Author Topic: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas  (Read 10341 times)

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Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2021, 01:56:10 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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obviously that person has no clue about basketball whatsoever.

Disagree, I thought the video was quite good. TP jambr.

Thanks footey - and back at you. I think slam was talking about Roy's link, not my video, though...at least I hope so  :)

Edit: I can see why you thought they might have been the same person by my 'this guy' wording in my response. I made a small edit to differentiate them.
I was commenting on the info Roy provided, not the video

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2021, 02:07:55 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I wouldn’t mind the Knick’s trade idea, if it was with only one first round pick attached. There is value in getting rid of a $36M contract next season, and potentially $37.6M in ‘22/23, and not bringing back any salary. It would give Brad a chance to reset the team by bringing in higher quality role players. I'm not sure what the salary cap situation would look like in this scenario, but I like the idea of the team having flexibility in trades down the line by having players in the $8-12M range.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2021, 02:13:44 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I wouldn’t mind the Knick’s trade idea, if it was with only one first round pick attached. There is value in getting rid of a $36M contract next season, and potentially $37.6M in ‘22/23, and not bringing back any salary. It would give Brad a chance to reset the team by bringing in higher quality role players. I'm not sure what the salary cap situation would look like in this scenario, but I like the idea of the team having flexibility in trades down the line by having players in the $8-12M range.
except if the Knicks do that trade it means they struck out in free agency and in that Walker actually has real value to them such that I actually think it would cost them a pick, not the other way around.  Walker doesn't have positive value to a lot of teams, but he does to some teams.  The Knicks, I think, are one of those teams.  I think the Clippers might be as well, especially if they flame out against the Jazz or Suns. 
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Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2021, 02:40:12 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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I wouldn’t mind the Knick’s trade idea, if it was with only one first round pick attached. There is value in getting rid of a $36M contract next season, and potentially $37.6M in ‘22/23, and not bringing back any salary. It would give Brad a chance to reset the team by bringing in higher quality role players. I'm not sure what the salary cap situation would look like in this scenario, but I like the idea of the team having flexibility in trades down the line by having players in the $8-12M range.
except if the Knicks do that trade it means they struck out in free agency and in that Walker actually has real value to them such that I actually think it would cost them a pick, not the other way around.  Walker doesn't have positive value to a lot of teams, but he does to some teams.  The Knicks, I think, are one of those teams.  I think the Clippers might be as well, especially if they flame out against the Jazz or Suns.

I don’t often agree with Moranis it seems, but this is generally the correct way to look at it.  Kemba’s value will be different to different teams.  The Knicks are going to try to get a significant upgrade to PG with their cap room.  That might be Paul, it might be Ball, but it could also be someone acquired through a trade, and Kemba is an obvious option, jokes aside about using fit with Thibs.  He will have value to them.  He may have value to the Suns if Paul leaves.  He might be someone the Clippers like (although I don’t think there’s a trade fit there, personally).

The other thing that gets lost in the discussion about trading Kemba is that the trade has to make sense for the Celtics.  They’re over the cap this year, so dumping Kemba doesn’t get you cap space.  Would you rather have Kemba and no cap space, or no Kemba, no cap space, and give up 1-2 draft picks, as the absurd Knicks trade in this article suggests?  I think the answer should be pretty obvious.  Do people want one year of Thaddeus Young so badly that they’re willing to give up a pick AND take on bad money just to move from Kemba? 

The Celtics shouldn’t trade Kemba just for the sake of trading him.  You don’t dump a guy because he’s not providing max contract value if he’s still providing significant value of some sort.  Most likely Kemba will be a Celtic next year.  Maybe he gets moved to a team with a different max contract that also isn’t living up to his deal, such as Porzingis.  Maybe someone disagrees that he’s a negative asset and wants to give us something of value.  But attach 1-2 picks to Kemba to move him — to what end?  How is that going to help the Celtics going forward?  Is there someone at the full MLE who’s that much better than Kemba and isn’t available at the taxpayer MLE that it’s worth it?  I highly doubt it.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2021, 02:49:11 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The other thing that gets lost in the discussion about trading Kemba is that the trade has to make sense for the Celtics.  They’re over the cap this year, so dumping Kemba doesn’t get you cap space.  Would you rather have Kemba and no cap space, or no Kemba, no cap space, and give up 1-2 draft picks, as the absurd Knicks trade in this article suggests?  I think the answer should be pretty obvious.  Do people want one year of Thaddeus Young so badly that they’re willing to give up a pick AND take on bad money just to move from Kemba?

Not sure I follow this part.  If we trade Kemba to the Knicks and take back little or nothing, we get a TPE which can be used to bring in a player (like we did with Fournier).  Getting to use the TPE is not a given but we wouldn't be hard capped so we could bring in salary assuming we find a deal.

I would probably rather get real players for Kemba but a TPE is not nothing.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2021, 03:08:48 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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The other thing that gets lost in the discussion about trading Kemba is that the trade has to make sense for the Celtics.  They’re over the cap this year, so dumping Kemba doesn’t get you cap space.  Would you rather have Kemba and no cap space, or no Kemba, no cap space, and give up 1-2 draft picks, as the absurd Knicks trade in this article suggests?  I think the answer should be pretty obvious.  Do people want one year of Thaddeus Young so badly that they’re willing to give up a pick AND take on bad money just to move from Kemba?

Not sure I follow this part.  If we trade Kemba to the Knicks and take back little or nothing, we get a TPE which can be used to bring in a player (like we did with Fournier).  Getting to use the TPE is not a given but we wouldn't be hard capped so we could bring in salary assuming we find a deal.

I would probably rather get real players for Kemba but a TPE is not nothing.

