Sam

[Redz]

in the "i hate sam" threads i never see the sam lovers in those threads defending him...

I've sort given up the fight.  Much like I have with supporting Doc.  It's tough to support someone after they've had a sucky game though (and they both have had some off performance this playoffs). 

I used to throw an occasional douse attempt of "I LOVE DOC" against the flames, but I've given up the fight. 

[fan33]

in the "i hate sam" threads i never see the sam lovers in those threads defending him...

Oh please, sience day one He has had defenders, of whom I am only one of the many, rehashing over the same material. It simply got stuplifyingly tiring and as Redz says, many simply got tired of typing, IMO&E...

Swig a 40oz for Sam, now!  lol

[Kuberski33]

Too often, fans I think fail to properly value the guys whose teams always seem to win.  And Sam has been on winning teams for most of his career. He was brought in to the inevitable playoff games when Rondo struggles and he's played a huge role in this series so far. I think it was Kenny Smith or Reggie Miller who said Sam was brought on board specifically for Rounds 2-4 of the playoffs.

I think we're now starting to see why. 

[Bahku]

I think Sam has been effective here, and has done what he was brought here to do, for the most part. I like that he's been looking to pass a bit more lately, and I think he's been seeing the effectiveness of that, and that he's been learning as much from Rage, as he's been teaching him. That open-mindedness was the major worry I had about Sammy, and he's showing a willingness to adapt.

He's made some big shots, and while he didn't shoot well tonight, he supplied enough of those intangibles to make a significant contribution. The tempo still changed a bit when he came in, but it's beginning to not be as dramatically different as it was, and I feel better about that, too. I still don't see him as the monster or savior that some do, but I'm feeling much more positive about what he can bring to the playoffs than I was. Nice job, Sam ... truly!

[BudweiserCeltic]

Not going to bust his balls over a bad shooting night last night just because he shot extremely well when it counted, most of his misses came in the 4th when the play got a bit sloppy during garbage time or when the game was well in hand.  Extremely good game moving the ball, and good job by Doc staying with him in the 2nd quarter, and good job by Rondo responding to his bad play and making a much better job in the 3rd quarter moving the ball and improved decision making.

[celticmaestro]

in the "i hate sam" threads i never see the sam lovers in those threads defending him...

I've sort given up the fight.  Much like I have with supporting Doc.  It's tough to support someone after they've had a sucky game though (and they both have had some off performance this playoffs). 

I used to throw an occasional douse attempt of "I LOVE DOC" against the flames, but I've given up the fight. 

same here. i do my best to support doc and sam, but no one listens and these people are relentless in their pursuit of blaming people when it's not their fault.

[CoachBo]

Sam's doing exactly what he was brought in to do - keep the offense together when Rondo disappears, generally when he begins to pound the basketball instead of move it.

And we've seen clearly that Rondo is predisposed to disappear at times - as he did last night.

Mission accomplished with Sam. Good addition.

[nickagneta]

I may be one of the top five defenders of Doc and Sam on this website and it just gets head banging against the wall aggravating dealing with the people who have firmly decided that these men are a detriment to this team and never relent on their criticism or will stop to acknowledge when things are going well with Doc and Sam.

I give props to EJPLAYA who is one of those guys that will admit when Doc and Sam have good nights and games. He is one of the few. Most just disappear into cyberspace until the next loss or close game so that they can come out and start their bashing anew.

But I can't wait for the Celtics to win the championship so I can start a very obnoxious "I told you so" thread calling out all the bashers. It will probably get me a one week suspension from the site for breaking the rules about doing such things but I will have a crap eating grin on my face that entire week.

[Shamrock]

Sam definately gave us a lift when he came off the bench - and kudos to him for that contribution - but lets not go crazy here... he was still 4 for 12 in FGM/A.

I still think Eddie House could have made the same contribution that Sam did.

I credit Leon and Posey as much (if not more) then Sam in that bench effort.

Rondo had a terrible 1st quarter - but so did Perk and Ray Allen.

You can't pin all of the success/failure on one player.

[EJPLAYA]

in the "i hate sam" threads i never see the sam lovers in those threads defending him...

I've sort given up the fight.  Much like I have with supporting Doc.  It's tough to support someone after they've had a sucky game though (and they both have had some off performance this playoffs). 

