What to Do with Evan Fournier?

[cons]

hes a nice player . just hope we don't overpay for him, because he's not THAT nice.

[hpantazo]

hes a nice player . just hope we don't overpay for him, because he's not THAT nice.

The thing is, if we don't pay him, we lose that salary slot. If we do pay him and he doesn't fit in our future plans, we can trade him for someone who makes similar money.

[Csfan1984]

I'd like to see a sign and trade for a 1st and expirings if it keeps team under the tax.

Biggest thing is preserve cap fexlibilty in 22/23

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'd like to see a sign and trade for a 1st and expirings if it keeps team under the tax.

Biggest thing is preserve cap fexlibilty in 22/23

The question is, what flexibility are you hoping to gain in 2022-2023 over what Fournier would bring us?

I've brought it before, that it's an issue to consider, but if we're playing the cap space game, be prepared to lose just about everyone in the roster except Tatum and Brown (maybe Horford, but it's tight). Or you keep adding useful players which can be used on trades playing above the cap... or keep building with what we have.

[nickagneta]

Fournier is only 28 and has been extremely consistent over the last 5 years putting up 17/3/3 on shooting splits of 45/38/82 with a steal a game. Even if his defense is a bit less than average, that's a $17-20 million a year player. If the Celtics can retain him for less than $17 million, it's because Fournier is giving them a discount.

And you simply can not have enough quality wings as the 4 position, across the league, is morphing into another wing position. The Jays getting 34 MPG and Fournier 30, his norm, still leaves 46 MPG of wing time available to give to Nesmith and Langford for development. If those two average 16 MPG, prime amount of time to develop, an 8 minute run per half, there is still 14 minutes to give to a large wing/PF like Parker or Grant or to Smart and let him play alongside Pritchard.

Fournier can also be used as an excellent salary filler in a trade for Beal if one comes about sometime during next season. So I see no reason not to keep him. 4 years for $75 million sounds about right.

[Csfan1984]

I'd like to see a sign and trade for a 1st and expirings if it keeps team under the tax.

Biggest thing is preserve cap fexlibilty in 22/23

The question is, what flexibility are you hoping to gain in 2022-2023 over what Fournier would bring us?

I've brought it before, that it's an issue to consider, but if we're playing the cap space game, be prepared to lose just about everyone in the roster except Tatum and Brown (maybe Horford, but it's tight). Or you keep adding useful players which can be used on trades playing above the cap... or keep building with what we have.

Im very much okay with that. It's not as if we are talking about must keep guys. Often hurt Timelord, the human coin flip "love/hate" Smart, avg Al, Grant dnp Williams, Mr Covid TT. I'd trade them all together right now for Beal, Embid, Jokic, or Booker, just naming some of the top FAs in 22 or 23.

[td450]

I am of the opinion it isn't good management to have Langford, Nesmith, Smart and Fournier unless you plan on that group using the lion's share of both guard slot minutes.

Far and away the simplest path to the top is to fully develop Langford and Nesmith into starter/top rotational players, and it seems stupid to block that because we want to play Smart or Fournier major minutes.

Once you bring in any other non-center to play significant minutes, this plan becomes problematic, because that will just shift Jaylen back into 2 guard minutes.

So, it seems like a smart idea to sign Fournier as long as the market doesn't drive his salary off a cliff, but I do think it is important to have a rotation plan, and if someone comes in, that means Smart or Fournier has to go out.

[Vermont Green]

Most seem to agree that we need to sign him to preserve the cap space and that he is a useful player to have or trade later.

What sign and trade opportunities do you feel may exist now?  People like Dejounte Murray.  Would you do that trade?  How about trying to get someone like Markkanen?  Other ideas?

[Surferdad]

I am of the opinion it isn't good management to have Langford, Nesmith, Smart and Fournier unless you plan on that group using the lion's share of both guard slot minutes.