After trading multiple picks to move Kemba, what assets are you trading to acquire someone with that TPE?  The Hayward TPE cost 2 2nds to acquire, but these articles are talking about multiple 1sts to lose Kemba — such a TPE clearly isn’t worth that cost.  Also, the Hayward TPE had value to the Celtics because it was the TPE or just let Hayward go.  Here the choice is to have a productive but overpaid player or a TPE.  It’s pretty clear where that should come out on the scales of value.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2021, 03:09:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I wouldn’t mind the Knick’s trade idea, if it was with only one first round pick attached. There is value in getting rid of a $36M contract next season, and potentially $37.6M in ‘22/23, and not bringing back any salary. It would give Brad a chance to reset the team by bringing in higher quality role players. I'm not sure what the salary cap situation would look like in this scenario, but I like the idea of the team having flexibility in trades down the line by having players in the $8-12M range.
Completely disagree about salary dumping Kemba, but maybe it's because I do know what the salary cap situation would look like. The Celtics wouldn't have room to sign anyone. And if you want trade flexibility, you want to keep Kemba's contract for salary matching purposes in case a major star making major money becomes available via trade.

Salary dumping Kemba only hurts this team, IMHO. If you are trading Kemba, you want a comparable or better player coming back.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2021, 03:49:05 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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I think it would be inaccurate to assume that there aren't say...two teams who would make an "effort" to get Walker.

I don't think he's a "salary dump", but, he is almost a salary dump as the salary+injury+ viable years left are in the zone.

The trading partner will have leverage, thus an asset will accompany Walker in a deal.

An exercise:

The J's need some help, can a Walker deal bring that "help."

I'm in favor of Walker leaving at some point as he doesn't seem to match with the J's.

Smart (if he's here)
Brown
Tatum
?
Robert/Thompson

Not sure if the Walker deal would yield the the PF with shooting ability, thus...

If the PF thing is out? What does Stevens want in a Walker deal beside cap relief?

From what I've read the Knicks might be a possibility, but, the team taking Walker has leverage and will get "something."


Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2021, 04:45:30 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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The other thing that gets lost in the discussion about trading Kemba is that the trade has to make sense for the Celtics.  They’re over the cap this year, so dumping Kemba doesn’t get you cap space.  Would you rather have Kemba and no cap space, or no Kemba, no cap space, and give up 1-2 draft picks, as the absurd Knicks trade in this article suggests?  I think the answer should be pretty obvious.  Do people want one year of Thaddeus Young so badly that they’re willing to give up a pick AND take on bad money just to move from Kemba?

Not sure I follow this part.  If we trade Kemba to the Knicks and take back little or nothing, we get a TPE which can be used to bring in a player (like we did with Fournier).  Getting to use the TPE is not a given but we wouldn't be hard capped so we could bring in salary assuming we find a deal.

I would probably rather get real players for Kemba but a TPE is not nothing.

After trading multiple picks to move Kemba, what assets are you trading to acquire someone with that TPE?  The Hayward TPE cost 2 2nds to acquire, but these articles are talking about multiple 1sts to lose Kemba — such a TPE clearly isn’t worth that cost.  Also, the Hayward TPE had value to the Celtics because it was the TPE or just let Hayward go.  Here the choice is to have a productive but overpaid player or a TPE.  It’s pretty clear where that should come out on the scales of value.

I don't disagree.  I would not trade Kemba to the Knicks if we had to add in first round picks and still get nothing back.  In that case, I would keep Kemba.  I think a more realistic trade is that the Knicks send back a couple of minor pieces such as Kevin Knox and we send them Kemba.  Then we get a TPE.  At worst, it is Kemba and swapping second round picks or something like that in which case it is very much like the Hayward deal.  There is no reason to trade Kemba by attaching first round picks and getting nothing back but a TPE.  I do not believe that will ever be considered by the Celtics.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2021, 04:54:21 PM »

Offline liam

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2021, 05:12:22 PM »

Online 86MaxwellSmart

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if Kemba has negative value, keep him until the trade deadline.... Nowhere to go but up.
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Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2021, 05:24:35 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!

This would be an atrocious trade.  Let's not make ourselves more like the Cavs.

But more seriously, I don't think this makes us better, and I don't see how the Celtics afford to keep Sexton on his new deal in a year with Love on the roster for two more years.  If saving money is a supposed motivation for trading Kemba, this deal is incongruous with that.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2021, 05:36:07 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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"Celtics get: Kevin Love, Larry Nance Jr., Collin Sexton
Cavaliers get: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, 2021 first-round pick"

I saw this proposal on another site. It totally changes both teams but I'm not sure if either gets better and I would hate to see TIMELORD go!
we give up the 3 best players and a first?  was that the Cavs' site?

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2021, 05:42:38 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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if Kemba has negative value, keep him until the trade deadline.... Nowhere to go but up.

   Jees. You make a good point. Most of the teams left now would probably love to have  Kemba on their team now even if it was off the bench. Then it’s not attaching a first to get out of a deal but maybe trading for expirings and WE get the pick.

Re: NBC Sports Boston Kemba Ideas
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2021, 05:49:18 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I get that this would get turned down but I think we need an all-around PG who can distribute the ball, another above average, big wing and Kemba off the team.

My idea is something like:

Boston gets: Malcom Brogdon, Jerami Grant, Killian Hayes

Pistons get: Marcus Smart, TJ Warren, Jrue Holiday, Romeo Langford & our 2022 1st

Pacers get: Kemba & Josh Jackson

Salaries work but again I think this would get shot down by the Pacers and Pistons pretty hard even though it's not that crazy

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfpvpodn