2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[Roy H.]

I have one simple request to ALL here -

Let's keep criticisms about our teams to THIS thread...no need to derail OTHER threads with pompous nonsense in order to puff up your own team.

As the biggest fan of your shaq pick I feel offended. What I meant by Wilt running Shaq to the ground was assuming that he'd have the opportunity to do so. It's not possible to play at a 1960s pace in the modern game-defenses have gotten smarter and more sophisticated to stop cheap fast breaks. I don't feel the need to puff up my own team in other threads-I can't get people to vote for my team by doing it, and it's impolite to others.

FWIW Shaq was #2 on my draft board, iirc a dozen spots above Wilt.

You had Wilt at #14?

[Silky]

I am shocked that multiple of my dream scenario draft choices are still on the board.

Opens up so many options for my team should they continue to drop.

[Somebody]

I have one simple request to ALL here -

Let's keep criticisms about our teams to THIS thread...no need to derail OTHER threads with pompous nonsense in order to puff up your own team.

As the biggest fan of your shaq pick I feel offended. What I meant by Wilt running Shaq to the ground was assuming that he'd have the opportunity to do so. It's not possible to play at a 1960s pace in the modern game-defenses have gotten smarter and more sophisticated to stop cheap fast breaks. I don't feel the need to puff up my own team in other threads-I can't get people to vote for my team by doing it, and it's impolite to others.

FWIW Shaq was #2 on my draft board, iirc a dozen spots above Wilt.

You had Wilt at #14?

I think I did. His "scoring blindness"and tendency to go hunting for "rondo assists" really hurts him imo, the best of the elite offensive players combine both scoring and playmaking instead of only doing one at a given time. His 67 season was the best balance of the two in his career, and it still fell a bit short of the all time offensive juggernauts. His defense was immense-he's in the class of all time anchors behind Russell, but centers like Kareem/Robinson/Hakeem can approximate that defense while being more scalable offensively.

Edit: Hakeem is better at floor raising, he's not more scalable offensively due to his mediocre passing and tendency to park inside to initiate his offense during his peak.

[Celts Fan 508]

Thoughts on the second round of the draft: botched opportunity for me, I was too fixated on getting the best possible player to form my duo than look at possible alternatives that would’ve resulted in a more well-rounded team overall. Teams made good to decent picks overall, and the ones I have issues with are just minor quibbles.

1.   Good pick. Oscar had a “strong MVP” calibre peak that had him spearheading elite offenses on subpar teams, and shows strong evidence that his game is at least slightly portable with his work in Milwaukee (although it’s important to note that his efficiency and scoring volume both dropped off after joining a stacked Milwaukee compared to his Cincinnati days, so while he can scale building a stacked team around him in terms of offensive prowess might result in diminishing marginal returns).

2.   Going to toot my horn a bit here, but imo Kevin Garnett was a great pick. His game is perfect in a modern setting with his video game skillset of elite passing and defense at the PF position, especially in an all-time draft-his only blemish was the lack of a “resilient” offensive game (basically an offensive game that won’t be affected much by changes in the quality of a defense, usually because the offensive game already involves making a lot of tough shots), which can be covered by other all-time greats with the aforementioned offensive games. His high post offense is another plus for his scalability-it spaces the floor enough for isolation heavy players to do their work, or allow for a plodding low post savant to work inside.

3.   Excellent pick. Durant’s scoring is incredibly rare-his combination of volume and efficiency for a wing player is among the greats like Jordan, only with a more modern shot profile. His portability is superb for a top flight scorer-his skillset allows him to still thrive next to ball dominant stars with his spot up shooting, and can propel the offense to greater heights with his isolation game. Only concern is his lack of strong passing skills, which prevents him from reaching all time great level offensively (84-88 Larry Bird comes to mind as a big forward who’s all time great offensively).

4.   Decent pick. This is the pick I regretted making-I was so fixated on getting the best possible player that I missed the fact that there was a very steep drop off at the center position after Russell/Wilt/Kareem/Hakeem/Robinson/Shaq. I’m still happy with Curry-his 2016 season is one of the best offensive performances of all time due to his scorching efficiency from 3 on high volume, and is still a good fit with Garnett.

5.   Iffy on this one, but I woke up feeling better about it. I can understand Yoki’s reasoning-Hondo is one of the most scalable star forwards available-his off ball game is fantastic for any ball dominant superstar who can create at an elite level, and his defense and passing are great additive skills to have on a stacked team. Only concern would be that he didn’t have the highest peak to be the guy that can be a floor raiser next to Kawhi, but I do get that there are still many rounds left in the draft to select a floor raiser (I think a certain playmaker who contrary to public perception had strong MVP impact at the peak of his powers would be perfect for them).

6.   Steal of the second round imo. West was the gold standard for offense in the 60s-he scored 25-32 PPG on very high efficiency for his era, and was an amazing foul drawer (had 11 consecutive seasons with 8 or more FTAs). Add disruptive defense and good passing to the mix, and you have the catalyst to one of the best pre 3 point line offenses ever.

7.   Decent pick. Not much to say about Moses-his amazing finishing and offensive rebounding makes him a good fit with Magic, who can feed him a ton as well as cover up his limitations in passing. Would like to see how Moranis builds his team to fix the defense-or go completely gung ho on offense.

8.   Interesting pick. Dirk’s offense is a great fit with Wilt’s, as his shooting and isolation game will likely space the floor for Wilt (as well as give him a great teammate to pass to, with Dirk’s offense being very resilient at his best). The tactic of fitting Dirk next to an elite rim protector is tried and tested too-the Mavericks had at least average defenses when they paired interior defenders like Diop and another guy who I can’t name because he might get drafted next to him. I do have my reservations about such a frontcourt facing a lengthy and athletic frontline with skill, but their offense should probably be able to power through most frontcourts.

9.   Good pick. Walton’s peak was extraordinary-he left a huge impact footprint in his prime run with Portland, posting one of the best WOWY scores during his run in Portland (http://www.backpicks.com/2016/08/24/i-historical-impact-wowy-score-update/). His passing makes him a great pivot next to Jordan in the triangle as well.

10.   Decent pick on paper, but pretty weird fit wise for Dallas. The Doctor was best at floor raising-his combination of efficient volume scoring but “only” moderate playmaking was most suited for teams that were staunch defensively but lacked offensive talent, as he could raise the offense to league average levels. But with one of the most efficient inside volume scorers ever in Kareem, how will the Doctor get enough touches to avoid diminishing marginal returns? I like the pick on paper, but the fit is a bit iffy.

11.   Another steal in the second round. David was ranked #9 on my draft board, only behind Russell/Shaq/Hakeem/Kareem. He was dominant on both ends of the floor-he was an all-time defender who was strong in both man and team defense (held all-star centers 1.1 PPG and 5% TS below their averages when he was guarding them, and anchored dominant Spurs defenses for years), and had great scoring seasons with high volume and efficiency. His offensive numbers overstate his scoring game a bit as it wasn’t the best against stingier defenses in the playoffs (his face up/garbage man game wasn’t the most resilient offense to get points against tough defense), but it makes him the perfect running mate next to a transcendent usage inhaler who can create and score at an elite level, which happens to be what LeBron James exactly is. Out of all big men in the history of the league, the Admiral is one of the select few that I’d be confident in retaining his superstar value (or even enhancing it ever so slightly) next to LeBron James.

12.   Good pick. Malone doesn’t have the highest peak when compared to all-time greats, but his skillset is surprisingly effective as a floor raiser. He arguably achieved better results than Hakeem with a similar scoring profile (high volume, moderate efficiency) by being able to zip high leverage passes to bridge the gap between Utah’s poor spacing and Houston’s 1 in-4 out offense, churning out offenses almost a point better than Houston’s due to Hakeem’s “only” moderate passing. Him and Bird as options to be the pop man in a PnP is insane, and Bird's off-ball excellence doesn't present the same problem as Kareem and Dr. J.

I just want to point out that when Oscar retired Milwaukee had the rest of its team returning (including Kareem) and healthy and fell from first place to last.  The guy is a winner!  Oscar and Duncan are a great starting point for my team.

