Is Smart/KP trade good….

[Silas]

Does anyone else think there might have been two trades set up? The Brogdon for Zinger trade and the Smart to Memphis. If the first trade with Brogdon goes through do we end up with the picks and Tyus Jones for Smart?  I really like Tyus Jones.

I think so. Just based on one of the interviews I heard Brad do it sounds like he had made a decision to move on from Smart, provided the right deal presented itself. And the main reason was the new collective bargaining agreement.

I wonder if we can still trade for Tyus Jones? Grant for Jones works with some picks thrown the Wiz's way.

I think I would rather keep Grant with his bulk and 3pt shooting and look for JD to make the jump and be backup to White and Brogdon.  Grant's contract demand may make that desire moot.

edit....forgot we still have Payton, maybe.

[liam]

Does anyone else think there might have been two trades set up? The Brogdon for Zinger trade and the Smart to Memphis. If the first trade with Brogdon goes through do we end up with the picks and Tyus Jones for Smart?  I really like Tyus Jones.

I think so. Just based on one of the interviews I heard Brad do it sounds like he had made a decision to move on from Smart, provided the right deal presented itself. And the main reason was the new collective bargaining agreement.

I wonder if we can still trade for Tyus Jones? Grant for Jones works with some picks thrown the Wiz's way.

I think I would rather keep Grant with his bulk and 3pt shooting and look for JD to make the jump and be backup to White and Brogdon.  Grant's contract demand may make that desire moot.

edit....forgot we still have Payton, maybe.

I like Grant but Tyus Jones is really good. It would be a talent upgrade.

[Silas]

Does anyone else think there might have been two trades set up? The Brogdon for Zinger trade and the Smart to Memphis. If the first trade with Brogdon goes through do we end up with the picks and Tyus Jones for Smart?  I really like Tyus Jones.

I think so. Just based on one of the interviews I heard Brad do it sounds like he had made a decision to move on from Smart, provided the right deal presented itself. And the main reason was the new collective bargaining agreement.

I wonder if we can still trade for Tyus Jones? Grant for Jones works with some picks thrown the Wiz's way.

I think I would rather keep Grant with his bulk and 3pt shooting and look for JD to make the jump and be backup to White and Brogdon.  Grant's contract demand may make that desire moot.

edit....forgot we still have Payton, maybe.

I like Grant but Tyus Jones is really good. It would be a talent upgrade.

You might be right.  I really don't know anything about Jones.

[Who]

Yes. Good even if just for a season since he basically cost nothing and the team got 2 1st's for Smart.  Great cap management and a much better shot at a title this year as the roster makes more sense now.  I'd still like to see 1 more move to pick up an actual PG and another wing, but team is in much better shape

Maybe something like this Brogdon, Pritchard for Okoro, Osman, Rubio

White, Brown, Tatum, Zinger, Rob
Rubio, Okoro, Osman,  Hauser, Grant, Al
Kornet, Davison, Champagnie, Walsh

Cavs need a spark on their bench and Brogdon could give them that, though doesn't solve their no SF problem.

Rubio is rubbish these days. Soon to be 33 years old, 67 games combined over the last two seasons, and perhaps the worst scoring efficiency in the NBA. He is so much worse than Brogdon it’s not funny. I would argue worse than PP too

Sure he us worse than Brogdon, but I like Okoro a lot.  Tough defensive SF. Can't score, but Boston doesn't need scoring from that spot.  Osman is a fine 3rd SF as well.  Rubio is a very creative playmaker.  The trade for me is about getting certain skill sets on the bench. Skill sets the team doesn't have, but could use.  Now I can see an argument that Brogdon's shooting is important on the bench, but I'm hoping that Grant has a bounce back shooting, Hauser keeps improving, and moving Al to the bench evens out the shooting.  So I'd take the risk to get a playmaker and defensive wing.

Is Okoro any better than Jordan Walsh?

Two athletic SFs who are high end defenders with very limited offensive games.

I am not convinced Okoro is any better than Walsh. Okoro was a liability for CLE in the playoffs because he couldn't be counted on to hit shots / space the floor / contribute offensively. The starting SF position was a liability for CLE all season long. He couldn't fill that hole. He is a bench SF and not a particularly good bench SF due to his bad offensive game. His defensive is very impressive but the rest of his game is not.

J Walsh can give us the same thing without costing us Brogdon.


Not sold on Rubio either. He is coming off a terrible year. Another guy who was a liability for CLE. An even worse liability than Okoro. Rubio wasn't even playable last year. They kept hoping he'd recover from his injury and he never did. Maybe he does next year. Maybe he doesn't. The bad shooting is one thing (in terms of bounce back next year) but even more concerned with his lack of dribble penetration post injury. Is that permanent athletic decline?

In no way can Rubio be counted on to be a main backup PG on a contender after the season he just had. He is a 3rd stringer until he proves he bounce back (and I am not sure he will bounce back). Depending on him for anything more than that is a huge risk that is likely to bite whoever does it on their backside.

Brogdon has some injury risk associated with him but nowhere near the risk that Rubio has right now. Not after the season he just had. Not after how limited he looked physically after that most recent injury. Rubio much more of a question mark moving forward than Brogdon is.

[Who]

Yes. Good even if just for a season since he basically cost nothing and the team got 2 1st's for Smart.  Great cap management and a much better shot at a title this year as the roster makes more sense now.  I'd still like to see 1 more move to pick up an actual PG and another wing, but team is in much better shape

Maybe something like this Brogdon, Pritchard for Okoro, Osman, Rubio

White, Brown, Tatum, Zinger, Rob
Rubio, Okoro, Osman,  Hauser, Grant, Al
Kornet, Davison, Champagnie, Walsh

Cavs need a spark on their bench and Brogdon could give them that, though doesn't solve their no SF problem.

Rubio is rubbish these days. Soon to be 33 years old, 67 games combined over the last two seasons, and perhaps the worst scoring efficiency in the NBA. He is so much worse than Brogdon it’s not funny. I would argue worse than PP too

I agree. Pritchard > Rubio

[Muzzy66]

I love the trade. 

Seeing Smart go is definitely sad from an emotional perspective, but when I step back and look at the situation objectively I think the backcourt might actually be better without Smarts volatility and with the added stability of Brogdon and White.  Now add in Porzingis (who gives is te thirdreliable scorer to take pressure off the Jays AND gives us added redundancy up front) and I think its a no brainer. 

The only stress point for me is KP's health - but even then I'd rather have three play-limted bigs then two.  At least it gives us some redundancy so when one of those guys gets hurt the drop off isnt nearly as big.

[timpiker]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

[liam]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

Ainge was clearly the best player in that trade. KP is clearly the best player in this trade. I think Smart is the 3rd best player in this trade. I think Jones is a better player than Smart.

[Kuberski33]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

That really was a lousy trade. Klein stunk and Pinkney was meh. That to me is the encouraging thing about this trade - we got the best player.  Of course he needs to stay healthy...and ideally commit to being here long term.

[SparzWizard]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

That really was a lousy trade. Klein stunk and Pinkney was meh. That to me is the encouraging thing about this trade - we got the best player.  Of course he needs to stay healthy...and ideally commit to being here long term.

If the C's win it all this season, then he will commit long term. He needs a taste of what being in the ECF and NBA Finals are like!

[footey]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

Ainge was clearly the best player in that trade. KP is clearly the best player in this trade. I think Smart is the 3rd best player in this trade. I think Jones is a better player than Smart.

Clearly Grizzlies management doesn't agree with you, they value Smart 2 first round draft picks more valuable than Jones in the trade.

[Who]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

Ainge was clearly the best player in that trade. KP is clearly the best player in this trade. I think Smart is the 3rd best player in this trade. I think Jones is a better player than Smart.

Clearly Grizzlies management doesn't agree with you, they value Smart 2 first round draft picks more valuable than Jones in the trade.

Yeah, I prefer Smart over Tyus Jones myself. I view Tyus Jones as similar to Monte Morris. A very efficient backup guard who is good in a moderate role. An adequate starter if required. I consider T Jones a bit better than M Morris but not by a huge amount. T Jones would still be a below average starter.

I rate Smart as a middle of the pack starting PG. Good upgrade over T Jones. Not enough of an upgrade to justify giving up 2 first round picks for + not a good fit next to Morant because they need to surround Morant with shooters ... but still better than T Jones.

[vjcsmoke]

Secondly, conflating something means to merge information, and it’s not defined as a negative, so perhaps you’re using the wrong terminology.

Let's be specific.  When you bring in Draymond Green to defend your assertion that Wendel Carter Jr. is a better talent and trade option than Porzingis that's called conflating the issue.  Because nobody has ever brought up Draymond Green as a realistic trade target instead of Porzingis.  CONFLATION in this case is bringing up a red herring that has nothing to do with the current discussion.  You are welcome to your opinion that Wendell Carter Jr. is a better player than Porzingis.  I still DISAGREE.

[vjcsmoke]

I agree. Pritchard > Rubio

I still have my doubts that Pritchard will ever be anything more than a backup quality PG.

I believe that the rise of Derrick White is what made Brad open to moving Smart in the Porizingis deal.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what White can do in a lead guard role for the Celtics this upcoming season.

[gouki88]

On paper?  Ask me in 3 years.  Its right up there with Ainge for Pinkney and Klein in my book.  Still hate it.

Ainge was clearly the best player in that trade. KP is clearly the best player in this trade. I think Smart is the 3rd best player in this trade. I think Jones is a better player than Smart.

Clearly Grizzlies management doesn't agree with you, they value Smart 2 first round draft picks more valuable than Jones in the trade.

Yeah, I prefer Smart over Tyus Jones myself. I view Tyus Jones as similar to Monte Morris. A very efficient backup guard who is good in a moderate role. An adequate starter if required. I consider T Jones a bit better than M Morris but not by a huge amount. T Jones would still be a below average starter.

I rate Smart as a middle of the pack starting PG. Good upgrade over T Jones. Not enough of an upgrade to justify giving up 2 first round picks for + not a good fit next to Morant because they need to surround Morant with shooters ... but still better than T Jones.

Jones and Morris are very similar. Morris is a better shooter, or at least has been for longer, but Jones is better defensively.

Smart is certainly better than both, but they have totally different strengths. Jones is the anti-Smart - small, super calm and collected, never turns it over, and is generally efficient. Very little dynamism.

They need a bit of dynamism and pitbull with the loss of Brooks, who despite all his flaws gave them an edge. Smart is a better player than Brooks, but similarly strong.