Far and away the simplest path to the top is to fully develop Langford and Nesmith into starter/top rotational players, and it seems stupid to block that because we want to play Smart or Fournier major minutes.

Once you bring in any other non-center to play significant minutes, this plan becomes problematic, because that will just shift Jaylen back into 2 guard minutes.

So, it seems like a smart idea to sign Fournier as long as the market doesn't drive his salary off a cliff, but I do think it is important to have a rotation plan, and if someone comes in, that means Smart or Fournier has to go out.

Um, nope.  Trade all 4 for a top-30 player.  THAT is the simplest way to the top.  Championship core:
Tatum
Brown
Horford
Top-30 player

[Rikibellevie]

Baring the fact I Would love to support a french in our futur sucess, I don't think we will extend him. He is a very good player for scoring with regulatity-in regular- and a good teamplayer. A perfect professional. Also a professional who build his carreer in an individual and But mercantil perspective. He won't discount for a team he played 3 month for. Smart could do that. And he isn't enough athletic or have enough volume or intensity.  He won't find enough the Way to the basket in the PO where he may not be more than a rotational shooter with a production depending only about his %... Defensively he is individualy below average for a W or for a G. Still smart colectively. He is the kind of player who can be usefull to an average offensive team, scoring à lot for them. That's kind of player who get s paid.It is his big contract.

We want to be more than a team that overpay a good 6men or so. And Fournier isn't the post of our needs. Our futur at PG and C is unclear. We may wait to give this money to Timelord and hopefully to Smart next summer. I trust Smart better to complete a team of BEAL-BROWN-TATUM-HORFORD. Or in a dream scenario in 1half or 2 years a big 3 with Jokic or Embid... And we must develop Langford and Nesmith who will have a role to complement our future big3....

So the 2/3 Hayward TPE has been lost for nothing. Easy to say but it was time to move on last year TD when we had a chance. With the full Hayward TPE we could have overpay Lowry for 1 or 1+1Y giving maybe the 14th to Toronto. Don't like the last Danny move and for now neither that much CBS first one. Would be intrigued if we resign Evan.

[Somebody]

Baring the fact I Would love to support a french in our futur sucess, I don't think we will extend him. He is a very good player for scoring with regulatity-in regular- and a good teamplayer. A perfect professional. Also a professional who build his carreer in an individual and But mercantil perspective. He won't discount for a team he played 3 month for. Smart could do that. And he isn't enough athletic or have enough volume or intensity.  He won't find enough the Way to the basket in the PO where he may not be more than a rotational shooter with a production depending only about his %... Defensively he is individualy below average for a W or for a G. Still smart colectively. He is the kind of player who can be usefull to an average offensive team, scoring à lot for them. That's kind of player who get s paid.It is his big contract.

We want to be more than a team that overpay a good 6men or so. And Fournier isn't the post of our needs. Our futur at PG and C is unclear. We may wait to give this money to Timelord and hopefully to Smart next summer. I trust Smart better to complete a team of BEAL-BROWN-TATUM-HORFORD. Or in a dream scenario in 1half or 2 years a big 3 with Jokic or Embid... And we must develop Langford and Nesmith who will have a role to complement our future big3....

So the 2/3 Hayward TPE has been lost for nothing. Easy to say but it was time to move on last year TD when we had a chance. With the full Hayward TPE we could have overpay Lowry for 1 or 1+1Y giving maybe the 14th to Toronto. Don't like the last Danny move and for now neither that much CBS first one. Would be intrigued if we resign Evan.

Wenbanyama

[Rikibellevie]

Baring the fact I Would love to support a french in our futur sucess, I don't think we will extend him. He is a very good player for scoring with regulatity-in regular- and a good teamplayer. A perfect professional. Also a professional who build his carreer in an individual and But mercantil perspective. He won't discount for a team he played 3 month for. Smart could do that. And he isn't enough athletic or have enough volume or intensity.  He won't find enough the Way to the basket in the PO where he may not be more than a rotational shooter with a production depending only about his %... Defensively he is individualy below average for a W or for a G. Still smart colectively. He is the kind of player who can be usefull to an average offensive team, scoring à lot for them. That's kind of player who get s paid.It is his big contract.

