Author Topic: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?  (Read 2310 times)

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How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« on: September 23, 2021, 03:11:44 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Was looking at the final 2018-2019 stands the other day

6-8 for playoffs were really mediocre
6) Nets (led by Russell and dinwiddie were 5 seed)
7) Magic led by vucevic and gordon
8) Pistons (Blake griffin and drummond were best players)

After that all these teams were degrees of awful.
charlotte
heat
atlanta
nets
knicks
cavs
bulls

Fast forward two years and the only really horrible teams in the east are probably detroit, cleveland and orlando.

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2021, 09:06:57 AM »

Online Moranis

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2021, 11:24:20 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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There are some intriguing East teams that have rebuilt themselves this off season or should otherwise be improved:

Bulls
Ball
Lavine
DeRozan
Williams
Vucevic

Knicks
Kemba
Barrett
Fournier
Randle
Robinson

Pacers
Brogdon
LeVert
Warren
Sabonis
Turner

Even the Wizards when they get Bryant back:
Dinwiddie
Beal
Kuzma
Hachimura
Bryant

I think the Celtics can be better than these teams but there are going to be very few "easy" games.  Many of these lower tier but still tough teams have size that is going to give us problems.  The East has really good top teams but deep is the right word to describe the rest.

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2021, 09:25:11 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive. 

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2021, 10:03:54 PM »

Online Moranis

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2021, 12:37:19 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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The 17-18 season has to be the weakest in a long time. #4 seeded Cavs entered the NBA Finals and they had to take down the Pacers in 7 games, swept the #1 seed Raptors, and took Boston to 7 games before getting swept in the Finals.

Still, honestly, we should have been in the Finals that year. We'd probably lose in 5 games to the Warriors but at least making into the NBA Finals would have been a nice gesture.

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2021, 12:51:51 AM »

Online Moranis

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The 17-18 season has to be the weakest in a long time. #4 seeded Cavs entered the NBA Finals and they had to take down the Pacers in 7 games, swept the #1 seed Raptors, and took Boston to 7 games before getting swept in the Finals.

Still, honestly, we should have been in the Finals that year. We'd probably lose in 5 games to the Warriors but at least making into the NBA Finals would have been a nice gesture.
I have a hard time putting much stock in a Lebron James led teams regular season record.  He wasn't the first guy to coast through large parts of the regular season, but he has made it an artform and has truly developed peaking at the right time as a mantra.  Even that year when he played all 82 games, he coasted a lot.  Plus Love played 59 games and that was the season they were a trainwreck for much of the regular season and basically remade the vast majority of their roster at the trade deadline.  Plus the west only had 2 teams that were theoretically good enough to win the title i.e. the Warriors and Rockets.  I mean the Lillard/McCollum Blazers were the 3rd seed in the west with just 49 wins. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2021, 02:28:00 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East.

I give you the award for writing the most with saying the least. The Knicks and hawks and bulls are clearly better than they were a few years ago. The East is a bit deeper. This isnít a debatable point. Stop the nonsense.

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2021, 02:28:46 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The 17-18 season has to be the weakest in a long time. #4 seeded Cavs entered the NBA Finals and they had to take down the Pacers in 7 games, swept the #1 seed Raptors, and took Boston to 7 games before getting swept in the Finals.

Still, honestly, we should have been in the Finals that year. We'd probably lose in 5 games to the Warriors but at least making into the NBA Finals would have been a nice gesture.

Agreed.

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2021, 11:17:59 AM »

Online Moranis

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East.

I give you the award for writing the most with saying the least. The Knicks and hawks and bulls are clearly better than they were a few years ago. The East is a bit deeper. This isnít a debatable point. Stop the nonsense.
Sure but the Raptors, Wizards, and Pistons are also a lot worse than they were a few years ago.  The Celtics are worse as well.  Just because some teams have gotten better doesn't mean other teams haven't gotten worse.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2021, 02:12:23 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East.

I give you the award for writing the most with saying the least. The Knicks and hawks and bulls are clearly better than they were a few years ago. The East is a bit deeper. This isnít a debatable point. Stop the nonsense.
Sure but the Raptors, Wizards, and Pistons are also a lot worse than they were a few years ago.  The Celtics are worse as well.  Just because some teams have gotten better doesn't mean other teams haven't gotten worse.

Really just derailing any reasonable discussion with nonsense here. You realize what it means when someone says a League or division is deep right? It means there are more competitive teams. The Celtics whether projected for 52 wins and now be projected for 46 are a competitive team. The Pistons were mediocre then and are mediocre now. Iím not even sure why you think the wizards are significantly different. They have have beal dinwiddie and some ok role players. The Knicks, hawks, nets, bulls on the other hand all went from cake walk games to very competitive good teams. Again, the discussion isnít whether the East is deeper, it absolutely is. The discussion is how much harder it makes for a team like the Celtics or if this helps a team in the west have an easier path to the finals.

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2021, 02:54:51 PM »

Online Moranis

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East.

