Grant Williams Sign and Trade Ideas

[Wretch]

Still a huge talent differential between Wood and Grant.   Wood has the tools to be good defender>  He is an above average athlete with superior length.   He is what 6-11 with a 7-3 wingspan so the tools are there.

And every team he's been on gets rid of him or let's him go.  He's not a winning player.

[Vermont Green]

Wood is a UFA.  If we were to take him back as a Sign and Trade, it would hard cap us and we are already over the cap.  I don't believe there is any scenario where we could take him back in a sign and trade.  I think the best we can do is the tax payer MLE.  I am no psychic but I do not see Christian Wood in the Celtics future.

I think we can sign and trade Grant without any impact on us regarding a hard cap but the team receiving Grant would have to be under and stay under the hard cap if they take Grant.

It is hard to say but this is feeling like it is going to be a down year for FAs.  Team's appear to be afraid of the new CBA rules and are running away from salary.

[tonydelk]

With the addition of 2 x 1st round picks I wonder if Grant and the 25 pick and another pick can get you #10 this year. 

[jay]

Grant Williams
Payton Pritchard
#25 pick
2024 Warriors pick

For

#7 pick?  (With our buddy Theis and maybe one other player for filler)

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Grant Williams
Payton Pritchard
#25 pick
2024 Warriors pick

For

#7 pick?  (With our buddy Theis and maybe one other player for filler)

I think #6 makes more sense with the Magic. No way they are bringing in two more lottery picks. They need vets.

[jay]

That works for me. I want Anthony Black

[RJ87]

Grant Williams
Payton Pritchard
#25 pick
2024 Warriors pick

For

#7 pick?  (With our buddy Theis and maybe one other player for filler)

I don't see it from the Pacers perspective. They don't need us to facilitate this deal really knowing we won't match. We're likely looking at a trade exception and a 2nd rounder.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Grant Williams
Payton Pritchard
#25 pick
2024 Warriors pick

For

#7 pick?  (With our buddy Theis and maybe one other player for filler)

I don't see it from the Pacers perspective. They don't need us to facilitate this deal really knowing we won't match. We're likely looking at a trade exception and a 2nd rounder.

Depends on Stevens pokerface.

[RJ87]

Grant Williams
Payton Pritchard
#25 pick
2024 Warriors pick

For

#7 pick?  (With our buddy Theis and maybe one other player for filler)

I don't see it from the Pacers perspective. They don't need us to facilitate this deal really knowing we won't match. We're likely looking at a trade exception and a 2nd rounder.

Depends on Stevens pokerface.

Resigning Grant puts us above the second apron and teams with cap know that. There's no poker face to play here.

[Celtics2021]

Grant Williams
Payton Pritchard
#25 pick
2024 Warriors pick

For

#7 pick?  (With our buddy Theis and maybe one other player for filler)

I don't see it from the Pacers perspective. They don't need us to facilitate this deal really knowing we won't match. We're likely looking at a trade exception and a 2nd rounder.

Depends on Stevens pokerface.

Resigning Grant puts us above the second apron and teams with cap know that. There's no poker face to play here.

The poker face is that we are okay with the second apron for a couple of years.  And we should be.  It’s restrictive, but if we’re choosing between Grant and the taxpayer MLE, Grant is better.  If we’re at the second apron, we can’t add salary in trades, but we probably don’t want to anyway.  We don’t want to be there too many years in a row, but that’s tomorrow’s problem, not today’s. I don’t see the C’s bending over backwards to avoid the second apron this year, and maybe not next year either.  There’s certainly a dollar amount the C’s won’t match, but it’s not the dollar amount that keeps them below the second apron for next season.

[goCeltics]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1671900451820691459?t=TsZ6EItjHl1E7eGreySa0A&s=19

1) Can not trade him tonight as he is RFA. Impossible
2) c's too close to the 2nd apron to use the TMLE
3) hard to trade Grant, as he is BYC, this offseason unless it is into cap space.


I can see them resign him and going above the 2nd apron, unless a team throws crazy money at him 25 mil plus

[Vermont Green]

The poker face is that we are okay with the second apron for a couple of years.  And we should be.  It’s restrictive, but if we’re choosing between Grant and the taxpayer MLE, Grant is better.  If we’re at the second apron, we can’t add salary in trades, but we probably don’t want to anyway.  We don’t want to be there too many years in a row, but that’s tomorrow’s problem, not today’s. I don’t see the C’s bending over backwards to avoid the second apron this year, and maybe not next year either.  There’s certainly a dollar amount the C’s won’t match, but it’s not the dollar amount that keeps them below the second apron for next season.

