Author Topic: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?  (Read 21644 times)

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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #90 on: March 14, 2017, 11:52:17 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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I don't think KO outplayed his draft slot at all.  I think he goes around 15 in a re-draft, a couple of slots behind where he actually went.  He would go ahead of plenty of players taken in front of him, but there are a lot of guys that went after him that would go ahead of him in a redraft (including someone like Covington that wasn't even drafted).

Would you mind posting the 14 or so players you have ahead of him from the 2013 draft? I can see like 7 that definitely go ahead of him, but I don't even see enough guys that have an argument for going ahead of Kelly in a redraft to put him at 15
I have Olynyk at around 10-12. Bigs are more of a commodity than dime a dozen guards. And yes its Moranis, so his opinion doesnt count.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #91 on: March 14, 2017, 12:01:21 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I don't think KO outplayed his draft slot at all.  I think he goes around 15 in a re-draft, a couple of slots behind where he actually went.  He would go ahead of plenty of players taken in front of him, but there are a lot of guys that went after him that would go ahead of him in a redraft (including someone like Covington that wasn't even drafted).

Would you mind posting the 14 or so players you have ahead of him from the 2013 draft? I can see like 7 that definitely go ahead of him, but I don't even see enough guys that have an argument for going ahead of Kelly in a redraft to put him at 15

I had to look at this again. It seems like a no brainer he passed Bennett, Len, Mclemore, MCW and probably Trey Burke.

I think most would prefer him over Zeller. So that is 6 out of the 13 people in front of him.

What 6 people clearly pass him?

1) Greek Freak
2) Schroder (probably)
3) Mason Plumlee (not a 100% would depend on team need probably)
4) Gobert


Then there are a few maybe depending on team need (Hardaway Jr., Dieng)
Maybe goes a smidge higher, but not a crazy amount.


Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #92 on: March 14, 2017, 12:06:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't think KO outplayed his draft slot at all.  I think he goes around 15 in a re-draft, a couple of slots behind where he actually went.  He would go ahead of plenty of players taken in front of him, but there are a lot of guys that went after him that would go ahead of him in a redraft (including someone like Covington that wasn't even drafted).

Would you mind posting the 14 or so players you have ahead of him from the 2013 draft? I can see like 7 that definitely go ahead of him, but I don't even see enough guys that have an argument for going ahead of Kelly in a redraft to put him at 15
They are in order by original draft pick selection.

Almost every team would select ahead of Olynyk (11 players)
Oladipo
Porter
Noel
Caldwell-Pope
McCollum
Adams
Antetokounmpo
Schroder
Dieng
Plumlee
Gobert

Some teams might select ahead of Olynyk (10 players)
Zeller
Len
McLemore
Muhammad
Roberson
Crabbe
Covington
Curry
Dedmon
Dellavedova

Then you have these guys who while wouldn't go ahead of Olynyk right now, but have either outplayed him at various times (MCW) or are trending in a more positive direction than KO is (the other 3)
Carter-Williams
Snell
Hill
Hardaway


Some of those guys you could argue belong in a different category, but 15 seems about right.  Olynyk is a very good outside shooter, but he does almost nothing else well and even his shooting is much worse than last year.  His first three years, he never played more than 70 games (though is on pace for better than that this year), so he isn't exactly a picture of health.  Additionally, per minute he is scoring less than any other season this year, though he is rebounding a bit better (but still terrible for a 7 footer).  KO is best suited as the 2nd big off the bench/need a shooter role and doesn't have much to offer other than shooting.  That shooting pedigree will give him a nice long NBA career, but he isn't anything more than a role player and will never be more than that.  He is also basically the same player now as he was a rookie, which isn't all that surprising since he was an older rookie.