We want to be more than a team that overpay a good 6men or so. And Fournier isn't the post of our needs. Our futur at PG and C is unclear. We may wait to give this money to Timelord and hopefully to Smart next summer. I trust Smart better to complete a team of BEAL-BROWN-TATUM-HORFORD. Or in a dream scenario in 1half or 2 years a big 3 with Jokic or Embid... And we must develop Langford and Nesmith who will have a role to complement our future big3....

So the 2/3 Hayward TPE has been lost for nothing. Easy to say but it was time to move on last year TD when we had a chance. With the full Hayward TPE we could have overpay Lowry for 1 or 1+1Y giving maybe the 14th to Toronto. Don't like the last Danny move and for now neither that much CBS first one. Would be intrigued if we resign Evan.

Wenbanyama

Lol. I guess the trio Tatum Beal Brown has realy to shrink to reach 2023 1st pick. 😀

[BudweiserCeltic]

Baring the fact I Would love to support a french in our futur sucess, I don't think we will extend him. He is a very good player for scoring with regulatity-in regular- and a good teamplayer. A perfect professional. Also a professional who build his carreer in an individual and But mercantil perspective. He won't discount for a team he played 3 month for. Smart could do that. And he isn't enough athletic or have enough volume or intensity.  He won't find enough the Way to the basket in the PO where he may not be more than a rotational shooter with a production depending only about his %... Defensively he is individualy below average for a W or for a G. Still smart colectively. He is the kind of player who can be usefull to an average offensive team, scoring à lot for them. That's kind of player who get s paid.It is his big contract.

We want to be more than a team that overpay a good 6men or so. And Fournier isn't the post of our needs. Our futur at PG and C is unclear. We may wait to give this money to Timelord and hopefully to Smart next summer. I trust Smart better to complete a team of BEAL-BROWN-TATUM-HORFORD. Or in a dream scenario in 1half or 2 years a big 3 with Jokic or Embid... And we must develop Langford and Nesmith who will have a role to complement our future big3....

So the 2/3 Hayward TPE has been lost for nothing. Easy to say but it was time to move on last year TD when we had a chance. With the full Hayward TPE we could have overpay Lowry for 1 or 1+1Y giving maybe the 14th to Toronto. Don't like the last Danny move and for now neither that much CBS first one. Would be intrigued if we resign Evan.

Fun fact, Fournier's contract wouldn't impede us from extending Timelord and Smart. If you're thinking of a future in which Beal is here or Jokic or Embiid, Smart won't be part of the equation unless they're traded for... and guess what you need to do to make a trade happen? Assets and players who can be traded, so that's where Fournier would come in (or someone else and we keep Fournier).

But if you're saving money in order to sign Beal, Jokic or Embiid, which are all in the end longshots, Smart, et al. won't be part of the team... we won't have the cap space for it. At least not with Beal, haven't crunched the numbers for the 2023 free-agency... in the meantime if you don't put competent teams together, you're wasting Brown's and Tatum's time, and they're going to bolt not long after.

Some food for thought.

[td450]

I am of the opinion it isn't good management to have Langford, Nesmith, Smart and Fournier unless you plan on that group using the lion's share of both guard slot minutes.

Far and away the simplest path to the top is to fully develop Langford and Nesmith into starter/top rotational players, and it seems stupid to block that because we want to play Smart or Fournier major minutes.

Once you bring in any other non-center to play significant minutes, this plan becomes problematic, because that will just shift Jaylen back into 2 guard minutes.

So, it seems like a smart idea to sign Fournier as long as the market doesn't drive his salary off a cliff, but I do think it is important to have a rotation plan, and if someone comes in, that means Smart or Fournier has to go out.

