Poll

First Take: Who's usually right?

Skip!
2 (13.3%)
Smith!
3 (20%)
I'd rather jump off a bridge than admit either is almost ever right/I always change the channel before I find out
8 (53.3%)
It pains me to say Skip. It reeaalllyyy pains me.
1 (6.7%)
It pains me to say Smith. It reallllyy pains me.
1 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 15

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Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »

Offline Eja117

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In theory if Skip is a troll what does that say? I assume the show is fairly highly rated.

The show actually isn't all that highly rated anymore. That's changing. But its the same thing as tabloids, or Fox News, or (insert preferred liberal foil to fox news), Bleacher Report, or Honey Boo Boo or whatever.

They scream things that elicit reactions, whether they're vehement agreement or disagreement, and make you choose a side to rah-rah for or against and get all worked up. Cuz we're simple and easily manipulated apparently, which is depressing.
Philosophically if Skip is going "yay yay Tebow!" or "I think Garnet could have been greatER had he done things different" I'm not sure that's trolling. Especially if the players themselves voted Tebow a top 100 player.

If Sherman says he's more accomplished than Skip (if I were skip my response would be 'Wait a minute. You just said you're top 22. I'm half of the top rated show so I'm at least #2, right"?)  in a way it strikes me that Sherman may have been the troll.

I wonder if maybe the Rob Parker thing wasn't more trolling. That thing was a travesty from start to finish.

Yeah, I think you're missing the bigger picture here, or at least as I see it. He's trolling because he's part of a show that attempts to engage audiences by loudly arguing a point with a counterpoint, even when there isn't really a debate to be had. Its the same thing as an advertisement on a webpage that says "Is Barack Obama Doing A Good Job? Make Your Voice Heard!!" They don't care what you think, or how hard you think it, or even if the POTUS is actually doing a good job or not, they want you to click on the ad.

Just like First Take doesn't actually argue with sincerity. They're trolling for responses (views, votes in polls, etc), not attempting to make quality programming.
I'll have to think that over. I somewhat agree, but by the same token if you clicked on the add and you got video (God forbid) of Bill Maher and Bill O'Reilly arguing about it...I mean that's still a show and a somewhat sincere one ...I think.  Maybe not.

I mean is a polarizing personality still a thoughtful or "good" or sincere one?  I think to at least some degree yes.

We have to admit if Skip got his own show we'd tune in at some point. I know for my part I'd be curious how he'd come off alone.

I'd expect Jim Rome...and that guy bugs me way more than either of these guys. Jim Rome...I guess I feel about him the way some of you feel about Skip, but the part that I really hate to admit is when he seems right. I hate hate it when Rome is right and it happens at least once a show. Errrrr

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 01:50:02 PM by eja117 »

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 01:45:08 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 01:48:07 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Smith by a longshot even though he is often not right either. Anybody but Skip "needs to Sayless" Bayless.

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 01:48:47 PM »

Offline Eja117

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One thing that annoys me is that other writers and sports personalities need to offer an alternative on some level. You can't just look down on a show from the Sports world of academia like you're too good for it. 

A lot of other people had their chance and didn't hold our attention.  I'd take PTI over this show. I'd take Sports Reporters over it. But they had their shots.  This show won. I realize people can like mindless trash, but obviously someone likes the show and I'm not willing to say my taste is better than theirs or that I'm somehow wiser because I don't watch it and they do.   

I don't get the Honey Boo Boo thing either.  I try not to think about that.

The show has its place in the world is all I'm saying. Apparently that place is on people's TVs

Dumb peoples' TV's. One of the biggest problems I have with the country's media right now is that we're equating popularity with quality. IE, 'If that show pull 200,000 households a day, they've gotta be doing something right. We could take a page from their book.'

It just becomes a race to the bottom.
On at least some level I think popularity is quality though. A sort of quality anyway. I mean why is Godfather so loved? Because it's good right? Why is Ben and Jerry's ice cream so loved? Because it's good right? I mean Gladiator may not have been the BEST film that year (actually the other nominees weren't that great. Chocolat, Crouching Tiger, Erin Brokovic, Traffic) but it won for a reason, right?

I mean yeah Ben and Jerrys probably just dumps a bunch of sugar and butter into their ice cream. That's why it's so good, right?

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 01:50:44 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I would love to say that I purposely wrote it wrong in a Voldemort You-Know-Who way, but we would both know I was lying

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 01:55:19 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I wish I could add some Felger related poll options.

There is no human being I dislike more than Felger.

That should be clear enough, I think, on where I stand in regards to him.

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 01:57:26 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I wish I could add some Felger related poll options.

There is no human being I dislike more than Felger.