[Somebody]

Thoughts on the second round of the draft: botched opportunity for me, I was too fixated on getting the best possible player to form my duo than look at possible alternatives that would’ve resulted in a more well-rounded team overall. Teams made good to decent picks overall, and the ones I have issues with are just minor quibbles.

1.   Good pick. Oscar had a “strong MVP” calibre peak that had him spearheading elite offenses on subpar teams, and shows strong evidence that his game is at least slightly portable with his work in Milwaukee (although it’s important to note that his efficiency and scoring volume both dropped off after joining a stacked Milwaukee compared to his Cincinnati days, so while he can scale building a stacked team around him in terms of offensive prowess might result in diminishing marginal returns).

2.   Going to toot my horn a bit here, but imo Kevin Garnett was a great pick. His game is perfect in a modern setting with his video game skillset of elite passing and defense at the PF position, especially in an all-time draft-his only blemish was the lack of a “resilient” offensive game (basically an offensive game that won’t be affected much by changes in the quality of a defense, usually because the offensive game already involves making a lot of tough shots), which can be covered by other all-time greats with the aforementioned offensive games. His high post offense is another plus for his scalability-it spaces the floor enough for isolation heavy players to do their work, or allow for a plodding low post savant to work inside.

3.   Excellent pick. Durant’s scoring is incredibly rare-his combination of volume and efficiency for a wing player is among the greats like Jordan, only with a more modern shot profile. His portability is superb for a top flight scorer-his skillset allows him to still thrive next to ball dominant stars with his spot up shooting, and can propel the offense to greater heights with his isolation game. Only concern is his lack of strong passing skills, which prevents him from reaching all time great level offensively (84-88 Larry Bird comes to mind as a big forward who’s all time great offensively).

4.   Decent pick. This is the pick I regretted making-I was so fixated on getting the best possible player that I missed the fact that there was a very steep drop off at the center position after Russell/Wilt/Kareem/Hakeem/Robinson/Shaq. I’m still happy with Curry-his 2016 season is one of the best offensive performances of all time due to his scorching efficiency from 3 on high volume, and is still a good fit with Garnett.

5.   Iffy on this one, but I woke up feeling better about it. I can understand Yoki’s reasoning-Hondo is one of the most scalable star forwards available-his off ball game is fantastic for any ball dominant superstar who can create at an elite level, and his defense and passing are great additive skills to have on a stacked team. Only concern would be that he didn’t have the highest peak to be the guy that can be a floor raiser next to Kawhi, but I do get that there are still many rounds left in the draft to select a floor raiser (I think a certain playmaker who contrary to public perception had strong MVP impact at the peak of his powers would be perfect for them).

6.   Steal of the second round imo. West was the gold standard for offense in the 60s-he scored 25-32 PPG on very high efficiency for his era, and was an amazing foul drawer (had 11 consecutive seasons with 8 or more FTAs). Add disruptive defense and good passing to the mix, and you have the catalyst to one of the best pre 3 point line offenses ever.

7.   Decent pick. Not much to say about Moses-his amazing finishing and offensive rebounding makes him a good fit with Magic, who can feed him a ton as well as cover up his limitations in passing. Would like to see how Moranis builds his team to fix the defense-or go completely gung ho on offense.

8.   Interesting pick. Dirk’s offense is a great fit with Wilt’s, as his shooting and isolation game will likely space the floor for Wilt (as well as give him a great teammate to pass to, with Dirk’s offense being very resilient at his best). The tactic of fitting Dirk next to an elite rim protector is tried and tested too-the Mavericks had at least average defenses when they paired interior defenders like Diop and another guy who I can’t name because he might get drafted next to him. I do have my reservations about such a frontcourt facing a lengthy and athletic frontline with skill, but their offense should probably be able to power through most frontcourts.

9.   Good pick. Walton’s peak was extraordinary-he left a huge impact footprint in his prime run with Portland, posting one of the best WOWY scores during his run in Portland (http://www.backpicks.com/2016/08/24/i-historical-impact-wowy-score-update/). His passing makes him a great pivot next to Jordan in the triangle as well.

