PBS trigger happy?

[Celtics2021]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I’m sure Brad would have loved to keep the 1st rounder and give up a couple of seconds, but Presti or anyone else would not have it.  Kemba has arguably the worst contract in the NBA.

There’s no need for hyperbole.  There are exactly zero people who would take John Wall’s contract over Kemba’s.

I’d take John Wall over Kemba if I had to choose. Least he has size and is a pass first PG. The fact that you have one example of a player that you view as having a worse contract says a lot.

I could probably come up with others, but I didn’t need to try because Wall’s contract is so terrible.  It’s frankly laughable that you would make an argument that his is even comparable to Kemba’s.  Wall hasn’t played more than 41 games in a season since 2016!.  He’s been unhealthy about as long as IT.  And he’s owed $91 million the next two years.  And he’s about as good a shooter as Marcus Smart.  It isn’t even close.

[Goldstar88]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I’m sure Brad would have loved to keep the 1st rounder and give up a couple of seconds, but Presti or anyone else would not have it.  Kemba has arguably the worst contract in the NBA.

There’s no need for hyperbole.  There are exactly zero people who would take John Wall’s contract over Kemba’s.

I’d take John Wall over Kemba if I had to choose. Least he has size and is a pass first PG. The fact that you have one example of a player that you view as having a worse contract says a lot.

I could probably come up with others, but I didn’t need to try because Wall’s contract is so terrible.  It’s frankly laughable that you would make an argument that his is even comparable to Kemba’s.  Wall hasn’t played more than 41 games in a season since 2016!.  He’s been unhealthy about as long as IT.  And he’s owed $91 million the next two years.  And he’s about as good a shooter as Marcus Smart.  It isn’t even close.

Well, Wall was traded to Houston for a former MVP who averages a triple double. So laugh all you want. If healthy, which Wall And Kemba typically are not, John is the better player.

[Celtics2021]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I’m sure Brad would have loved to keep the 1st rounder and give up a couple of seconds, but Presti or anyone else would not have it.  Kemba has arguably the worst contract in the NBA.

There’s no need for hyperbole.  There are exactly zero people who would take John Wall’s contract over Kemba’s.

I’d take John Wall over Kemba if I had to choose. Least he has size and is a pass first PG. The fact that you have one example of a player that you view as having a worse contract says a lot.

I could probably come up with others, but I didn’t need to try because Wall’s contract is so terrible.  It’s frankly laughable that you would make an argument that his is even comparable to Kemba’s.  Wall hasn’t played more than 41 games in a season since 2016!.  He’s been unhealthy about as long as IT.  And he’s owed $91 million the next two years.  And he’s about as good a shooter as Marcus Smart.  It isn’t even close.

Well, Wall was traded to Houston for a former MVP who averages a triple double. So laugh all you want. If healthy, which Wall And Kemba typically are not, John is the better player.

Okay man, keep on joking.  Wall hasn’t been the better player in years.

[Goldstar88]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I’m sure Brad would have loved to keep the 1st rounder and give up a couple of seconds, but Presti or anyone else would not have it.  Kemba has arguably the worst contract in the NBA.

There’s no need for hyperbole.  There are exactly zero people who would take John Wall’s contract over Kemba’s.

I’d take John Wall over Kemba if I had to choose. Least he has size and is a pass first PG. The fact that you have one example of a player that you view as having a worse contract says a lot.

I could probably come up with others, but I didn’t need to try because Wall’s contract is so terrible.  It’s frankly laughable that you would make an argument that his is even comparable to Kemba’s.  Wall hasn’t played more than 41 games in a season since 2016!.  He’s been unhealthy about as long as IT.  And he’s owed $91 million the next two years.  And he’s about as good a shooter as Marcus Smart.  It isn’t even close.

Well, Wall was traded to Houston for a former MVP who averages a triple double. So laugh all you want. If healthy, which Wall And Kemba typically are not, John is the better player.

Okay man, keep on joking.  Wall hasn’t been the better player in years.

It’s not a joke. Wall was literally traded for a former MVP 7 months ago.  If what you are saying is true, the trade would not have happened.

[droopdog7]

Pretty sure Brad explained why the trade was done early.  Unfortunately, I don't remember the explanation.

[Roy H.]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I’m sure Brad would have loved to keep the 1st rounder and give up a couple of seconds, but Presti or anyone else would not have it.  Kemba has arguably the worst contract in the NBA.

