Sully has to GO!!!!

[SCeltic34]

oh goody. another over reaction thread on cb.

The way that the original post is worded and punctuated is reeks of overreaction.  But the premise of the post actually does not.

Sullinger provides some of the things that this team is lacking, most namely rebounding (which has declined, as shown above) and a large body to bang against the larger centers of the league.  He has great hands, nice touch around the basket, and can make the occasional assist to a cutting teammate.

But his presence starves us many things that we do need, including:
- Team defense.  Sully is a major defensive liability, especially with respect to the modern NBA game.  He's far too immobile to (1) switch onto smaller players (which is huge in the modern game; (2) play respectable pick and roll defense without either surrendering a shot at the basket with poor resistance to a quick, driving player, or surrendering an open mid-range jump shot or 3-point shot; (3) offer a consistent interior defensive presence; (4) make proper rotations when the opposing team is moving the ball rapidly.  I'm thrilled whenever he actually makes the correct defensive rotation in time, because he fails to do so regularly.
- Individual defense.  He can play respectable defense against large, plodding players that have limited skill sets.  Otherwise he again is a major liability.  He cannot guard skilled or quick players.
- Shooting.  His outside shot has not improved.  He is not a perimeter player, and he certainly does not space the floor.  Even when he makes long 2's or the occasional 3-point shot, I see it as a low-percentage shot.  Teams need to give up something in the NBA, and a perimeter shot from a center with a poor jump shot is at the top of the list.  Opposing teams will happily live with Sully bombing from the perimeter.
- Free throw shooting.  He doesn't play enough around the basket.  And when he does and manages to draw fouls, he shoots a poor percentage from the free throw line, which has notably declined dramatically this season.
- Commitment to himself and the team.  He's noticeably gained weight over the season.  Again.  It affects his conditioning and his performance on the court.  Does not bode well for a player in a contract year.

My biggest issues are his defensive liabilities and his inability to commit himself to manage his weight and conditioning.  This isn't a reaction to the Hawks game, but rather to his entire season in general.  I absolutely don't want to see Sully on the Celtics any longer, and I'd be thrilled to see Danny let him walk. 

[86MaxwellSmart]

REALLY?

You watched this game and thought Sully was the problem with this team? He mostly guarded Millsap and Millsap was mostly contained in this game with a mediocre 14 and 7.

Want to be mad at players? How about anyone guarding Jeff Teague who made every Celtic guarding him look like they were standing still? How about anyone guarding Kent Bazemore who scored pretty much at will and seemed to get every loose ball around? How about giving some crap to Olynyk and Jerebko who were both horrible on both ends of the floor? How about our SFs going a combined 9 for 29?

There was a lot to focus on that wasn't good but I didn't see that in his limited minutes that Sully was one of those major problems, especially since he got two or three of the chinciest fouls in the game called against him. The problems were the guards allowing Teague to blow by them, not hustling for rebounds in the first half, horrid shooting from the perimeter and bad shot selection in the first half, not taking the ball inside in the first half, and just not coming prepared out of the gates.

BINGO-!

[beantownboy171]

All of our big men are expendable.

[greece66]

I read only the OP and my reaction is ... playoffs have barely started and the anger is real

Look, it's simple

-this team has three good offensive options (IT, Crowder, AB)
-of these three, only IT is arguably an elite, top20 scorer in the League; and this is based on his performance this year, not through his career. Crowder and AB would not be seen as first choice scorers in most other playoffs teams
http://tinyurl.com/ju9w66n
-AB did not play tonight; so we were left with only two solid offensive players

And despite all that, we stayed in the game.

What I take from this game is that we are playoffs ready. We are unlikely to make the next round, but the team is able to compete at high levels of competition.

Add to this:
-we probably have the worst roster of all the teams that made the playoffs (maybe Dallas is worse, but they still have Nowitzki who is insanely good)
-Toronto just lost at home to Indy; and we are talking of a team that was seen as a near contender
-Dallas and Houston were blown out

and I think it is clear today's performance was OK; not great but OK.

PS regarding Sully, his whole season was underwhelming for a talented player on a contract year. At some point, he looked close to becoming a solid double double PF; and then he had some really mediocre games. Whether we keep him will depend on who else will become available in FA and the draft and how much money he will ask- but he is hardly a foundational piece for this team, has wasted too many good opportunities. Having said this, he is still able to have big nights; so I would not write him off entirely.