10.   Decent pick on paper, but pretty weird fit wise for Dallas. The Doctor was best at floor raising-his combination of efficient volume scoring but “only” moderate playmaking was most suited for teams that were staunch defensively but lacked offensive talent, as he could raise the offense to league average levels. But with one of the most efficient inside volume scorers ever in Kareem, how will the Doctor get enough touches to avoid diminishing marginal returns? I like the pick on paper, but the fit is a bit iffy.

11.   Another steal in the second round. David was ranked #9 on my draft board, only behind Russell/Shaq/Hakeem/Kareem. He was dominant on both ends of the floor-he was an all-time defender who was strong in both man and team defense (held all-star centers 1.1 PPG and 5% TS below their averages when he was guarding them, and anchored dominant Spurs defenses for years), and had great scoring seasons with high volume and efficiency. His offensive numbers overstate his scoring game a bit as it wasn’t the best against stingier defenses in the playoffs (his face up/garbage man game wasn’t the most resilient offense to get points against tough defense), but it makes him the perfect running mate next to a transcendent usage inhaler who can create and score at an elite level, which happens to be what LeBron James exactly is. Out of all big men in the history of the league, the Admiral is one of the select few that I’d be confident in retaining his superstar value (or even enhancing it ever so slightly) next to LeBron James.

12.   Good pick. Malone doesn’t have the highest peak when compared to all-time greats, but his skillset is surprisingly effective as a floor raiser. He arguably achieved better results than Hakeem with a similar scoring profile (high volume, moderate efficiency) by being able to zip high leverage passes to bridge the gap between Utah’s poor spacing and Houston’s 1 in-4 out offense, churning out offenses almost a point better than Houston’s due to Hakeem’s “only” moderate passing. Him and Bird as options to be the pop man in a PnP is insane, and Bird's off-ball excellence doesn't present the same problem as Kareem and Dr. J.

I just want to point out that when Oscar retired Milwaukee had the rest of its team returning (including Kareem) and healthy and fell from first place to last.  The guy is a winner!  Oscar and Duncan are a great starting point for my team.

A bit of cherry picking on your end I'm afraid. The Bucks played at a 49 win pace when healthy, they sucked because they didn't have Kareem to go platinum on offense (compared to the "gold standard" of West in the 60s) for 17 games, where they played at a 28 win pace. They also lost Curtis Perry to expansion, and Dandridge (who was their only other player who could create his own offense after Robertson retired) regressed. Oscar was great, but he was more of a floor raiser on mediocre or bad teams/luxury piece on a great team than the main cornerstone of a title winning team. No offense intended, as I said he was one of the few players to have had such a fantastic peak. Interesting fit with Duncan though, two strong isolation scorers who in theory don't scale the best next to other offensive juggernauts, but are some of the greatest players ever as individuals.

[Who]

How do people think Dr J would do in today's NBA?

On the positive side, I believe he'd benefit greatly as a slasher because nobody could put their hands on him. He was so quick when he was younger. He would blow right by people. Quick and strong. His ball-handling would fare better in today's league too making him a high volume driver in today's league. Forcing teams to send a lot of help defenses over.

On the other hand, I worry about his outside shooting. I never liked his outside shot and his midrange was mediocre so I do not believe he could develop an adequate three point jump-shot.

[Who]

On Steph Curry, I thought he was the best antidote to dealing with guys like Shaq and Wilt. Rather than worrying how to defend them. Instead attack them (in PnRs) with outside shooting.

Curry can do that better than anyone else in the draft. That is why I thought Curry was the most effective counter (strategy) to Shaq and Wilt.

[Somebody]

On Steph Curry, I thought he was the best antidote to dealing with guys like Shaq and Wilt. Rather than worrying how to defend them. Instead attack them with outside shooting.

Curry can do that better than anyone else in the draft. That is why I thought Curry was the most effective counter (strategy) to Shaq and Wilt.

Yeah that's a reason why I wasn't too mad about the pick. Just thought that I could've selected a PG who could approximate that while getting a Robinson/Garnett frontcourt. But I already have some ideas to fill in the void at C so all's good

[Somebody]

How do people think Dr J would do in today's NBA?