I used to throw an occasional douse attempt of "I LOVE DOC" against the flames, but I've given up the fight. 

same here. i do my best to support doc and sam, but no one listens and these people are relentless in their pursuit of blaming people when it's not their fault.

I have been one of the biggest anti-Sam posters on here and still think that House could have performed the role that Sam is since he had been doing it for 60 games before Sam got here. That being said I have posted a couple of comments over the last couple of games praising some things he has done. He was solid in part of game one when we were struggling and hit some big shots. He was solid in the first half of this game and actually looked like he was interested in passing the ball. (maybe because KG was out there with him) He has however played 3-4 times the amount of bad minutes over the games he has been here than good ones. It really comes down to this. If he hits a few shots then the Sam supporters rave about him on here. If he misses them then the anti-Sam people rip him.  The point is the guy is one dimensional and as long as he hits those shots then so be it. All I want is a championship.
I will point this one thought out though. Our offense is no where near where it was at the first of the year. We were clicking on all cylinders with the team we had. We moved the ball around the floor and got that extra pass in for the wide open shot because of us pushing the ball up the floor. That applied to both the first and second units. We only do that now though when Rondo is in the game. Sam walks the ball up and we lose 5-6 seconds a possession. This is that time for that extra pass. I am not saying that when he hits the shots we aren't successful. I am just saying that I loved our offense when we would push it up the floor and make 4-5 passes and get Ray a wide open 3, or KG a wide open jumper at the top, or PP would have an open lane to drive in. Sam doesn't give us that option as much.
It is just kind of sad that we messed with things because at stretches there where we had an amazing offense to go with this amazing defense we were unstoppable.

[fan33]

Need I bullet point your continued idioic anti-Sam points, again?

To easy, except for my inadaquate pecking typing skills.

NO TURNOVERS IS PLAYOFF BASKETBALL!!!

ALSO: Even missed shots and we have rebounding advantage!!!

We ARE NOT Playing those teams of mid season caliber, and therefore Rondo IS struggling!!!

And House is no better than Rondo at ball handeling and playmaking and if Rondo is not getting it done it is rediculous to think House is the answer IN THESE PLAYOFFS!!!

Air must be pretty thin up there on your high horse, to think you know better than these coaches as to who should be playing IN THESE PLAYOFFS when Rondo is not getting it done!

[fairweatherfan]

Like I said above, the biggest difference between Sam and Eddie is that Eddie CANNOT create his own shot - it is simply not a skill he possesses against NBA defenders.  Sam obviously can do this, and demonstrates it for good or bad pretty much every game.  When the offense struggles as it did early last night, having a guy with the skill to make his own shot and the confidence to take and hit them in any situation is a huge asset.

I'm a big Eddie supporter, and appreciate what he did all year, but he just doesn't have the skill set that Sam does, and I'm glad Sam has taken over the backup PG role. 

[nickagneta]

in the "i hate sam" threads i never see the sam lovers in those threads defending him...

I've sort given up the fight.  Much like I have with supporting Doc.  It's tough to support someone after they've had a sucky game though (and they both have had some off performance this playoffs). 

I used to throw an occasional douse attempt of "I LOVE DOC" against the flames, but I've given up the fight. 

same here. i do my best to support doc and sam, but no one listens and these people are relentless in their pursuit of blaming people when it's not their fault.

I have been one of the biggest anti-Sam posters on here and still think that House could have performed the role that Sam is since he had been doing it for 60 games before Sam got here. That being said I have posted a couple of comments over the last couple of games praising some things he has done. He was solid in part of game one when we were struggling and hit some big shots. He was solid in the first half of this game and actually looked like he was interested in passing the ball. (maybe because KG was out there with him) He has however played 3-4 times the amount of bad minutes over the games he has been here than good ones. It really comes down to this. If he hits a few shots then the Sam supporters rave about him on here. If he misses them then the anti-Sam people rip him.  The point is the guy is one dimensional and as long as he hits those shots then so be it. All I want is a championship.
I will point this one thought out though. Our offense is no where near where it was at the first of the year. We were clicking on all cylinders with the team we had. We moved the ball around the floor and got that extra pass in for the wide open shot because of us pushing the ball up the floor. That applied to both the first and second units. We only do that now though when Rondo is in the game. Sam walks the ball up and we lose 5-6 seconds a possession. This is that time for that extra pass. I am not saying that when he hits the shots we aren't successful. I am just saying that I loved our offense when we would push it up the floor and make 4-5 passes and get Ray a wide open 3, or KG a wide open jumper at the top, or PP would have an open lane to drive in. Sam doesn't give us that option as much.
It is just kind of sad that we messed with things because at stretches there where we had an amazing offense to go with this amazing defense we were unstoppable.

