Refereeing has been [terrible] this playoffs

[crownsy]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

I think the bulls fans and at least this celtics fan would point to the league  not calling rondo's flagrant 1 on brad miller correctly in game. (spare me the FT miss for a moment, you could play devils advocate that if its a flagrant 1, miller leaves the game and gordon nails both.)

[PierceMVP08]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

I think the bulls fans and at least this celtics fan would point to the league  not calling rondo's flagrant 1 on brad miller correctly in game. (spare me the FT miss for a moment, you could play devils advocate that if its a flagrant 1, miller leaves the game and gordon nails both.)

How about Brad Miller hits his free throws?  The dazed and confused act at the foul line by him was pathetic. 

[angryguy77]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

Its not really about the refs costing us games, although I will say had we lost there would have been many questions and threads about the PP lame fouls called on him (fouls 3and5 to be specific). I'm not willing to say that every bad officiated(im talking atrocious) game can be overcome by the players unless they play almost perfect. No team has that anount of talent to do that everytime its encountered, it happens more a lot in this league.

Bottom line is I dont believe every lose is because of the refs, but I dont believe in certain cases that it can be ruled out/

[crownsy]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

I think the bulls fans and at least this celtics fan would point to the league  not calling rondo's flagrant 1 on brad miller correctly in game. (spare me the FT miss for a moment, you could play devils advocate that if its a flagrant 1, miller leaves the game and gordon nails both.)

How about Brad Miller hits his free throws?  The dazed and confused act at the foul line by him was pathetic. 

how is that relevant to the issue? you asked for one thing anyone could point to where we benifited/ were hurt by an officals call, I gave the first one that popped into my head.

I specificly said to ignore the miss because you asked for a devils advocate scenario.

If that foul is correctly called (it should have been a flagrant one) then miller doesn't have to shoot the FT's. Again, as i said, lets assume he really was woozy after losing a tooth and taking an elbow to the jaw. gordon hits both and the bulls get a chance to win.

Instead, we got the benifit of the call and won. you could argue that the refs decided that game by making an incorrect call.

[PierceMVP08]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

Its not really about the refs costing us games, although I will say had we lost there would have been many questions and threads about the PP lame fouls called on him (fouls 3and5 to be specific). I'm not willing to say that every bad officiated(im talking atrocious) game can be overcome by the players unless they play almost perfect. No team has that anount of talent to do that everytime its encountered, it happens more a lot in this league.

Bottom line is I dont believe every lose is because of the refs, but I dont believe in certain cases that it can be ruled out/

I certainly will agree that refs can cost a team a game in certain situations.  However, I can't think of a game ever where you can say the refs cost a team throughout the game.  When a ref costs a team a game it is usually one bad call at the end of games.  Seeing Gilbert Arenas beat the celts of free throws in two separate occasions a few years back comes to mind.

[nickagneta]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

Its not really about the refs costing us games, although I will say had we lost there would have been many questions and threads about the PP lame fouls called on him (fouls 3and5 to be specific). I'm not willing to say that every bad officiated(im talking atrocious) game can be overcome by the players unless they play almost perfect. No team has that anount of talent to do that everytime its encountered, it happens more a lot in this league.

Bottom line is I dont believe every lose is because of the refs, but I dont believe in certain cases that it can be ruled out/

I certainly will agree that refs can cost a team a game in certain situations.  However, I can't think of a game ever where you can say the refs cost a team throughout the game.  When a ref costs a team a game it is usually one bad call at the end of games.  Seeing Gilbert Arenas beat the celts of free throws in two separate occasions a few years back comes to mind.

My guess is that Dallas fans would not agree with this statement after watching DWade go to the line like 100 times in one game in the Finals a few years back.

[PierceMVP08]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

I think the bulls fans and at least this celtics fan would point to the league  not calling rondo's flagrant 1 on brad miller correctly in game. (spare me the FT miss for a moment, you could play devils advocate that if its a flagrant 1, miller leaves the game and gordon nails both.)

How about Brad Miller hits his free throws?  The dazed and confused act at the foul line by him was pathetic. 

how is that relevant to the issue? you asked for one thing anyone could point to where we benifited/ were hurt by an officals call, I gave the first one that popped into my head.

I specificly said to ignore the miss because you asked for a devils advocate scenario.

If that foul is correctly called (it should have been a flagrant one) then miller doesn't have to shoot the FT's. Again, as i said, lets assume he really was woozy after losing a tooth and taking an elbow to the jaw. gordon hits both and the bulls get a chance to win.

Instead, we got the benifit of the call and won. you could argue that the refs decided that game by making an incorrect call.

Like I posted above, I will clarify my stance a bit.  Yes, refs can cost a team a game, but it rarely happens.  If they blew that call, which I think they didn't but that's a whole different convo, then yes, they cost the Bulls the game.  But it wasn't a concerted effort to do so throughout the game.  Had the Bulls played better throughout the game, or Brad Miller made his free throws (this is why I said what i did earlier) they win the game.  In the end, the players still had the capability of winning the game.  The refs weren't the overwhelming force.