I give you the award for writing the most with saying the least. The Knicks and hawks and bulls are clearly better than they were a few years ago. The East is a bit deeper. This isnít a debatable point. Stop the nonsense.
Sure but the Raptors, Wizards, and Pistons are also a lot worse than they were a few years ago.  The Celtics are worse as well.  Just because some teams have gotten better doesn't mean other teams haven't gotten worse.

Really just derailing any reasonable discussion with nonsense here. You realize what it means when someone says a League or division is deep right? It means there are more competitive teams. The Celtics whether projected for 52 wins and now be projected for 46 are a competitive team. The Pistons were mediocre then and are mediocre now. Iím not even sure why you think the wizards are significantly different. They have have beal dinwiddie and some ok role players. The Knicks, hawks, nets, bulls on the other hand all went from cake walk games to very competitive good teams. Again, the discussion isnít whether the East is deeper, it absolutely is. The discussion is how much harder it makes for a team like the Celtics or if this helps a team in the west have an easier path to the finals.
So in the course of a day you've gone from calling Detroit horrible to calling them mediocre.  Talk about changing facts to fit whatever argument you want to argue. 

In 2019, the Raptors won 58 games.  Are you telling me they aren't a lot worse now?  The Pistons won 41 games and made the playoffs.  Are you telling me they aren't a lot worse now?  In 2019, 3 teams won 22 or less games in the East, the Knicks, Cavs, and Bulls.  The Hawks were a 29 win team.  Are you telling me you don't think that something similar (with different teams, well the Cavs will likely still be there) isn't going to happen this year?  29 wins is 35.4% win percentage.  Last year 3 teams were below that with the 4th team at 37.5%.  That is pretty much how it works every single season.  There are usually 3 or 4 teams that win at 35.4% or below (in the East alone, I mean).  Sometimes there is a really really bad team and you end up with only 2 or you sometimes hit 5, but for the most part every single season there are 3 or 4 teams that are just bad.  I see no reason to think this year is any different.  And it is usually that way in the west as well. 

The West is a better conference because there are more top tier teams, but they each have dregs and they each have mediocrity. 

The Celtics path to the Finals will require them beating (or avoiding) Brooklyn and Milwaukee.  Before that it required avoiding Cleveland and Toronto.  They could potentially lose a series to a team like Miami (just as they did in the bubble) or Philly if they get their Simmons trade over with, but that is it.  Boston isn't a realistic contender because they aren't as good as the two best teams in the sport, who just so happen to reside in the East, including one in their division. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2021, 03:24:33 PM »

Offline Birdman

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I was waiting for some Zion trade proposals lolÖ he will wait to be a FA and sign with either New York or Lakers
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Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2021, 04:11:28 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East.

I give you the award for writing the most with saying the least. The Knicks and hawks and bulls are clearly better than they were a few years ago. The East is a bit deeper. This isnít a debatable point. Stop the nonsense.
Sure but the Raptors, Wizards, and Pistons are also a lot worse than they were a few years ago.  The Celtics are worse as well.  Just because some teams have gotten better doesn't mean other teams haven't gotten worse.

Really just derailing any reasonable discussion with nonsense here. You realize what it means when someone says a League or division is deep right? It means there are more competitive teams. The Celtics whether projected for 52 wins and now be projected for 46 are a competitive team. The Pistons were mediocre then and are mediocre now. Iím not even sure why you think the wizards are significantly different. They have have beal dinwiddie and some ok role players. The Knicks, hawks, nets, bulls on the other hand all went from cake walk games to very competitive good teams. Again, the discussion isnít whether the East is deeper, it absolutely is. The discussion is how much harder it makes for a team like the Celtics or if this helps a team in the west have an easier path to the finals.
So in the course of a day you've gone from calling Detroit horrible to calling them mediocre.  Talk about changing facts to fit whatever argument you want to argue. 

In 2019, the Raptors won 58 games.  Are you telling me they aren't a lot worse now?  The Pistons won 41 games and made the playoffs.  Are you telling me they aren't a lot worse now?  In 2019, 3 teams won 22 or less games in the East, the Knicks, Cavs, and Bulls.  The Hawks were a 29 win team.  Are you telling me you don't think that something similar (with different teams, well the Cavs will likely still be there) isn't going to happen this year?  29 wins is 35.4% win percentage.  Last year 3 teams were below that with the 4th team at 37.5%.  That is pretty much how it works every single season.  There are usually 3 or 4 teams that win at 35.4% or below (in the East alone, I mean).  Sometimes there is a really really bad team and you end up with only 2 or you sometimes hit 5, but for the most part every single season there are 3 or 4 teams that are just bad.  I see no reason to think this year is any different.  And it is usually that way in the west as well. 

The West is a better conference because there are more top tier teams, but they each have dregs and they each have mediocrity. 

The Celtics path to the Finals will require them beating (or avoiding) Brooklyn and Milwaukee.  Before that it required avoiding Cleveland and Toronto.  They could potentially lose a series to a team like Miami (just as they did in the bubble) or Philly if they get their Simmons trade over with, but that is it.  Boston isn't a realistic contender because they aren't as good as the two best teams in the sport, who just so happen to reside in the East, including one in their division.
I honestly donít even know what you are trying to do here. The East is objectively deeper than it was a few years ago. Why are you like this?

