really don't get this argument about Perkins having anything left in the tank. He was never the most agile athlete, although he certainly surprised his defenders with how quick his instincts are. But he relied on his ability to stand strong in the post against Dwight, which is why he was labeled the enforcer. But without KG, (of course KG is Hall of Famer + DPOY defender,) helping him shore up the defense, I don't think he would've been as effective. And he certainly would've been rendered useless in today's NBA.

Perkins was not only coming off MCL/PCL tear, but looked considerably worse laterally. There was no way anyone can argue Perkins value was any high either, and if Presti didn't have such a tendency to go after bruising slow footed bigs, I don't even think we could've gotten Green for him. It's a testament to Danny's ability to make solid valued deals.

Sure, revisionist bias aside, Perkins was beloved fan favorite here, and the pure example of a player where stats and box scores don't belie his importance. Despite all of that, would Perkins have even have any sort of impact on another team?

KG really was the glue and heart/soul of our championship squad.
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2020, 08:39:20 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I don't think Ainge has ever been afraid to draft bigs - Al Jefferson, Fab Melo (RIP), Sullinger, Olynyk, Zizic, Williams, etc. Or what about the "power forwards" like Yabu, Williams, Powe, Davis, etc.

If Ainge doesn't draft Nnaji it will be because Ainge doesn't believe he is a good player. Neither Ainge nor Stevens are afraid to play bigs, but their priority is always to put the players with the most talent on the court. A lot of bigs simply aren't talented basketball players. They are guys. They aren't difference makers. In that case, they'd prefer to put talented players on the court who are smaller than less talented players who are bigger.

I like Nnaji, but from the little I've seen of him, he looks like a bench big to me. NBA player, but not "the answer" to the questions inside.

Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2020, 01:04:30 AM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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This claim about Perk being so bad when he went to OKC is an ignorant argument. The point is that he fit that Celtics team, his skills, limited or not, were a perfect compliment and he gave us the interior toughness that the rest of the contenders didn't have.
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2020, 01:24:32 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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This claim about Perk being so bad when he went to OKC is an ignorant argument. The point is that he fit that Celtics team, his skills, limited or not, were a perfect compliment and he gave us the interior toughness that the rest of the contenders didn't have.
I'm glad he was tough. He still became a bad player that wouldn't have changed anything.
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2020, 06:15:24 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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This claim about Perk being so bad when he went to OKC is an ignorant argument. The point is that he fit that Celtics team, his skills, limited or not, were a perfect compliment and he gave us the interior toughness that the rest of the contenders didn't have.

Yeah I don't believe that at all..

Honestly, if there's anyone that might've been overrated by us, it's Kendrick Perkins.

We talk about how great of a player he was on the defensive end, but was he really? He was very strong, and a tough dude, so he was great against low-skill power bigs like Dwight/Josh Smith, but skilled big men with actual post moves like Pau Gasol made him look silly at times.

The truth is no matter how you slice it, Perkins is a solid defender. Elite? Beg to debate that for days. And the problem with him is his inability to score too... If Pierce/KG/Rondo/Allen are all in a funk offensively, you think we can expect Perkins to bail us out? His skill set was set good screens, mentor, leadership, instilled toughness, but otherwise poor hands, poor jump shot, not an elusive cutter either. Not to mention his passing was non-existent.

Very solid center on defense, but not the kind to step out to the perimeter.

2009-2010 might've been his best season, but the Celtics relied on our half court, grind it out, and tough defensive oriented basketball defensive scheme led by KG as our anchor to hold it down. We defended by committee, and if you didn't put your defensive chops at hand, Rivers would be quick to bench you; unless you were a well respected veteran, and maybe your playing time could hold credence.

At the time, Perkins, became beloved by all of us for his nasty demeanor and tough attitude. But no matter what, he was a solid 25 year old junkyard kind of guy who would fight you down bare to the bone, but was never really considered a great defender. I think we over hype him to such tenacity, and defend him to a certain belief that has me confused at times.

Games 1-5, Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum both averaged 28.4 PPG, (9.6 which belonged to Bynum) and then when Perkins went down, in Game 6-7, Gasol/Bynum averaged 20 PPG, (2 PPG belonging to Bynum.)

Further, Boston’s offensive rebounding percentage for Games 6 and 7 (21 percent) was nearly identical to its offensive rebounding percentage in Games 1, 3 and 5 (22.3 percent).

In reality, could Perkins have turned the tide? Maybe, maybe not. But to say that he would've been a game changer is almost peculiar in itself.

It doesn't change the fact when Perkins came to OKC, he wasn't healthy nor anywhere near the level that he was with us in 07-10. OKC did go 15-4 at the start of the trade, but it didn't change a thing considering he never became healthy after that.

And the truth of the matter is Ainge knew it, and that's why he made the trade.

Presti's infatuations with slow lumbering bigs, (Adams/McGary/Perkins) and dishing out contracts like it's free pancakes on Pancake Day at IHOP still makes me scratch my head at times. No matter how you slice it, if Presti didn't immediately extend Perkins for that money, he could've not only kept Ibaka, but also Harden. And... As we all know, the rest is history.