EDIT: I forgot that Curry and Dedmon were undrafted in this draft and added them.  Also, slightly adjusted a tier.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 12:44:49 PM by Moranis »
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Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #93 on: March 14, 2017, 12:16:41 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I don't think KO outplayed his draft slot at all.  I think he goes around 15 in a re-draft, a couple of slots behind where he actually went.  He would go ahead of plenty of players taken in front of him, but there are a lot of guys that went after him that would go ahead of him in a redraft (including someone like Covington that wasn't even drafted).

Would you mind posting the 14 or so players you have ahead of him from the 2013 draft? I can see like 7 that definitely go ahead of him, but I don't even see enough guys that have an argument for going ahead of Kelly in a redraft to put him at 15

I had to look at this again. It seems like a no brainer he passed Bennett, Len, Mclemore, MCW and probably Trey Burke.

I think most would prefer him over Zeller. So that is 6 out of the 13 people in front of him.

What 6 people clearly pass him?

1) Greek Freak
2) Schroder (probably)
3) Mason Plumlee (not a 100% would depend on team need probably)
4) Gobert


Then there are a few maybe depending on team need (Hardaway Jr., Dieng)
Maybe goes a smidge higher, but not a crazy amount.

I put Oladipo, Porter, McCollum, Adams, Giannis, and Gobert as definitely ahead of him (so that's 6 so far).  There are strong arguments to be made for Noel, Schroder, and Plumlee, so that's another 3.  But that still leaves another 5 players to put Kelly at 15, and I don't see where they would come from (and, for the record, I don't think I'd put Plumlee ahead of Kelly, but it seems like Denver probably would).  I guess you could argue Dieng (although I would disagree) or Crabbe (ditto) or KCP, but that still leaves 2 slots to fill, and at that point your best arguments are people like Covington, Isaiah Canaan, or Seth Curry, none of which I would put in even the same tier as Kelly (although Curry has played very well of late)

So I guess you can make the argument if you heavily underrate Kelly and overrate guys with minor roles on lottery teams
I'm bitter.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #94 on: March 14, 2017, 12:42:41 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Here is hoopshype's redraft from March 7 of this year. 

http://hoopshype.com/2017/03/07/2013-nba-re-draft-the-way-it-should-have-been/#slideIdslide-13

Olynyk is 14th. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #95 on: March 14, 2017, 12:54:58 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I don't think KO outplayed his draft slot at all.  I think he goes around 15 in a re-draft, a couple of slots behind where he actually went.  He would go ahead of plenty of players taken in front of him, but there are a lot of guys that went after him that would go ahead of him in a redraft (including someone like Covington that wasn't even drafted).

Would you mind posting the 14 or so players you have ahead of him from the 2013 draft? I can see like 7 that definitely go ahead of him, but I don't even see enough guys that have an argument for going ahead of Kelly in a redraft to put him at 15
They are in order by original draft pick selection.

Almost every team would select ahead of Olynyk (12 players)
Oladipo
Porter
Noel
Caldwell-Pope
McCollum
Adams
Antetokounmpo
Schroder
Dieng
Plumlee
Gobert
Covington

Some teams might select ahead of Olynyk (7 players)
Zeller
Len
McLemore
Muhammad
Roberson
Crabbe
Dellavedova

Then you have these guys who while wouldn't go ahead of Olynyk right now, but have either outplayed him at various times (MCW) or are trending in a more positive direction than KO is (the other 3)
Carter-Williams
Snell
Hill
Hardaway


Some of those guys you could argue belong in a different category, but 15 seems about right.  Olynyk is a very good outside shooter, but he does almost nothing else well and even his shooting is much worse than last year.  His first three years, he never played more than 70 games (though is on pace for better than that this year), so he isn't exactly a picture of health.  Additionally, per minute he is scoring less than any other season this year, though he is rebounding a bit better (but still terrible for a 7 footer). KO is best suited as the 2nd big off the bench/need a shooter role and doesn't have much to offer other than shooting.  That shooting pedigree will give him a nice long NBA career, but he isn't anything more than a role player and will never be more than that.  He is also basically the same player now as he was a rookie, which isn't all that surprising since he was an older rookie.
I feel like you are really underrating KO here. Why can he not be the first big off the bench? He shoots 50% from the field, 36% from the field and averages 9 and 5 in just and 2 assists in only 21 minutes. If you put him on some of these other teams and pumped his minutes up a bit they would look even better.

Some of the names you have on this list are pretty debatable. For example, Dieng averages 10 and 7 but he is also given 30 minutes a game in Minnesota's endless rebuild. Why would you say he is clearly better than KO? Also why is Plumlee clearly better? I think he has put up some nice numbers at times but he is already on his 3rd team and he may end up just being a first bench off the big like KO.

As far as your list of players that maybe would go in front of him. Some of these are downright comical. Mclemore? The Kings are letting him walk and he is considered a fringe NBA player. He was routinely racking up DNP CD on a horrible Sacramento team for a lot of the season and his numbers have declined the last 3 years. He does nothing besides shoot, and he hasn't been lights out at that even 41% overall and 35% from 3. The idea that any team would take him in the first round at all at this point is debatable.

Then you got Len? A guy that was also racking up DNPCD for the Suns this year and is now losing minutes to Alan Williams?

I can't really think many teams or anyone would prefer Snell or Delladova. Delladova parlayed a nice couple of games in the playoffs but seems like at best a backup point guard (he lost the starting job to a pretty meh rookie already). Muhammad has had the chance to prove he is a legit rotation player with Lavine, but has not lived up to the task.


I am not even as high on Kelly as some others, but think on a lot of these worse teams he would get a few more minutes and his stats would look a lot better. Some of the guys being compared to him (mclemore and Len) have not even proven they will stay in the league.


 


Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2017, 12:57:05 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Here is hoopshype's redraft from March 7 of this year. 

http://hoopshype.com/2017/03/07/2013-nba-re-draft-the-way-it-should-have-been/#slideIdslide-13

Olynyk is 14th.

Not a bad list.  I'd have Oladipo much lower and Noguira much higher.  Danny gets a B- in hindsight.  Lots of GM's missed a lot of good players in this draft.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2017, 01:15:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I feel like you are really underrating KO here. Why can he not be the first big off the bench? He shoots 50% from the field, 36% from the field and averages 9 and 5 in just and 2 assists in only 21 minutes. If you put him on some of these other teams and pumped his minutes up a bit they would look even better.
  The thing is, Olynyk has plenty of opportunity for increased minutes and has his entire career, yet he doesn't get them.  There is an obvious reason for that, in that Olynyk is who he is, which is a quality bench player and nothing more.  He is basically the same player now as he was as a rookie.  You know exactly what he is going to give you night in and night out, but he isn't going to give you more than that. 

Some of the names you have on this list are pretty debatable. For example, Dieng averages 10 and 7 but he is also given 30 minutes a game in Minnesota's endless rebuild. Why would you say he is clearly better than KO? Also why is Plumlee clearly better? I think he has put up some nice numbers at times but he is already on his 3rd team and he may end up just being a first bench off the big like KO.
Dieng has shown a more varied overall game, is a better defender and rebounder, etc.  He isn't much better than Olynyk, I just think he provides a bit more overall than Olynyk. Plumlee is a much better overall player than Olynyk.  Significantly better rebounder and passer.  Not an outside shooter at all, but Plumlee is pretty clearly a better overall player. 

As far as your list of players that maybe would go in front of him. Some of these are downright comical. Mclemore? The Kings are letting him walk and he is considered a fringe NBA player. He was routinely racking up DNP CD on a horrible Sacramento team for a lot of the season and his numbers have declined the last 3 years. He does nothing besides shoot, and he hasn't been lights out at that even 41% overall and 35% from 3. The idea that any team would take him in the first round at all at this point is debatable.
McLemore is an odd case, I think most teams would select Olynyk, but there is something about McLemore that is appealing (he just scored 14 points in Sacto's last game and over his last 16 games is averaging over 11 a games (he has started 11 of those 16 games as well), and on the season he is shooting nearly 40% from three in just under 3 shots a game).  I have no idea what is going on in Sacto, that team is a trainwreck.

Then you got Len? A guy that was also racking up DNPCD for the Suns this year and is now losing minutes to Alan Williams?
Len has started the last 8 games for the Suns.  His per 36 this year are 13.7/11.6.  He is two full years younger than Olynyk and has shown a natural progression.  Again, depending on team need, a team could absolutely decide to take the interior player over the spot up shooter. 

I can't really think many teams or anyone would prefer Snell or Delladova. Delladova parlayed a nice couple of games in the playoffs but seems like at best a backup point guard (he lost the starting job to a pretty meh rookie already). Muhammad has had the chance to prove he is a legit rotation player with Lavine, but has not lived up to the task.
Dellavedova in March has played just under 27 mpg is averaging 11.6/3.8/1.6 and shooting 50% from three on 3.5 attempts a game.  He has started 49 games including the last 3.  He is a better career shooter than Olynyk and is a better defender.  Not hard to see a team taking the player that does the one thing Olynyk does well better than Olynyk.  Snell was in the bottom category i.e. a guy that is trending in the positive direction, not a guy that would go ahead of Olynyk now.  Not sure why you even mentioned him.  Muhammad is similar to McLemore.  Does some thing really well and shows these flashes of greatness, and other times looks totally lost. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #98 on: March 14, 2017, 01:22:32 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Here is hoopshype's redraft from March 7 of this year. 

http://hoopshype.com/2017/03/07/2013-nba-re-draft-the-way-it-should-have-been/#slideIdslide-13

Olynyk is 14th.

Not a bad list.  I'd have Oladipo much lower and Noguira much higher.  Danny gets a B- in hindsight.  Lots of GM's missed a lot of good players in this draft.

KO is 10th by win Shares, 11th by WS48, 8th by BPM and 9th by VORP. Yes they're metrics, but they all tell pretty much the same story. Slotting KO in the 10-15 range seems about right. A straight "par" by Danny on that one, I think, and in a draft where reading talent was far more difficult than usual.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html



Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #99 on: March 14, 2017, 01:22:35 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Mclemore and Zeller? are you kidding?

Edit: thought you were talking about our Zeller
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Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #100 on: March 14, 2017, 01:39:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Here is hoopshype's redraft from March 7 of this year. 

http://hoopshype.com/2017/03/07/2013-nba-re-draft-the-way-it-should-have-been/#slideIdslide-13

Olynyk is 14th.

Not a bad list.  I'd have Oladipo much lower and Noguira much higher.  Danny gets a B- in hindsight.  Lots of GM's missed a lot of good players in this draft.

KO is 10th by win Shares, 11th by WS48, 8th by BPM and 9th by VORP. Yes they're metrics, but they all tell pretty much the same story. Slotting KO in the 10-15 range seems about right. A straight "par" by Danny on that one, I think, and in a draft where reading talent was far more difficult than usual.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html
I hate using win shares because they are based on a team's actual wins and thus it is very difficult to compare players on vastly different team situations.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #101 on: March 14, 2017, 01:58:28 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I feel like you are really underrating KO here. Why can he not be the first big off the bench? He shoots 50% from the field, 36% from the field and averages 9 and 5 in just and 2 assists in only 21 minutes. If you put him on some of these other teams and pumped his minutes up a bit they would look even better.
  The thing is, Olynyk has plenty of opportunity for increased minutes and has his entire career, yet he doesn't get them.  There is an obvious reason for that, in that Olynyk is who he is, which is a quality bench player and nothing more.  He is basically the same player now as he was as a rookie.  You know exactly what he is going to give you night in and night out, but he isn't going to give you more than that. 