Re: How much deeper has the east gotten the last few seasons?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2021, 08:45:44 AM »

Online Moranis

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It's because Lebron went west.  ;)

Yep that was definitely a take off yours that aged bad. Glad you can actually laugh about it. The real reason the east is less mediocre is the development of players. Trae young and other young players developing line John Collins made hawks not mediocre. Randles ascension into an all nba player made knicks not horrible. Zach lavine becoming an all star level talent made Chicago competitive. Toronto having development from siakem, og and van fleet has stopped them from becoming pathetic after leonard left. The celtics dispersing talent to Charlotte (rozier and hayward) and nets has made the hornets competitive.
Honestly, I don't know that the 2019 bottom teams in the east are really any worse than they are today.  The 19 Hornets, Heat, and Wizards didn't make the playoffs and were probably better than 9-11 right now.  The Hawks were really young that year, but had the talent base in place.  The Bulls were just super injured (LaVine's 63 games were 4th most on the team and only 1 guy played more than 74 games).

The two best teams in the sport are in the East right now, which really helps, and there are a few other teams that could certainly make a run to the ECF if they landed the right match-ups.  And there are more big stars in general in the East right now (which was the point I was making in my stars going east thread), but with Philly the way it is, there really are only 2 teams that look like Finals teams in the conference, where I think you could make reasonable arguments for 4 or 5 teams in the West. 

If you look at the SI top 100 only 4 players from the East were in the top 10 (Durant, Giannis, Harden, Embiid). 5 of the next 10 and then 5 of the next 10, but only Bam was in the 21-25 range.  So of SI's top 25 players next year only 10 were in the East, with 15 out West.  That all makes sense when you look at the Futures and what not where only 2 of the top 7 in odds are in the East (at least at the site I was looking at), but Brooklyn was 1 and Milwaukee was 3 (the Lakers were 2), after the Bucks it was the Clippers, Suns, Warriors, and Jazz before the Sixers at 8, Nuggets at 9, and Mavericks at 10.  Then you get the Hawks, Heat, Celtics before another West run of Blazers, Pelicans, Grizzlies.  So only 6 of the top 16 teams by odds to win the title are in the East.

I give you the award for writing the most with saying the least. The Knicks and hawks and bulls are clearly better than they were a few years ago. The East is a bit deeper. This isnít a debatable point. Stop the nonsense.
Sure but the Raptors, Wizards, and Pistons are also a lot worse than they were a few years ago.  The Celtics are worse as well.  Just because some teams have gotten better doesn't mean other teams haven't gotten worse.

Really just derailing any reasonable discussion with nonsense here. You realize what it means when someone says a League or division is deep right? It means there are more competitive teams. The Celtics whether projected for 52 wins and now be projected for 46 are a competitive team. The Pistons were mediocre then and are mediocre now. Iím not even sure why you think the wizards are significantly different. They have have beal dinwiddie and some ok role players. The Knicks, hawks, nets, bulls on the other hand all went from cake walk games to very competitive good teams. Again, the discussion isnít whether the East is deeper, it absolutely is. The discussion is how much harder it makes for a team like the Celtics or if this helps a team in the west have an easier path to the finals.
So in the course of a day you've gone from calling Detroit horrible to calling them mediocre.  Talk about changing facts to fit whatever argument you want to argue. 

In 2019, the Raptors won 58 games.  Are you telling me they aren't a lot worse now?  The Pistons won 41 games and made the playoffs.  Are you telling me they aren't a lot worse now?  In 2019, 3 teams won 22 or less games in the East, the Knicks, Cavs, and Bulls.  The Hawks were a 29 win team.  Are you telling me you don't think that something similar (with different teams, well the Cavs will likely still be there) isn't going to happen this year?  29 wins is 35.4% win percentage.  Last year 3 teams were below that with the 4th team at 37.5%.  That is pretty much how it works every single season.  There are usually 3 or 4 teams that win at 35.4% or below (in the East alone, I mean).  Sometimes there is a really really bad team and you end up with only 2 or you sometimes hit 5, but for the most part every single season there are 3 or 4 teams that are just bad.  I see no reason to think this year is any different.  And it is usually that way in the west as well. 

The West is a better conference because there are more top tier teams, but they each have dregs and they each have mediocrity. 

The Celtics path to the Finals will require them beating (or avoiding) Brooklyn and Milwaukee.  Before that it required avoiding Cleveland and Toronto.  They could potentially lose a series to a team like Miami (just as they did in the bubble) or Philly if they get their Simmons trade over with, but that is it.  Boston isn't a realistic contender because they aren't as good as the two best teams in the sport, who just so happen to reside in the East, including one in their division.
I honestly donít even know what you are trying to do here. The East is objectively deeper than it was a few years ago. Why are you like this?
Objectively using what standard.  There are still only 6 All NBA Players in the East.  More of the worst teams in basketball are still in the East.  There will still be a team in the West that isn't in the top 8 that has a better record than a team in the East that is in the top 8.  A bad Knicks team just finished in the top 4 in the East.  The two best teams in the sport are in the East (or at least 2 of the 3), but after that, the East is decidedly mediocre or bad.
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08