Author Topic: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans  (Read 3691 times)

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Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2021, 06:41:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

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NO should hold the line.

If NO loses him, where do they go? How can they sell fans on anything? They can't hold onto AD, can't hold onto Zion, what's the point in having a franchise there?

The league's going to have to address this in the years to come. Fans are going to eventually stop supporting franchises that have no chance to compete.

Not just Anthony Davis. Chris Paul too. Both cases of long term mismanagement (aka avoidable).

It would heartbreaking to see a 3rd franchise player level talent in Zion force his way out.

I don't think they are there yet but they are on a bad track and if they do not get off this track soon, this is exactly where they will end up. And it will come down to two factors (1) mismanagement by GM (2) ownership failure to hold GM accountable (fire & replace him).

I still don’t see what Griffin has done that’s so negative.

Ingram is a very nice piece.  Lonzo is solid and should be retained.  They’ve got four extra first rounders and multiple pick swaps.  Hayes, Alexander-Walker and Lewis all have potential.

I don’t love Adams or Bledsoe, but they’re neutral-value veterans who will be $30 million worth of expiring contracts next off-season.


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Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2021, 06:53:21 PM »

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NO should hold the line.

If NO loses him, where do they go? How can they sell fans on anything? They can't hold onto AD, can't hold onto Zion, what's the point in having a franchise there?

The league's going to have to address this in the years to come. Fans are going to eventually stop supporting franchises that have no chance to compete.

Not just Anthony Davis. Chris Paul too. Both cases of long term mismanagement (aka avoidable).

It would heartbreaking to see a 3rd franchise player level talent in Zion force his way out.

I don't think they are there yet but they are on a bad track and if they do not get off this track soon, this is exactly where they will end up. And it will come down to two factors (1) mismanagement by GM (2) ownership failure to hold GM accountable (fire & replace him).

I still don’t see what Griffin has done that’s so negative.

Ingram is a very nice piece.  Lonzo is solid and should be retained.  They’ve got four extra first rounders and multiple pick swaps.  Hayes, Alexander-Walker and Lewis all have potential.

I don’t love Adams or Bledsoe, but they’re neutral-value veterans who will be $30 million worth of expiring contracts next off-season.

That is okay. We just see it differently.

I view it as

(1) pairing Zion with a center in Steven Adams who is a paint only player as incompetent. Like Giannis, Zion needs a stretch big. As an add on, I also viewed it as incompetent when Griffin drafted Jaxson Hayes to pair with Zion a year earlier. Same reasoning.
(2) pairing Zion with a PG with a very weak jumper who just failed next to a similar player in Giannis as incompetent.
(3) Building a team with multiple parts that do not fit and never had any hope of fitting as incompetent. You cannot put that many bad shooters together and expect to manage any type of coherent offense.

And

(4) I would find it utterly disgusting as a player (or a fan) to see my GM derail his own team like this. Not even stagnation. Backwards mobility. A wasted year of my career (if I am a player especially the star player like Zion) or a wasted season of viewing pleasure i(f I am the fan here) of my favourite young stars Zion & Ingram.

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2021, 06:56:54 PM »

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Griffin completely sold out the present tense for the future (by sacrificing this season for those future picks).

Well, that is fine if you only care about the future. If you care about the present, that is something that will bother you immensely.


Edit: Let me say that differently. I believe Zion & Ingram are too good too advanced to write off a season. They are too far along in their development. To not compete. To give up. To sacrifice.

I find that so hard to take. Just like I would find it so hard to take if Ainge (well CBS) cut apart this Boston team to build around Jaylen & Tatum long term and wrecked the team so badly (incompetently) that the team couldn't challenge for the playoffs and wasted a year of their careers.

I can understand it if the team was absolutely log-jammed and had no capacity to improve (lack of cap flexibility, trade assets or young talent). Especially if there was only 1 star in place there. But neither was true for NOP nor is it true of Boston.

To write off a year of their careers like that ... sits very badly with me. 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 07:07:32 PM by Who »

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2021, 08:43:27 PM »

Offline Kiorrik

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Anyone else still hesitant to support a franchise's decision to build around Zion?

This comes 100% from injury concerns btw.

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2021, 09:24:49 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Out of NO and straight to Lebron

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2021, 09:26:31 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Anyone else still hesitant to support a franchise's decision to build around Zion?

This comes 100% from injury concerns btw.

His weight worries me as well.  I worry he could get injuried

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2021, 09:32:48 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Quote
Anyone else still hesitant to support a franchise's decision to build around Zion?

This comes 100% from injury concerns btw.

His weight worries me as well.  I worry he could get injuried


Yup…..I predict he ll have a impactful,  but short star career,  his mass will destroy his back , knees and hips in short order .

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #82 on: June 18, 2021, 03:05:52 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Anyone else still hesitant to support a franchise's decision to build around Zion?

This comes 100% from injury concerns btw.

Yeah, I'm with you. 

If I were Brad and got offered a trade of Zion for Tatum straight up, I don't think I'd take it.  Zion is a hell of a talent, but I'm not convinced he'll the guy you build a franchise around.  Time will tell I suppose.

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2021, 06:37:17 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Unless it's his wife not worried if a guy's family wants him somewhere else. Sometimes people like being away from relatives. It can be better to visit family in another state than live in the same city as that family.

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #84 on: June 18, 2021, 06:39:46 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Griffin completely sold out the present tense for the future (by sacrificing this season for those future picks).

Well, that is fine if you only care about the future. If you care about the present, that is something that will bother you immensely.


Edit: Let me say that differently. I believe Zion & Ingram are too good too advanced to write off a season. They are too far along in their development. To not compete. To give up. To sacrifice.

I find that so hard to take. Just like I would find it so hard to take if Ainge (well CBS) cut apart this Boston team to build around Jaylen & Tatum long term and wrecked the team so badly (incompetently) that the team couldn't challenge for the playoffs and wasted a year of their careers.

I can understand it if the team was absolutely log-jammed and had no capacity to improve (lack of cap flexibility, trade assets or young talent). Especially if there was only 1 star in place there. But neither was true for NOP nor is it true of Boston.

To write off a year of their careers like that ... sits very badly with me.
I just think you believe Zion is further along then he is and that is clouding your judgment on this one.  Zion is still only 20 years old.  He is a 2nd year player.  He is terrible defensively.  His basketball IQ is nearly non-existent.  He has no offensive range and is only ok as a rebounder and passer.  You put him with the ball in the paint and he bullies people, but that is all he is at this point.  He isn't farther along than that.  His potential is immense, but it is still just mostly potential.  Ingram is obviously further along at year 5 and age 23, but he still isn't in his prime either. 

By doing what you are suggesting, you are actually hurting the long term possibilities of the Pelicans.  They still need more to really reach contender status.  By trying to compete this year by keeping Holiday, they are in fact further away from creating a title contender because it harms their draft status and they wouldn't have the future picks they got from trading Holiday.  So, yes, Adams and Bledsoe aren't a good fit with Zion, but they aren't going to be around long term (and Holiday wasn't a good fit with him either). 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Zion's Family Wants him Out of New Orleans
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2021, 03:12:31 AM »

Offline ozgod

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That said, if young star players are going to start forcing their way out before their rookie deals are even up, the NBA is in a very precarious spot.

Why should small market teams feel that they will ever be able to obtain and hold onto young star players?

Does the NBA care? 

Easy to fix. Get rid of maximum contracts. Get rid of the draft. Get rid of rookie scale contracts. Keep the salary cap.

Players will follow the money. Talent will be better distributed throughout the league. Good for fans.

Good management will matter more so competence will be a bigger deciding factor in outcomes which is ideal.

And players have more freedom over choosing where they want to play which is ideal for them.

Fans no longer have to watch tanking teams because without the draft there is no upside to tanking. So teams are always competing and trying their best to win. Good for fans.

Okay for owners. More difficult in that you have to hire better front office personnel and hold them accountable to a better degree. But manageable. For all the benefits for players and fans? It is doable.


I assume the NBAPA would not go for this because it would inevitably place a ton of downward pressure on the average annual earnings of the vast majority of players.

Other than the salary cap piece (and the fact that trades don't happen, instead if a club wants another player they pay a transfer fee and the contract is torn up and a new one is signed by the player with their new club), isn't that the model that European (or professional) soccer uses? Just pay them as much as you're willing to and there's no draft or other restraints on player earnings or mobility, other than having a team willing to pay the money to acquire them?

But if you put a salary cap on that, you would have a scenario where a few players are getting paid ridiculous amounts of money at the top and the rest of them are getting paid peanuts.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D