Some of the names you have on this list are pretty debatable. For example, Dieng averages 10 and 7 but he is also given 30 minutes a game in Minnesota's endless rebuild. Why would you say he is clearly better than KO? Also why is Plumlee clearly better? I think he has put up some nice numbers at times but he is already on his 3rd team and he may end up just being a first bench off the big like KO.
Dieng has shown a more varied overall game, is a better defender and rebounder, etc.  He isn't much better than Olynyk, I just think he provides a bit more overall than Olynyk. Plumlee is a much better overall player than Olynyk.  Significantly better rebounder and passer.  Not an outside shooter at all, but Plumlee is pretty clearly a better overall player. 

As far as your list of players that maybe would go in front of him. Some of these are downright comical. Mclemore? The Kings are letting him walk and he is considered a fringe NBA player. He was routinely racking up DNP CD on a horrible Sacramento team for a lot of the season and his numbers have declined the last 3 years. He does nothing besides shoot, and he hasn't been lights out at that even 41% overall and 35% from 3. The idea that any team would take him in the first round at all at this point is debatable.
McLemore is an odd case, I think most teams would select Olynyk, but there is something about McLemore that is appealing (he just scored 14 points in Sacto's last game and over his last 16 games is averaging over 11 a games (he has started 11 of those 16 games as well), and on the season he is shooting nearly 40% from three in just under 3 shots a game).  I have no idea what is going on in Sacto, that team is a trainwreck.

Then you got Len? A guy that was also racking up DNPCD for the Suns this year and is now losing minutes to Alan Williams?
Len has started the last 8 games for the Suns.  His per 36 this year are 13.7/11.6.  He is two full years younger than Olynyk and has shown a natural progression.  Again, depending on team need, a team could absolutely decide to take the interior player over the spot up shooter. 

I can't really think many teams or anyone would prefer Snell or Delladova. Delladova parlayed a nice couple of games in the playoffs but seems like at best a backup point guard (he lost the starting job to a pretty meh rookie already). Muhammad has had the chance to prove he is a legit rotation player with Lavine, but has not lived up to the task.
Dellavedova in March has played just under 27 mpg is averaging 11.6/3.8/1.6 and shooting 50% from three on 3.5 attempts a game.  He has started 49 games including the last 3.  He is a better career shooter than Olynyk and is a better defender.  Not hard to see a team taking the player that does the one thing Olynyk does well better than Olynyk.  Snell was in the bottom category i.e. a guy that is trending in the positive direction, not a guy that would go ahead of Olynyk now.  Not sure why you even mentioned him.  Muhammad is similar to McLemore.  Does some thing really well and shows these flashes of greatness, and other times looks totally lost.

Why use per 36 numbers for Len. He has never been able to stay on the court for 30 minutes a game his entire career. His averaging 3 fouls in 19 minutes is part of that. I feel like you are not understanding a pretty basic premise of tanking when you are start pointing out the stats and minutes for Mclemore and Len. They are playing more minutes because they are bad players and their teams are actively trying to lose games to improve their draft pick.... this is the opposite of what we do with KO. Just bizarre to lump these two guys for a comparison to KO and seems to suggest a lack of basic understanding of the NBA and player values.

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #102 on: March 14, 2017, 02:23:09 PM »

Offline Moranis

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KO has never played more than 22.2 mpg and is at just 21.1 right now (he is also at 2.7 fouls in those 21.1 minutes, so only slightly less foul prone than Len).  His career average is 20.9.  Len's career average is 19.6 and his career high is 23.6.  In other words, both Len and Olynyk have played pretty similar minutes in their careers.

This year Len's stats are 7.5/6.4 with 1.2 blocks, while Olynyk is at 8.9/4.8 with 2.0 assists (I used points and rebounds and then the next best stat for each).  Len plays in 1.4 less minutes per game (so not much difference).  Len is slightly better from the line, but Olynyk is significantly better from the field.  So you have one guy that is the better rebounder and defender and one guy that is the better offensive player (who is also 2 years older).  Depending on team need it is very easy to see a team wanting Len over Olynyk and vice versa. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #103 on: March 14, 2017, 03:05:22 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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KO has never played more than 22.2 mpg and is at just 21.1 right now (he is also at 2.7 fouls in those 21.1 minutes, so only slightly less foul prone than Len).  His career average is 20.9.  Len's career average is 19.6 and his career high is 23.6.  In other words, both Len and Olynyk have played pretty similar minutes in their careers.