On the positive side, I believe he'd benefit greatly as a slasher because nobody could put their hands on him. He was so quick when he was younger. He would blow right by people. Quick and strong. His ball-handling would fare better in today's league too making him a high volume driver in today's league. Forcing teams to send a lot of help defenses over.

On the other hand, I worry about his outside shooting. I never liked his outside shot and his midrange was mediocre so I do not believe he could develop an adequate three point jump-shot.

He'd probably be what he was back then: a great floor raiser for teams that are strong defensively but poor offensively, diminishing marginal returns for good offensive teams. Don't see him being anything better than that unless he develops a reliable spot up three, or improves on his creation skills for teammates.

[Moranis]

How do people think Dr J would do in today's NBA?

On the positive side, I believe he'd benefit greatly as a slasher because nobody could put their hands on him. He was so quick when he was younger. He would blow right by people. Quick and strong. His ball-handling would fare better in today's league too making him a high volume driver in today's league. Forcing teams to send a lot of help defenses over.

On the other hand, I worry about his outside shooting. I never liked his outside shot and his midrange was mediocre so I do not believe he could develop an adequate three point jump-shot.

I think Dr. J would transition well.  He was a solid FT and in the ABA showed an ability to hit 3 point shots at least 33% of the time.  I think he would certainly be able to improve upon that in the modern era.  He wouldn't be super elite at shooting, but would be good enough to keep defenses honest allowing him to utilize his incredible driving and athleticism. 

[Silky]

The only man to win mvp, finals mvp, sporting news mvp and defensive player of the year the same year.

The only man to essentially sibgle handedly win a championship.

A visionary offensivly
A freak athlete
A juggernaught defensively.



Paired with a man who is 3rd all time on the scoring list. A man who in 10.3% of all his games played(140 games) has scored 40+. 6 games of 60+
 4 straight games of 50+  9 straight games of 40+

11 career 4th quarters of 20+ points.
62 career go ahead shots in the last minute of regular time and overtime.

9 allnba defensive first teams. Won 3 titles playing off a scoring center.

Yeah.

I like my duo.

[nickagneta]

So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago - love the the synergy with Duncan and the Big O

Philadelphia - Larry with a better PF than he had on maybe the greatest team ever, the '86 Celtics

Portland - Magic feeding a beast down low in Moses

Golden State - best defender and rebounder ever in Russell with a unicorn like KD, wow

Teams I Respect
Boston - Robinson would be the best player ever to play alongside LeBron. Scary duo.

Atlanta - Maybe the best frontcourt offensive pairing in the game in Wilt and Dirk. Oh and they are both really tall.

Miami - strong Laker vibe here but Shaq and the Logo are a tremendous pairing, dominant inside and out.

Dallas - Awesome offensive duo with two unstoppable moves, Kareem's shy hook and Dr J driving and going high for the jam.

San Antonio - Great individual guys who, if given the right glue guy could meld Kobe and Hakeem into something special.

Utah - the GOAT with Walton in his prime. This might be the highest BBIQ team in the game with talent to back it up.

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit - the picture is incomplete but the perimeter defense with Kawhi and Hondo will be best in game, possibly.

Los Angeles - given this team started in the 2nd round this is actually a pretty great start.

With LA and Detroit I just think they will eventually need to become a collection with outstanding chemistry to overcome not having a top 15 player or so all time on their teams.

[Somebody]

So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago
Philadelphia
Portland
Golden State

Teams I Respect
Boston
Atlanta
Miami
Dallas
San Antonio
Utah

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit
LosAngeles

Interesting to see that you think my team has potential, what do you think it's lacking?

[nickagneta]

So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago
Philadelphia
Portland
Golden State

Teams I Respect
Boston
Atlanta
Miami
Dallas
San Antonio
Utah

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit
LosAngeles

Interesting to see that you think my team has potential, what do you think it's lacking?

I went in and added blurbs. See above.

[Somebody]

So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago
Philadelphia
Portland
Golden State

Teams I Respect
Boston
Atlanta
Miami
Dallas
San Antonio
Utah

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit
LosAngeles

Interesting to see that you think my team has potential, what do you think it's lacking?

I went in and added blurbs. See above.

Appreciate it!