Just one small point.

This is just not true. Ever since the playoffs have started I watched Sam bring the ball up and he is 95% of the time at the top of the outer circle beginning the offense with 21 seconds left on the 24 second shot clock. Rondo on average is about the same.

Where Rondo gets things going over Sam is during turnovers or when the defense is lagging so Rondo beats them up the floor before they get set. Sam never does that. Even after a turnover Sam is usually in his half jog mode bringing the ball up and setting up the half court set rather than even attempting a fastbreak.

That does drive me insane because he is usually on the floor with Powe, Posey and either Ray or Pierce who are all excellent fastbreak finishers.

You have a lot of other good points especially about the offense being worse than the beginning of the year but I have to believe that part of that is the Eastern Conference style of defense that is played that is hindering the offense. If they were playing out west I think their offense would be flowing a lot better because those teams just don't D up like the Eastern Conference.

[EJPLAYA]

So why is it that House was able to be tremendously successful in the regular season yet you think he isn't able to do the same in the postseason? That makes no sense. How did he get his shot off before that will magically be unavailable now?

I'm definitely of the opinion that Sam has played better the last couple games, or at least a portion of them, but to say that House would not be able to score when he has been a great scorer his whole career...

They typically had TA, Posey, Powe or BBD and House on the floor for the regular season. House would push it up the floor to TA or Posey and then come of screens or park himself at the three point line and hit the open 3. In the postseason they would have either Ray or PP in instead of TA due to the shortened rotation, which is even more attractive to play this way and would result in even better shots for House.

Instead, Sam walks it all the way up and looks for his shot and passes if he doesn't have one. Gibson and Delonte were pressuring the heck out of Sam the first two games and it had the same effect as if it had been done on House. It slowed the offense down and wasted another 3-4 seconds. I think we are making much more of Sam's ability than is really still there. Sure he hit some big shots, but House has done that same thing his whole career too. House just doesn't get killed on D.

If Sam keeps playing at this level, they are probably a wash. I just would have preferred to keep our rotation that wasn't broken...

[fairweatherfan]

So why is it that House was able to be tremendously successful in the regular season yet you think he isn't able to do the same in the postseason? That makes no sense. How did he get his shot off before that will magically be unavailable now?

I'm definitely of the opinion that Sam has played better the last couple games, or at least a portion of them, but to say that House would not be able to score when he has been a great scorer his whole career...

They typically had TA, Posey, Powe or BBD and House on the floor for the regular season. House would push it up the floor to TA or Posey and then come of screens or park himself at the three point line and hit the open 3. In the postseason they would have either Ray or PP in instead of TA due to the shortened rotation, which is even more attractive to play this way and would result in even better shots for House.

<snip>

Eddie needs to be OPEN to hit his shots - as I said the only shots I've seen him create for himself are a pumpfake-single dribble 3 and a pumpfake-single dribble 20 foot jumper.  Open shots are far less frequent during the post season - look at how many Ray Allen has gotten, and he has a much quicker release, is better at coming off screens, and is a threat to drive unlike Eddie.  Similar thing with Posey scoring - he gets almost no open 3s now, most of the (few) shots he takes are over someone, which he can do since he is a taller player with long arms, again, unlike Eddie.  Posey's defense, rebounding, etc make up for this so we don't necessarily need him to score to be effective.  Eddie is above-average in only one area as an NBA player, and that is hitting open shots.  Again, a major difference between regular season and playoffs is that in the playoffs, the open shots dry up because the defense is much more intense and keyed onto specific players' strengths. 

I hate to feel like I'm dumping on Eddie since I've been a fan of his all year, but Sam simply gives us versatility that Eddie does not - the late 1st and early 2nd quarter showed that.  Not to mention championship experience and total confidence regardless of situation (not saying Eddie isn't confident, but Sam is exceptionally so even for an NBA player).