There’s no need for hyperbole.  There are exactly zero people who would take John Wall’s contract over Kemba’s.

I’d take John Wall over Kemba if I had to choose. Least he has size and is a pass first PG. The fact that you have one example of a player that you view as having a worse contract says a lot.

I could probably come up with others, but I didn’t need to try because Wall’s contract is so terrible.  It’s frankly laughable that you would make an argument that his is even comparable to Kemba’s.  Wall hasn’t played more than 41 games in a season since 2016!.  He’s been unhealthy about as long as IT.  And he’s owed $91 million the next two years.  And he’s about as good a shooter as Marcus Smart.  It isn’t even close.

Well, Wall was traded to Houston for a former MVP who averages a triple double. So laugh all you want. If healthy, which Wall And Kemba typically are not, John is the better player.

Okay man, keep on joking.  Wall hasn’t been the better player in years.

It’s not a joke. Wall was literally traded for a former MVP 7 months ago.  If what you are saying is true, the trade would not have happened.

I think it was more like, the only team in the NBA that would give up an asset for Westbrook was Washington, and the cost of doing business was taking on Wall's albatross contract.

[Vermont Green]

Pretty sure Brad explained why the trade was done early.  Unfortunately, I don't remember the explanation.

I think the timing of the Kemba trade was likely pushed by OKC more than by Boston (although no one is likely to come right out and say this).  OKC has to wait 60 days to trade Kemba again.  This gives them time to do that in the off season.  Getting this done early gives OKC some added flexibility to get the most when they do flip Kemba.

As to the trade itself, I am surprised by how many people sum this up as "it cost us pick 16 to dump Kemba", ignoring that we got Al Horford (a bad contract in its own right but a useful player at a position of need) and also Moses Brown (Mr. 20/20), a high ceiling, low risk prospect who has already proven he is NBA-ready.

I don't expect Horford or Brown to set the world on fire but I think both will be productive, useful players.  If we are lucky, the 16th pick would be about as useful as Langford or Nesmith were in their rookie seasons (ie, not all that useful).  In time, Langford and Nesmith probably will be decent players and the same for the #16 pick this draft, but there is no guarantee the pick amounts to anything.  Moses Brown is almost certain to help the team day 1 based on what he has already accomplished in the NBA (and Horford also of course).

[Celtics2021]

Pretty sure Brad explained why the trade was done early.  Unfortunately, I don't remember the explanation.

I think the timing of the Kemba trade was likely pushed by OKC more than by Boston (although no one is likely to come right out and say this).  OKC has to wait 60 days to trade Kemba again.  This gives them time to do that in the off season.  Getting this done early gives OKC some added flexibility to get the most when they do flip Kemba.

As to the trade itself, I am surprised by how many people sum this up as "it cost us pick 16 to dump Kemba", ignoring that we got Al Horford (a bad contract in its own right but a useful player at a position of need) and also Moses Brown (Mr. 20/20), a high ceiling, low risk prospect who has already proven he is NBA-ready.

I don't expect Horford or Brown to set the world on fire but I think both will be productive, useful players.  If we are lucky, the 16th pick would be about as useful as Langford or Nesmith were in their rookie seasons (ie, not all that useful).  In time, Langford and Nesmith probably will be decent players and the same for the #16 pick this draft, but there is no guarantee the pick amounts to anything.  Moses Brown is almost certain to help the team day 1 based on what he has already accomplished in the NBA (and Horford also of course).

OKC only has to wait 60 days to aggregate Kemba's salary with other players.  He can be traded if he's not aggregated, and given a) that alone he can bring back north of $45 million, and b) the Thunder have tons of cap room/trade exceptions (their choice of which way to go) to bring back players, it's highly unlikely that the 60-day aggregation restriction would actually prevent a deal.  The cap reason to trade him earlier was from both sides -- it made him ineligible for his trade kicker, which saved the Celtics ~$3 million, and saved the Thunder that same amount in cap space.

[BruceBanner18]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I mean, the trade saved us a minimum of $20 million, gave us the ability to afford Fournier, added Moses Brown and brought us back a good starting center.

That’s pretty good value for the #16.

I don't think the plan is signing Fournier. I think they used the tpe on a player with an expiring contract as not to carry salary forward. Fournier gave us a little horsepower for a playoff push with no impact on '22 cap space

I think we moved quickly and payed the price on Horford for the same reason. We didn't want to take back salary AND it put being under the cap next summer fully in our control. This allows PBS to make promises to agents/players who are FA next summer with certainty.