Um, nope.  Trade all 4 for a top-30 player.  THAT is the simplest way to the top.  Championship core:
Tatum
Brown
Horford
Top-30 player

There is a logic problem here.

Trades are, well trades. An exchange of value. You can "win" a trade, but it is difficult to plan to make your team better through an exchange. You mostly can remap the value you already have in a more complementary way. Very important, but it rarely creates more talent.

Langford and Nesmith have contributed almost nothing so far. But, they represent the most unrealized potential on the roster.

By playing them, the team increases its talent base from where we were last year, which is to have two almost useless young players, to where they can be, which could be starters, or important rotational players. That extra developed value is fully additive.

In the end, you may want to trade them both with some other assets for a major 3rd star. But that will just be a swap, which is the easier part. The real growth in team talent will be the part where you make players you have better, so you have the value to trade.

It is delusional to think we can just get a superstar without doing the work of building value. The franchise took a major hit by failing to do this outside of Tatum and Brown over the past two years, and it has to get back to it.

The trades are just the obvious culmination of value building. Opportunistic pickups, smart drafting, strategic use of playing time.

[Rikibellevie]

Baring the fact I Would love to support a french in our futur sucess, I don't think we will extend him. He is a very good player for scoring with regulatity-in regular- and a good teamplayer. A perfect professional. Also a professional who build his carreer in an individual and But mercantil perspective. He won't discount for a team he played 3 month for. Smart could do that. And he isn't enough athletic or have enough volume or intensity.  He won't find enough the Way to the basket in the PO where he may not be more than a rotational shooter with a production depending only about his %... Defensively he is individualy below average for a W or for a G. Still smart colectively. He is the kind of player who can be usefull to an average offensive team, scoring à lot for them. That's kind of player who get s paid.It is his big contract.

We want to be more than a team that overpay a good 6men or so. And Fournier isn't the post of our needs. Our futur at PG and C is unclear. We may wait to give this money to Timelord and hopefully to Smart next summer. I trust Smart better to complete a team of BEAL-BROWN-TATUM-HORFORD. Or in a dream scenario in 1half or 2 years a big 3 with Jokic or Embid... And we must develop Langford and Nesmith who will have a role to complement our future big3....

So the 2/3 Hayward TPE has been lost for nothing. Easy to say but it was time to move on last year TD when we had a chance. With the full Hayward TPE we could have overpay Lowry for 1 or 1+1Y giving maybe the 14th to Toronto. Don't like the last Danny move and for now neither that much CBS first one. Would be intrigued if we resign Evan.

Fun fact, Fournier's contract wouldn't impede us from extending Timelord and Smart. If you're thinking of a future in which Beal is here or Jokic or Embiid, Smart won't be part of the equation unless they're traded for... and guess what you need to do to make a trade happen? Assets and players who can be traded, so that's where Fournier would come in (or someone else and we keep Fournier).

But if you're saving money in order to sign Beal, Jokic or Embiid, which are all in the end longshots, Smart, et al. won't be part of the team... we won't have the cap space for it. At least not with Beal, haven't crunched the numbers for the 2023 free-agency... in the meantime if you don't put competent teams together, you're wasting Brown's and Tatum's time, and they're going to bolt not long after.

Some food for thought.

Yes I didn't realized Smart is UFA next year. But, stop me if I am wrong, but if we cut Grant and Edwards (or even Langford) and find à team to absorb Horfords contract before 2022 FA, we only have 68 M garenty. That give us 45M to sign Beal (like a friendly 4Y/130 begening at 30) and Smart (4Y/70 b at 15) then extend Timelord with BR if healthy. Complete with quality vet min MLE and maybe à ST with Fournier TPE. I think there is a path to have Beal and Smart.

And it isn't a good sign a player in the idea to trade him. Waiting a discount from him is absurd for me and an overpayed contract, which he could look in being our mid pack level team 6th, isn't a good chip.