But I'm not going to talk about this topic anymore, since we all have differing opinions.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 06:24:38 AM by Monkhouse »
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2020, 05:30:24 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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I can't say that I watched enough Arizona to speak on Zeke Nnaji as well as some people who watched him play a lot.  I definitely watched a lot more Duke Basketball, which is why I'm hopping Vernon Carey will slide to 17, he's currently mocked at 13 on https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/.  I do think, from what I'v seen, that  Zeke Nnaji is too skinny to bang down low in the NBA.  Can you imagine  Zeke Nnaji trying to defend Joel Embiid in the low post.   Vernon Carey has more size and strength to match up with NBA centers and real power forwards.  It's most likely we cant get Vernon Carey at 17, but Isaiah Stewart is mocked at 21 and he also has the strength to bang with the big boys.   nbadraft.net only has a 5 lb difference between them but side by side I disagree even though Nnaji  is listed as 6'11 240 and Stewart is listed as 6'9 245 (w/7'4 wingspan).  When I was searching for clips of Nnaji and Stewart I found this:

Washington vs Arizona Basketball Condensed Game 3 7 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWTo4RRruk0

Stewart looked like the better prospect to me watching them head to head.  Stewart also looks more than 5 lbs bigger.

Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2020, 05:45:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I hope the Celtics stay far away from both Carey and Stewart. Carey is definitely a giant "will he eat his way out of basketball" risk given who his dad is and how big that man got. Heck, Carey had trouble staying on the court due to lack of conditioning at Duke . ~25mpg for a 19 year old high school stud is highly unusual. Look at how many minutes other stud 19 year old prospects usually play in college. It's 33-35 MPG normally.

Stewart has maturity issues and, I am being told, has baggage. I also, don't think he is all that good. His ceiling is much lower than Timelord's that is for sure.


Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2020, 06:45:37 AM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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MonkHouse I appreciate your thorough discussion regarding Kendrick Perkin's worth to the Celtics, either pre or post knee injury, but I became dizzy trying to keep track of all the arguments I consider incorrect or misled by false assumptions.

* He didn't guard Pau Gasol as much as Garnett did. Perk was covering Bynum and Odom and if you check the boxscores from the 2010 Finals, you will see that Perk held those two mostly in check until he was knocked out with the injury and we all know what happened to our defensive rebounding ability in Game 7.

*Perk & Co. were never a prolific offensive rebounding team by Doc's design. That's a meaningless stat comparison.
What you look at is the defensive rebounding, which suffered after Perk went down.

*The comment about Perk not having the ability to step out on the perimeter - are you serious ? Of course he didn't. The game, at that point, had not yet turned into the full blown 3-point contest that we see now. The ball still went inside and interior play still mattered a lot. The rest of the league was transitioning to soft-ball and having our physical interior play set us apart from the other contenders - it was the one advantage we had. Of course, we saw what happened when Danny Boy tried to go finesse vs finesse after acquiring "athletic" Jeff Green. Poor guy didn't have the guts for playoff basketball with the added pressure of wearing a Celtics jersey. He melted. Perk didn't melt.

* Finally, there is something called team unity and while maybe rare in pro sports, that Celtics team was as close as you will see in the NBA. They honestly played for each other and were on a mission to get the title back in 2011 after the pain of the 2010 finals. Danny ripped away an important part of the heart & soul of that group when he traded away Perk. Players were in tears at the hotel that afternoon.  Laugh if you feel a need, but if you have ever played a team sport at any decent level, you will understand the psyche of a close team.
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Re: Draft Zeke Nnaji with our Grizz pick
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2020, 02:34:12 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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MonkHouse I appreciate your thorough discussion regarding Kendrick Perkin's worth to the Celtics, either pre or post knee injury, but I became dizzy trying to keep track of all the arguments I consider incorrect or misled by false assumptions.

* He didn't guard Pau Gasol as much as Garnett did. Perk was covering Bynum and Odom and if you check the boxscores from the 2010 Finals, you will see that Perk held those two mostly in check until he was knocked out with the injury and we all know what happened to our defensive rebounding ability in Game 7.

*Perk & Co. were never a prolific offensive rebounding team by Doc's design. That's a meaningless stat comparison.
What you look at is the defensive rebounding, which suffered after Perk went down.

*The comment about Perk not having the ability to step out on the perimeter - are you serious ? Of course he didn't. The game, at that point, had not yet turned into the full blown 3-point contest that we see now. The ball still went inside and interior play still mattered a lot. The rest of the league was transitioning to soft-ball and having our physical interior play set us apart from the other contenders - it was the one advantage we had. Of course, we saw what happened when Danny Boy tried to go finesse vs finesse after acquiring "athletic" Jeff Green. Poor guy didn't have the guts for playoff basketball with the added pressure of wearing a Celtics jersey. He melted. Perk didn't melt.

* Finally, there is something called team unity and while maybe rare in pro sports, that Celtics team was as close as you will see in the NBA. They honestly played for each other and were on a mission to get the title back in 2011 after the pain of the 2010 finals. Danny ripped away an important part of the heart & soul of that group when he traded away Perk. Players were in tears at the hotel that afternoon.  Laugh if you feel a need, but if you have ever played a team sport at any decent level, you will understand the psyche of a close team.

I'm going to agree and disagree with some of your points, as I've mentioned this will be my last time talking about this topic since this has been discussed multiple times.

I agree unity is very important, but Perkins was no longer the same player after MCL/PCL tear, and giving him that hefty contract wasn't even advisable. But let's leave it at that. TP for the discussion.

I didn't want to derail any thread where the topic is talking about drafting someone over rehashed memories of a game we lost in the past.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different