I had worked through this in another thread.  We are at about $173M right now with 11 players.  The second apron is $179.5M.  We have to sign at least 2 or 3 more players in any case.  Assume we sign pick #25 ($2.5M) and that puts us at 12 players and $175.5M.  Even at that point, we can't use the full TP-MLE ($5M) as that would put us over the second apron with only 13 players (and no Grant).  We could only use $4M of the MLE, and if we did that, we would be at $179.4999M, couldn't spend $1 more without going over the apron.

Even if we stopped right there, we still could make any trades that add salary or sign any vet min contracts as doing so would put us over the second apron.  So we may as well just sign Grant, sign our rookie, and I don't know if we can sign Davison once we are over the second apron, but then the rest is all 2-way contracts.

[Vermont Green]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1671900451820691459?t=TsZ6EItjHl1E7eGreySa0A&s=19

1) Can not trade him tonight as he is RFA. Impossible
2) c's too close to the 2nd apron to use the TMLE
3) hard to trade Grant, as he is BYC, this offseason unless it is into cap space.


I can see them resign him and going above the 2nd apron, unless a team throws crazy money at him 25 mil plus

Exactly, I explained pretty much the same thing.  On the BYC, we can only take back 50% of his salary.  So if he signs for $10M, we can only take back $5M or less.  But the other team would need to be able to sign him under the hard cap in any case.  There is a narrow scenario where a team might want to sign Grant and send us say a $3M player back or something like that but even then, we are likely to end up over the apron anyway.  We might be less over the apron, but we will still be over.  So why would we trade Grant for what is likely a lesser player?

[Celtics2021]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1671900451820691459?t=TsZ6EItjHl1E7eGreySa0A&s=19

1) Can not trade him tonight as he is RFA. Impossible
2) c's too close to the 2nd apron to use the TMLE
3) hard to trade Grant, as he is BYC, this offseason unless it is into cap space.

I disagree with point 3.  It’s not that difficult for a few reasons.

1) Any team with the MLE can now use it as a trade exception, which means if Grant winds up at that salary his new team wouldn’t need to send back any salary.  Also, any team with TPE’s larger than the MLE can also do this for even larger salaries.

2) If he gets a couple million more, deals can still work.  For example, suppose Grant gets $14 million in year 1.  His outgoing salary for the Celtics’ is $7 million.  His new team would need to send back $9 million to the Celtics in order to match salaries.  Grant alone can bring back $8.85 million, and the Celtics could then send over a small amount of extra guaranteed salary from Champagnie to get over the hump (as Champagnie is currently not guaranteed, they can just give him a partial guarantee, as they did for Fitts, Stauskas, and Morgan in the Brogdon deal last summer).  There comes a limit where this will not work, and it probably approaches a salary that the Celtics would not match, but BYC isn’t a huge hurdle for players in the mid-level range.  It’s more once you get to salaries starting near to $20 million than $12-15 million.

[goCeltics]

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1671900451820691459?t=TsZ6EItjHl1E7eGreySa0A&s=19

1) Can not trade him tonight as he is RFA. Impossible
2) c's too close to the 2nd apron to use the TMLE
3) hard to trade Grant, as he is BYC, this offseason unless it is into cap space.

I disagree with point 3.  It’s not that difficult for a few reasons.

1) Any team with the MLE can now use it as a trade exception, which means if Grant winds up at that salary his new team wouldn’t need to send back any salary.  Also, any team with TPE’s larger than the MLE can also do this for even larger salaries.

2) If he gets a couple million more, deals can still work.  For example, suppose Grant gets $14 million in year 1.  His outgoing salary for the Celtics’ is $7 million.  His new team would need to send back $9 million to the Celtics in order to match salaries.  Grant alone can bring back $8.85 million, and the Celtics could then send over a small amount of extra guaranteed salary from Champagnie to get over the hump (as Champagnie is currently not guaranteed, they can just give him a partial guarantee, as they did for Fitts, Stauskas, and Morgan in the Brogdon deal last summer).  There comes a limit where this will not work, and it probably approaches a salary that the Celtics would not match, but BYC isn’t a huge hurdle for players in the mid-level range.  It’s more once you get to salaries starting near to $20 million than $12-15 million.

Find me a worthwhile trade with those parameters