Most FAs know where they are going before they are actually FAs...like we saw with Horford (edit: when he went to Philly). Now the Cs can assure Beal (only an example) that they can sign him for max money and close the deal on a handshake now.

[Celtics4ever]

Brad knows Kemba and know what was going if he made the deal, there was a reason.  He is not an impulsive guy and he is a thinker.  I feel he had to make the deal before the draft.

[td450]

I guess it depends on whether you think there was no market for Horford or not. I don't doubt that his contract was a negative, but it was at a useful level for teams looking to dump an even more overpaid guy just like we did, and Horford is still useful at a really tough position to fill.

I think the move was foundational to whatever else has to happen, and we got what we needed done. Could we have saved the pick? OKC didn't have any pressure to do anything, and that hasn't changed since the deal was made. I doubt it will in the next week.

[tstorey_97]

It's Steven's job to have J's + third star in place by 2023/24 to enter the Post Nets ECF vacuum.

All this move was doing was managing the cap for the future star we can only dream of.

Walker was on the way out, so he left when he left...Presti says "I will take him if you give him to me "now" as I have plans for later."

A bunch of really smart guys evaluate the "trade Walker now deal" versus the 'wait til later deal' and voila.

BTW the Celtics do not need another young guy (#16) do they? Honestly start to structure a championship team built around the J's? We really need another "young try hard guy" who will never get minutes in the playoffs?

Bucks rotation 3 guys = 42 minutes
Suns rotation 3 guys = 37 minutes

I love talking about the "7 guys who aren't going to play", but, they still aren't going to play.

[Sketch5]

This trade was more about freeing up cap next year, then it was getting a player that was worth moving Kemba in return. Maybe you could have gotten decent role player, but would have taken on probably a bad contract.

I would had thought Horford would be moved around draft night, like to the GSW, but listening to his sister who seems like she's setting up in Boston now, maybe he's here for a year, and then he's on the bench as a coach the next after they buy him out instead.


This deal may have not been there later, there will be some teams that are trying to get some wiggle room next summer with it being a decent FA, and the one after that too.

[gouki88]

I’m still curious about the Kemba Oklahoma deal, and why it needed to be done so early in the off-season. On the outside looking in, surely that deal could have been done at the latest on the eve of the draft?

Given recent Kawhi reports, what if the Celtics missed out on a sign and trade just because Walker was moved too soon? Obviously that is just an example, but there was always going to be new permutation to the trade market, given his statistics this season, for me Walker wasn’t a zero asset and a team could have come forward that at least saved the Celtics our upcoming first round pick.

My fear is that Sam Presti smelt blood in the water with front office transition, and a rookie opposing manager, Presti struck before the Celtics truely gauged the market.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush... No one wanted Kemba. That’s why the C’s had to move him for another bad contract, plus give up a 1st round pick. Danny was reportedly shopping Kemba for a while with no takers.

I can understand 2-3 second round picks or even a late 1st rounder, but the 16th pick for essentially a salary dump???

This (hopefully) should be our last high pick for the next half decade and Stevens just gave it away. In recent history, when has giving away a good pick to fix a signing error ever worked out for a team front office? Usually it has the opposite effect.

I’m sure Brad would have loved to keep the 1st rounder and give up a couple of seconds, but Presti or anyone else would not have it.  Kemba has arguably the worst contract in the NBA.

There’s no need for hyperbole.  There are exactly zero people who would take John Wall’s contract over Kemba’s.

I’d take John Wall over Kemba if I had to choose. Least he has size and is a pass first PG. The fact that you have one example of a player that you view as having a worse contract says a lot.

I could probably come up with others, but I didn’t need to try because Wall’s contract is so terrible.  It’s frankly laughable that you would make an argument that his is even comparable to Kemba’s.  Wall hasn’t played more than 41 games in a season since 2016!.  He’s been unhealthy about as long as IT.  And he’s owed $91 million the next two years.  And he’s about as good a shooter as Marcus Smart.  It isn’t even close.

Well, Wall was traded to Houston for a former MVP who averages a triple double. So laugh all you want. If healthy, which Wall And Kemba typically are not, John is the better player.

Okay man, keep on joking.  Wall hasn’t been the better player in years.

I had this discussion during the season. Do not bother. They somehow ignore the fact that John Wall cannot defend anymore, and isn't even pass-first any more! 18.2 FGAs with only 6.9 assists is not very pass first. That's like saying Damian Lillard is pass-first