That should be clear enough, I think, on where I stand in regards to him.
Not even Seth MacFarlane? Not even the Dalai Llama?

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 02:01:01 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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As it pertains to First Take, and Skippy and Stevie, I simply watch for laughs.  To me anyways, they are flat out hit-the-floor funny.  You just can't take them seriously.

I'll admit, sometimes I do get slightly too caught up in their "analysis", but do my best to refrain.  Occasionally, they do actually say somethin of merit, though.  I'm just not sure it's on purpose.

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 02:05:10 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Considering that neither actually holds the opinions they put forth on the show, and are fed their side of the "argument" by the producers, I'd say whoever comes out closest to your opinion on that particular day.

I mean, go through the tag IP posted, on the second page is the video I was talking about in the other thread, where they thought they were off air, and discussed who was going to yell at who for what. Smith even jokes " I can't believe i have to say this. "



 

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Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 02:13:50 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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One thing that annoys me is that other writers and sports personalities need to offer an alternative on some level. You can't just look down on a show from the Sports world of academia like you're too good for it. 

A lot of other people had their chance and didn't hold our attention.  I'd take PTI over this show. I'd take Sports Reporters over it. But they had their shots.  This show won. I realize people can like mindless trash, but obviously someone likes the show and I'm not willing to say my taste is better than theirs or that I'm somehow wiser because I don't watch it and they do.   

I don't get the Honey Boo Boo thing either.  I try not to think about that.

The show has its place in the world is all I'm saying. Apparently that place is on people's TVs

Dumb peoples' TV's. One of the biggest problems I have with the country's media right now is that we're equating popularity with quality. IE, 'If that show pull 200,000 households a day, they've gotta be doing something right. We could take a page from their book.'

It just becomes a race to the bottom.
On at least some level I think popularity is quality though. A sort of quality anyway. I mean why is Godfather so loved? Because it's good right? Why is Ben and Jerry's ice cream so loved? Because it's good right? I mean Gladiator may not have been the BEST film that year (actually the other nominees weren't that great. Chocolat, Crouching Tiger, Erin Brokovic, Traffic) but it won for a reason, right?

I mean yeah Ben and Jerrys probably just dumps a bunch of sugar and butter into their ice cream. That's why it's so good, right?

I think you're getting at the gist of the problem (in my eyes). Things can be popular because they're good. But things are not good because they're popular.

Example: Cheeseburgers.

McDonald's Cheeseburgers and Burger King's Cheeseburgers are probably the two most purchased cheeseburgers in the country. Some people prefer McDonald's, some BK's, people have even debated which one is the best. They're always available, easily recognizable, and have a butt-load of advertising power. 

But do any of those things make them 'good'? No man, they're junk food. You shouldn't equate quantity to quality.

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Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 02:22:04 PM »

Offline Eja117

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One thing that annoys me is that other writers and sports personalities need to offer an alternative on some level. You can't just look down on a show from the Sports world of academia like you're too good for it. 

A lot of other people had their chance and didn't hold our attention.  I'd take PTI over this show. I'd take Sports Reporters over it. But they had their shots.  This show won. I realize people can like mindless trash, but obviously someone likes the show and I'm not willing to say my taste is better than theirs or that I'm somehow wiser because I don't watch it and they do.   

I don't get the Honey Boo Boo thing either.  I try not to think about that.

The show has its place in the world is all I'm saying. Apparently that place is on people's TVs

Dumb peoples' TV's. One of the biggest problems I have with the country's media right now is that we're equating popularity with quality. IE, 'If that show pull 200,000 households a day, they've gotta be doing something right. We could take a page from their book.'

It just becomes a race to the bottom.
On at least some level I think popularity is quality though. A sort of quality anyway. I mean why is Godfather so loved? Because it's good right? Why is Ben and Jerry's ice cream so loved? Because it's good right? I mean Gladiator may not have been the BEST film that year (actually the other nominees weren't that great. Chocolat, Crouching Tiger, Erin Brokovic, Traffic) but it won for a reason, right?

I mean yeah Ben and Jerrys probably just dumps a bunch of sugar and butter into their ice cream. That's why it's so good, right?

I think you're getting at the gist of the problem (in my eyes). Things can be popular because they're good. But things are not good because they're popular.

Example: Cheeseburgers.

McDonald's Cheeseburgers and Burger King's Cheeseburgers are probably the two most purchased cheeseburgers in the country. Some people prefer McDonald's, some BK's, people have even debated which one is the best. They're always available, easily recognizable, and have a butt-load of advertising power. 

But do any of those things make them 'good'? No man, they're junk food. You shouldn't equate quantity to quality.
Now we're getting apples and oranges although I always think that's a very worthy discussion.

I mean the best burger in the world is probably in someone's grandmama's kitchen but if everywhere you go you ask people where can I get a good burger and they say "Well you can go over to that McDs..." I mean that counts for something.

I mean by this logic the best sports show in America might be coming from someone's garage. And actually I admit whatever that show is I'd rather watch it than First Take or Jim Rome.

I kinda feel this way right now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3q4RZz-PfI

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 02:27:33 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Considering that neither actually holds the opinions they put forth on the show, and are fed their side of the "argument" by the producers, I'd say whoever comes out closest to your opinion on that particular day.

I mean, go through the tag IP posted, on the second page is the video I was talking about in the other thread, where they thought they were off air, and discussed who was going to yell at who for what. Smith even jokes " I can't believe i have to say this. "

This is a valid point, when considering whether or not either one have any actual knowledge of sports.

In fact, Skip is probably one of the more knowledgeable reporters/analysts out there, he just doesn't show it any more.  The man has been in the business for a long, long time, both as a beat writer and columnist.  He's proven his credibility.

With Skip, in particular, he just (apparently) has made the conscious decision to cash in that credibility for a big payday.  It seems he decided he was at the point in his career where the money was more important than legitimacy.  I won't fault him for that.

Steven A. Smith, on the other hand, I'm not sure was ever about anything other than style over substance.  He isn't a stupid as he portrays himself as either, though.

Re: First Take: Who's usually right?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 03:17:46 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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One thing that annoys me is that other writers and sports personalities need to offer an alternative on some level. You can't just look down on a show from the Sports world of academia like you're too good for it. 

A lot of other people had their chance and didn't hold our attention.  I'd take PTI over this show. I'd take Sports Reporters over it. But they had their shots.  This show won. I realize people can like mindless trash, but obviously someone likes the show and I'm not willing to say my taste is better than theirs or that I'm somehow wiser because I don't watch it and they do.   

I don't get the Honey Boo Boo thing either.  I try not to think about that.

The show has its place in the world is all I'm saying. Apparently that place is on people's TVs

Dumb peoples' TV's. One of the biggest problems I have with the country's media right now is that we're equating popularity with quality. IE, 'If that show pull 200,000 households a day, they've gotta be doing something right. We could take a page from their book.'

It just becomes a race to the bottom.
On at least some level I think popularity is quality though. A sort of quality anyway. I mean why is Godfather so loved? Because it's good right? Why is Ben and Jerry's ice cream so loved? Because it's good right? I mean Gladiator may not have been the BEST film that year (actually the other nominees weren't that great. Chocolat, Crouching Tiger, Erin Brokovic, Traffic) but it won for a reason, right?

I mean yeah Ben and Jerrys probably just dumps a bunch of sugar and butter into their ice cream. That's why it's so good, right?

I think you're getting at the gist of the problem (in my eyes). Things can be popular because they're good. But things are not good because they're popular.

Example: Cheeseburgers.

McDonald's Cheeseburgers and Burger King's Cheeseburgers are probably the two most purchased cheeseburgers in the country. Some people prefer McDonald's, some BK's, people have even debated which one is the best. They're always available, easily recognizable, and have a butt-load of advertising power. 

But do any of those things make them 'good'? No man, they're junk food. You shouldn't equate quantity to quality.
Now we're getting apples and oranges although I always think that's a very worthy discussion.

I mean the best burger in the world is probably in someone's grandmama's kitchen but if everywhere you go you ask people where can I get a good burger and they say "Well you can go over to that McDs..." I mean that counts for something.

Availability and recognition don't mean excellence though. It just means its out there, and people know about it. Would First Take get half as many viewers if it wasn't on ESPN, and didn't have ESPN's ad machine behind it?

A good example of this is with beer. Did you see this commercial during the super bowl?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpAj5q2ZRz4

This is made by Miller. It is a craptastic beer. Its made to provide a counterpunch to the more creative craft beers. People know about it because Miller made it. And its terrible.

But because it was on a superbowl commercial, I tried it. I hate myself a little for it, but I tried it. Now, I've promised myself I'll try this beer, to make up for it. Because excellence should be rewarded.

Quote
I mean by this logic the best sports show in America might be coming from someone's garage. And actually I admit whatever that show is I'd rather watch it than First Take or Jim Rome.

Well in all likelihood, the best 'show' out there is probably coming in the form of a podcast, but it doesn't mean its obscure. One of the most popular sports podcasts in the world is also likely one of the best, and its the BS Report. Then you've got like, the Dan Patrick Show, etc..Mike and Mike is even pretty good, and they try that debate stuff sometimes.

I guess my point is, just because its big doesn't mean its good, and first take ain't good. There are no winners there, only losers.

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