This year Len's stats are 7.5/6.4 with 1.2 blocks, while Olynyk is at 8.9/4.8 with 2.0 assists (I used points and rebounds and then the next best stat for each).  Len plays in 1.4 less minutes per game (so not much difference).  Len is slightly better from the line, but Olynyk is significantly better from the field.  So you have one guy that is the better rebounder and defender and one guy that is the better offensive player (who is also 2 years older).  Depending on team need it is very easy to see a team wanting Len over Olynyk and vice versa.

I guess I would argue if you have two players putting up similar stats and one is doing so for a 50 win team and one is doing it for a 24 win team that is a pretty significant difference.  You also have to realize that the Suns really have not seemed to express a lot of confidence in Len bringing in Chandler over him and now still not giving him major minutes during their youth movement.

Also what is your basis that Len is a better defender? Have you watched Len play very much? He really looks like a stiff on the times I have seen him this season and last. Kind of painfully slow and very plodding on offense. I think KO, as most have mentioned, would go about 12-15th in a redraft where Len may be an end of first round flyer. They are just not comparable assets/players at this point and Len has been given numerous opportunities to succeed.


Re: So When Is It Time to Revisit the Smart / Randle Thing?
« Reply #104 on: March 14, 2017, 03:36:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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KO has never played more than 22.2 mpg and is at just 21.1 right now (he is also at 2.7 fouls in those 21.1 minutes, so only slightly less foul prone than Len).  His career average is 20.9.  Len's career average is 19.6 and his career high is 23.6.  In other words, both Len and Olynyk have played pretty similar minutes in their careers.

This year Len's stats are 7.5/6.4 with 1.2 blocks, while Olynyk is at 8.9/4.8 with 2.0 assists (I used points and rebounds and then the next best stat for each).  Len plays in 1.4 less minutes per game (so not much difference).  Len is slightly better from the line, but Olynyk is significantly better from the field.  So you have one guy that is the better rebounder and defender and one guy that is the better offensive player (who is also 2 years older).  Depending on team need it is very easy to see a team wanting Len over Olynyk and vice versa.

I guess I would argue if you have two players putting up similar stats and one is doing so for a 50 win team and one is doing it for a 24 win team that is a pretty significant difference.  You also have to realize that the Suns really have not seemed to express a lot of confidence in Len bringing in Chandler over him and now still not giving him major minutes during their youth movement.

Also what is your basis that Len is a better defender? Have you watched Len play very much? He really looks like a stiff on the times I have seen him this season and last. Kind of painfully slow and very plodding on offense. I think KO, as most have mentioned, would go about 12-15th in a redraft where Len may be an end of first round flyer. They are just not comparable assets/players at this point and Len has been given numerous opportunities to succeed.
so has KO and KO is basically the same player he was as a rookie.  Len produces as well as Olynyk does in similar minutes.  They are very similar players.  Yes Boston has a better record than Phoenix, but it isn't because of Olynyk.  I mean Olynyk has less starts than Jerekbo this year.  KO just hasn't stepped up because he can't.  That is why he still lets Jerekbo, Zeller, and even occasionally Mickey take minutes from him.  At this point, Olynyk is what he is always going to be, which is a 2nd big off the bench type player.  There is a role for that and he is an excellent shooter so he will be in the league a long time because of that, but that is what he is.  That is also basically Len (minus the shooting).  Len seems likely to be nothing more than a quality big on the bench type player.  A guy who will bang on the boards, block some shots, and who generally won't hurt the team.  Depending on team need, I could easily see Len go ahead of Olynyk in a redraft (especially with age factored in), though I do think most teams would prefer the shooter.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip