Author Topic: Which team's bench would you want?  (Read 3687 times)

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Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2021, 07:40:36 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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I'd love to see our actual bench at full strength.  We do have two starter quality players on it in Fournier and Thompson.  We've unfortunately had zero games with our top 7 players healthy.  It's not better than the Lakers, because when healthy that bench includes Gasol now that Drummond is in town, but I think #6-9 in our healthy rotation is underrated because so often that rotation has actually consisted of players in the #10-13 range on our roster, and we saw last night how significant that difference can be.

2 Starters and the rest G leaguers is not good enough.
I think it's enough in an 8 man rotation, which is all that really matters in the playoffs. Fournier-Thompson-Pritchard is pretty solid.

Until one of those guys misses a game/series due to Covid Protocol or injury  and then the C’s have no quality Bench players. Too soon to judge a Romeo, but Semi, Grant, Kornet, Wagner, Nesmith are 3rd string bench players. Edwards, Tacko, and Waters don’t belong on an NBA roster.  That’s most of the roster. Not good...

Sure, but welcome to the NBA playoffs of late.  The teams that win are generally the healthiest.  The Lakers last year had very few missed games for their rotation players, and a good chunk of them were in the first round when Rondo was out and they didn’t need him.  The year before the Raptors had one game missed for the entire postseason from their top 8 players.  Golden State had to overcome Steph missing some games the prior season, but that was a superteam so they could withstand the loss, and the year before they didn’t have such health issues when they won.  Same goes with Cleveland, when they snuck past the Warriors — one missed game for their top 7.

The teams that win the titles aren’t outliers in depth, they’re outliers in health.  You don’t win based on your 9th and 10th men (much less 11-15). You lose because you’re missing too many games from your top 7-8.

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2021, 08:20:45 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Anyone but ours....

I like the Bucks, Clippers and Jazz but our bench is literally a bunch of G league level talent and this hurt us immensely earlier in the year.

Our current bench, if Time Lord is starting, is:

Thompson
Fournier
Langford
Pritchard
Grant

First two guys are nearly starters and would start on a weaker team. Very solid bench players. The main problem we have is the youth of the next three guys.

Opinions vary on Romeo, but I think his defense is already very good and will fit us perfectly. His offense will be limited this year, but I trust him to make simple plays. I really like his potential.

Other benches are better for their teams, and probably in general - Utah and the Lakers are coming up for good reason - but we really haven’t seen our bench unit yet. The other night when the bench gave us 10 points we were without Fournier and Time Lord. Not a fair measurement.

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2021, 08:41:05 PM »

Offline liam

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Anyone but ours....

I like the Bucks, Clippers and Jazz but our bench is literally a bunch of G league level talent and this hurt us immensely earlier in the year.

Our current bench, if Time Lord is starting, is:

Thompson
Fournier
Langford
Pritchard
Grant

First two guys are nearly starters and would start on a weaker team. Very solid bench players. The main problem we have is the youth of the next three guys.

Opinions vary on Romeo, but I think his defense is already very good and will fit us perfectly. His offense will be limited this year, but I trust him to make simple plays. I really like his potential.

Other benches are better for their teams, and probably in general - Utah and the Lakers are coming up for good reason - but we really haven’t seen our bench unit yet. The other night when the bench gave us 10 points we were without Fournier and Time Lord. Not a fair measurement.

Thompson
Fournier
Langford
Pritchard
Grant
Parker

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2021, 07:59:59 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Our current bench, if Time Lord is starting, is:

Thompson
Fournier
Langford
Pritchard
Grant

First two guys are nearly starters and would start on a weaker team. Very solid bench players. The main problem we have is the youth of the next three guys.

Opinions vary on Romeo, but I think his defense is already very good and will fit us perfectly. His offense will be limited this year, but I trust him to make simple plays. I really like his potential.

Other benches are better for their teams, and probably in general - Utah and the Lakers are coming up for good reason - but we really haven’t seen our bench unit yet. The other night when the bench gave us 10 points we were without Fournier and Time Lord. No

The bench has a been a problem all year.

Fournier should help a lot.

Romeo can play D but I think people are very optimistic about his offense.   

Grant is pathetic and does not produce for minutes played.  He has been a little better recently.   But he is a product of the lineups he plays with not a big impact guy.   He does not rebound well, can't rim protect and is constantly targeted by the other team as a weak spot.  He can match up ok against other slow guys like Joker but more athletic guys blow by him like he isn't there.

Pritch just had a good game but prior to that he was hitting the rookie wall.

Your post sounds like your trying to talk yourself into to liking the bench.  Did it work?

Because the last few teams we played against had guys out that would bolster their benches here and there.

Also, the bench was terrible  earlier in the year and so is this bench without Fournier. That was a big mistake by Ainge to ignore the need.  I don't think he would get a pass.

This does not even mention nor do you the G league level talent guys on our bench that belong more in Maine than the NBA.  There are literally, four to five guys that you ignore that hang like an albatross with nothing to help the team other than practice bodies.

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2021, 08:58:16 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Our current bench, if Time Lord is starting, is:

Thompson
Fournier
Langford
Pritchard
Grant

First two guys are nearly starters and would start on a weaker team. Very solid bench players. The main problem we have is the youth of the next three guys.

Opinions vary on Romeo, but I think his defense is already very good and will fit us perfectly. His offense will be limited this year, but I trust him to make simple plays. I really like his potential.