[chambers]

We missed way too many threes and jumpshots in the first half and the refs weren't awesome either.

Not Sully's fault. We got back in the game with him at the 5 and Amir on the bench.

[RockinRyA]

You should be mad at Olynyk for not showing up instead. Had shoot like he always does, we will have more spacing and the paint will open up for guards to attack. Sully had his hands full guarding Millsap and he produced 9 pts and 6 rebounds under 20 minutes.

He had as many fouls as he did rebounds.  Give me a break!!!

Smitty77

The Hawks are just a bad matchup.

[Sixth Man]

What's he weigh these days?  285?  Simply ridiculous...

[crimson_stallion]

Sully was going up against millsap all night.  Not exactly an easy assignment.   The truth is without sully's rebounds we wouldn't even be here.  We lost game 1. The sky is not falling.  We outplayed them the entire second half.

Mostly when Sully was not on the floor.

No offense, but I do agree with the OP - Sully was horrendous today.  He was by far the worst player on the court for almost the entirety of the game.

He allowed countless easy baskets, performed a number of stupid fouls, lost the ball a ton of times, fell over on to his butt multiple times, and missed a number of shots he should have made.

Whenever he stepped onto the court, we were getting killed.

The sad part is that I think Brad actually recognised this, because as the game went on he started subbing Sully out on a regular basis, and only seemed to bring him back in when other guys were either tired or in foul trouble.

I know Sully is better then he showed today - I think we all know this.  I'm not going to cave the walls on him completely after one game where, in all honesty, most of the team played bad (Crowder was mostly terrible too). 

But over this recent run of really bad play, Sully (also Crowder) has been terrible, and if I were Brad I would have him on a very short leash right now.  This is the playoffs, and you need to play the guys who are making winning plays rather than the guys who have the most talent.  If somebody is making constant bonehead plays, then you need to get him out.

Lets see how Sully does in game two, and go from there.

[crimson_stallion]

You should be mad at Olynyk for not showing up instead. Had shoot like he always does, we will have more spacing and the paint will open up for guards to attack. Sully had his hands full guarding Millsap and he produced 9 pts and 6 rebounds under 20 minutes.

He had as many fouls as he did rebounds.  Give me a break!!!

Smitty77

The Hawks are just a bad matchup.

No, he was bad.  Really bad.  Sully fanboys need to step back and look at the situation objectively - this was a stinker game, and one of the worst overall games I've seen Sully play in his career.

He looked like both lazy and lost out there today.  He needs to play better.

That said, we all have bad games sometimes - he deserves a chance.  But he cannot afford another stinker like tonight.

Also RockinRYa - Olynyk was much better then Sully today.  He may not have scored much, but he made smart plays and defended well.  Sully looked like he was turning the ball over (or falling over) once every ever 2 minutes.  He played bad, no point in denying it.

[crimson_stallion]

oh goody. another over reaction thread on cb.

The way that the original post is worded and punctuated is reeks of overreaction.  But the premise of the post actually does not.

Sullinger provides some of the things that this team is lacking, most namely rebounding (which has declined, as shown above) and a large body to bang against the larger centers of the league.  He has great hands, nice touch around the basket, and can make the occasional assist to a cutting teammate.

But his presence starves us many things that we do need, including:
- Team defense.  Sully is a major defensive liability, especially with respect to the modern NBA game.  He's far too immobile to (1) switch onto smaller players (which is huge in the modern game; (2) play respectable pick and roll defense without either surrendering a shot at the basket with poor resistance to a quick, driving player, or surrendering an open mid-range jump shot or 3-point shot; (3) offer a consistent interior defensive presence; (4) make proper rotations when the opposing team is moving the ball rapidly.  I'm thrilled whenever he actually makes the correct defensive rotation in time, because he fails to do so regularly.
- Individual defense.  He can play respectable defense against large, plodding players that have limited skill sets.  Otherwise he again is a major liability.  He cannot guard skilled or quick players.
- Shooting.  His outside shot has not improved.  He is not a perimeter player, and he certainly does not space the floor.  Even when he makes long 2's or the occasional 3-point shot, I see it as a low-percentage shot.  Teams need to give up something in the NBA, and a perimeter shot from a center with a poor jump shot is at the top of the list.  Opposing teams will happily live with Sully bombing from the perimeter.
- Free throw shooting.  He doesn't play enough around the basket.  And when he does and manages to draw fouls, he shoots a poor percentage from the free throw line, which has notably declined dramatically this season.
- Commitment to himself and the team.  He's noticeably gained weight over the season.  Again.  It affects his conditioning and his performance on the court.  Does not bode well for a player in a contract year.