[PierceMVP08]

refereeing has been less than even handed in my opinion. However, nobody loses a game because of the refs. You lose games because of coaching and players you don't lose because of the refs.

You are forgetting the Donaghy factor here. There is a precedent.

Just like every lose cannot be balnketed with the refs being at fault, not every lose can be blanketed with players being at fault.

There are games where only perfect execution will get you by what the refs are doing. Take the Cleveland game at boston this year. The refs did everything they could to give them that game, but we played flawless and won. The problem is I dont know of ant team that can play flawless night in and night out. I dont believe in blaming the refs every time your team loses, but it can be a valid arguement that they have cost teams games.

Well I mean I guess its just a difference of opinion. Basketball was never my sport, so I dunno how players look at calls the refs make, but I know in football we could never blame the game on the refs. In a lot of ways its like blaming the game on the rain, or the snow, or the heat, or the bus ride over, or the crowd, or the sloppy turf...whatever. Its all the same crap. The refs, like the weather, are just another factor you can't control.

So bottom line, instead of blaming the loss on that holding call on the 3rd down with 1 minute left in the 4th, blame it on the blown coverage at halftime that left their guy open. Blame it on how you mishandled the block, or blame it on how you didn't fold on the double team. Blame it on whoever you want but whatever it is, all it should do is serve as a testament that there are always ways you can execute better, and be a better player, and be a better team. Blaming it on the refs is just an excuse to accept your own mediocrity.

Kind of a hard line to toe, but my football coach was a real jerk.

No, your coach was just a coach and he's 100% right. As a player, the refs never determine the outcome of the game. But a coach at times and fans very often don't see it that way.

The coach has to convince the players to adapt, to fight through, to overcome any and all obstacles. And that includes the refs. But in the coarse of any game, there are times when very significant calls that are wrong can change the momentum and ultimately the outcome of a game. Seeing and understanding this, more and more, video review is being used as a tool to eliminate as many of these moments as is possible.

The problem is that in some sports(international football, hockey and basketball) video review isn't conducive to every important moment. The key is proper training and overall consistency of the enforcement of the rules by the officiating body as a whole. As a whole, the NBA officiating body is as bad and  inconsistent as it gets in professional sports.

Come on guys, give me a break. Point to one game in these playoffs where the official have either caused the Celtics the game or won it for them.  Yeah, they blow calls but they don't decide the outcome of the game.  Do you honestly think that they think about making the game close or making one player a bigger star (something that was said in another thread) in a split second when they make a call?  I have reffed before in a youth league, and I can distinctly remember calling a foul where there was no foul.  There was contact on the play but it wasn't a foul.  I simply looked at the nature of the play and the whistle blew.  I knew I made the wrong call after the fact, but I couldn't take it back.  I didn't do it with a purpose but it was just a human judgment error.  NBA refs must and are more professional but that doesn't mean they don't commit mistakes at time.  Basketball is the hardest sport to ref.

Somebody above said that the refs are told to keep the games close, well how do you explain three blowouts in the first three games.  You knew their eventually had to be a close game in this series; they are both quality teams.  Can we please stop blaming the refs for everything, even after WINS!!!  Hearing all the whining ruins the experience as a basketball fan.

Its not really about the refs costing us games, although I will say had we lost there would have been many questions and threads about the PP lame fouls called on him (fouls 3and5 to be specific). I'm not willing to say that every bad officiated(im talking atrocious) game can be overcome by the players unless they play almost perfect. No team has that anount of talent to do that everytime its encountered, it happens more a lot in this league.

Bottom line is I dont believe every lose is because of the refs, but I dont believe in certain cases that it can be ruled out/

I certainly will agree that refs can cost a team a game in certain situations.  However, I can't think of a game ever where you can say the refs cost a team throughout the game. When a ref costs a team a game it is usually one bad call at the end of games.  Seeing Gilbert Arenas beat the celts of free throws in two separate occasions a few years back comes to mind.

My guess is that Dallas fans would not agree with this statement after watching DWade go to the line like 100 times in one game in the Finals a few years back.

I'm sure if we go back and watch the game, the majority of the calls are good calls.  Sure there are bad calls in there, but I do not contest that bad calls don't exist.  The way Dwade plays lends itself to him getting himself to the line a lot. 

[fairweatherfan]

I really don't think it matters if the refs affect the outcome or not.  Regardless of result, when the refereeing is bad the quality of the game suffers, not to mention all the ammo it gives the conspiracy kooks. 

Same way if the Celtics play lousy but win, we don't shrug and say "Well, it didn't affect the outcome."  It hurts the quality of the game, and it worries us going forward because we expect it to burn us later.