Other benches are better for their teams, and probably in general - Utah and the Lakers are coming up for good reason - but we really haven’t seen our bench unit yet. The other night when the bench gave us 10 points we were without Fournier and Time Lord. No

The bench has a been a problem all year.

Fournier should help a lot.

Romeo can play D but I think people are very optimistic about his offense.   

Grant is pathetic and does not produce for minutes played.  He has been a little better recently.   But he is a product of the lineups he plays with not a big impact guy.   He does not rebound well, can't rim protect and is constantly targeted by the other team as a weak spot.  He can match up ok against other slow guys like Joker but more athletic guys blow by him like he isn't there.

Pritch just had a good game but prior to that he was hitting the rookie wall.

Your post sounds like your trying to talk yourself into to liking the bench.  Did it work?

Because the last few teams we played against had guys out that would bolster their benches here and there.

Also, the bench was terrible  earlier in the year and so is this bench without Fournier. That was a big mistake by Ainge to ignore the need.  I don't think he would get a pass.

This does not even mention nor do you the G league level talent guys on our bench that belong more in Maine than the NBA.  There are literally, four to five guys that you ignore that hang like an albatross with nothing to help the team other than practice bodies.

I’ll ignore the personal stuff. Come on.

On the substance, you can’t accurately evaluate the bench we have now based on problems earlier in the year.  For one, Fournier wasn’t there. We added a 6’7” wing who’s an established 20-point scorer with good efficiency. That’s a big deal. And, when you add him to the rotation you also get to subtract a bad player like Teague or Javonte. It’s a two for one. Judging what “the bench” can give you w/out considering it’s best player is like evaluating what the starters can give you w/out Tatum.

Langford also wasn’t there. You seem to acknowledge he’s a plus defender. If he’s in a lineup with Fournier, one of the Js, and Thompson or Time Lord, something that should happen regularly, he doesn’t *need* to score a lot. Hit open threes and attack closeouts is plenty. His offense will come in the future, but for now, again, it’s a two for one: swap a bad or iffy player for a good one.

As for the rest, of course we don’t have the best bench in the league. I’m not saying that. We could use a couple more veteran role players.

I am saying it’s wrong to judge this bench by the first part of the year, and I think it’s obvious why. It’s not an atrocity - or at least it’s too early to say, and there’s good reason to expect better things.

If we go deeper, into players at the end of the bench, well, show me a team with good players at the 11-15 spots. Those are players with niche skills or otherwise limited players that you only want to use for short minutes and ideally never in the playoffs.
 

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2021, 10:28:12 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I’ll ignore the personal stuff. Come on.

What are you talking about?  I just pointed out that you can't ignore the bad parts of the bench with the good, that was not personal.  Disagreeing with you is not a personal attack, I agree with a lot of what you say.

You don't get to judge half the bench, there are not two halves of the bench...

Quote
I am saying it’s wrong to judge this bench by the first part of the year, and I think it’s obvious why. It’s not an atrocity - or at least it’s too early to say, and there’s good reason to expect better things.

I think it's fair game on the earlier in the year stuff because it definitely affected us as a team and put a lot of extra miles and frustration on the J's.   I agree it is too early to judge what remains.   But Ainge has kind of ignored this the last few years and wanted to see what "his" guys could do, the answer was not a good one in terms of the assessment.   I do hold him accountable and I say that as a big Ainge supporter.   I think he realized this and tried to adjust.  I hope it works out.


You judge a season on it's merits, there are not two halves of a season....


Quote
If we go deeper, into players at the end of the bench, well, show me a team with good players at the 11-15 spots. Those are players with niche skills or otherwise limited players that you only want to use for short minutes and ideally never in the playoffs.

Injuries happen, a lot.   You need an extra solid bench because of Covid this year.   Losing Hayward hurt us last year and the people we called to replace him were crap.   It's as you say the reality of a NBA roster.   This of course, is impossible to predict.   I advocate for a strong bench for this very reason.

I think getting Jabari was another move to shore up the bench and I would use that to illustrate that Ainge must share that view now and the losing the game in the Laker game must have opened some eyes.

The great things is upgrading the bench is easier than starters.   I wanted us to get a bench scorer and a PF and Ainge has now done that with Fournier and Parker.  I know I had zero to do with him doing that, but I hope it works out as these were two glaring needs.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 11:43:10 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2021, 11:55:50 AM »

Offline tstorey_97

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TP to Roy for post here. I understand that the goal is to "replace" the Celtic's bench with Lakers, Spurs or whomever and thanks to all for their analysis.

In the playoff reality, Stevens will not tolerate poor defensive play on the part of his bench...anywhere, thus, let's see who gets minutes.

Thompson has played in 80+ playoff games.
Fournier would start for numerous other NBA teams.

Semi has played in 36 playoff games and has more offense than Grant which isn't saying that much.

Grant played in 17 playoff games in the bubble and has little offense.

Langford had 45 minutes of playoff experience in the bubble playoffs. Stevens gives him minutes whenever possible

Pritchard is 40.8% from three and 87% from the line with an above average handle. I don't know how many minutes Brad will give him in the playoffs. Wish we still had Teague. In college and high school Pritchard has played in 60 playoff/championship games...in um...Oregon.

With the top 7 players getting "more minutes" the next group will be getting less.

The only bench I didn't see was the Nets. Injury and retirement (Aldridge) riddled, but not a bad bunch after the top benches mention in this thread.




 

Re: Which team's bench would you want?
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2021, 02:41:54 PM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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The Houston Rockets or the Boston Celtics bench before the trade deadline because some times you need to go through hell to appreciate what you have/had.