My biggest issues are his defensive liabilities and his inability to commit himself to manage his weight and conditioning.  This isn't a reaction to the Hawks game, but rather to his entire season in general.  I absolutely don't want to see Sully on the Celtics any longer, and I'd be thrilled to see Danny let him walk.

I agree with a lot of what you have said here. 

My thoughts on Sully this season:

1) He has really improved his rebounding - he's actually putting up elite numbers on the boards this year

2) He's mostly improved his shot selection - the three point attempts are still there (and still make me shake my head), but they have been reduced.  In fact since the All-Star break he seems to be taking barely one three a game (if that).

3) He is a poor finisher around the basket - contrary to what many think, Sully is really quite poor around the basket.  He's shot around 59% around the basket the past few years and seems to miss way too many relatively easy finishes around there.  He missed at least one (if not more) wide open layups tonight, and it's not a first.

4) Hero ball - Sully seems convinced that he's a star, because he forces plays far too often.  He'll catch the ball in the high post and try to force offence against solid defensive players, and it too often ends with him either turning the ball over, bricking a contested fadeaway jumper, or bricking a 10 foot hook shot.  Neither of those options is a high percentage play, and they almost always miss.  Today was a perfect example, because he tried to force things multiple times and almost every time it ended badly.  Sully is a skilled player, but he needs to learn to play within himself (think Amir Johnson) rather than trying to do too much.

5) Coinsistency - everybody outside of the biggest of stars will struggle to dominate on a consistent basis.  Every non-star player is going to have good nights and bad nights.  The worrying part with Sully is that he seems to go through good and bad phases, and those phases seem to last for days / weeks / months (rather than simply one game at a time).  He'll play really well for a few 4 or 5 weeks and will start to earn my trust again, then he'll go for another 4 or 5 week stretch where he is so bad I want him benched.  It's not so much a case of him just struggling, because it's the mental stuff (shot selection, effort, etc) that he seems to be inconsistent with. 

For example I have seen Sully go through stretches where, for weeks, he plays some seriously fantastic defence...and then for 4 or 5 straight game he seems to show no interest at all on D.   

I've been saying it all season long and I still stick by it - Sully's biggest problems are mental.  He needs to show more consistent effort / motor, and he needs to be consistently more intelligent with his decision making and shot selection.  When Sully plays the game the right way, he is a really good player.  When he plays it the wrong way, he is a major liability.

[iadera]

Yes! Definitely! And Turner with him. His basketball IQ is at least questionable.

[jambr380]

Crimson, I agree with a lot of what you said, but it's pretty clear that Sully's main issue is physical, not mental. Many of those things you discuss as mental lapses would be better corrected if he were just in average shape. Even the announcers noted he could not jump high enough to dunk.

It'll be very interesting to see what offers Sully gets this year. Massively overweight players don't often get mega-contracts.

[JumpingJudkins]

Yesterday's terrible game aside, I'm just ready for the Sullinger era to end.

He's an excellent rebounder, has good hands, can bang with the big guys inside and makes great outlet passes. But he's so very limited.

He's cut down on the threes, mercifully, but his perimeter shooting is still terrible, and he also doesn't finish well around the basket. How many successful teams have a power forward or center shooting 43 percent?

He can't protect the basket and he can't get up and down the floor. And he can't get in even mediocre physical condition, not even in a contract year. Physically he's never going to get better than this.

Sully can play in this league, but it should be as a backup.

[Rosco917]

Sully is not a starter quality player, at least until he gets his weight, and conditioning under control. Which may never happen (see Big Baby)

He is a strong rebounder, and a decent backup, in short minutes. He should be signed, or not signed with that in mind. Team friendly contract or bye bye.

[nickagneta]

While I agree sully has worn out his welcome in Boston and that his lack of discipline in getting himself in top shape means he has to go because it effects his play, I think the people saying Sully had an exceptionally bad game or was the reason for this loss are just taking their dislike of Sully and having it cloud their opinion of his play and what he did last night.