Author Topic: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?  (Read 14160 times)

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Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2021, 02:31:54 PM »

Offline DarrenTillis

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Also, Brad Daugherty was Cleveland’s No 1 pick in 86.  They needed or wanted a starting center. I think Daugherty was a skilled 7 footer.  He played with Jordan a UNC.
as the story goes, Red told the Cleveland rep at the draft drawing that if they didn't take Daugherty, he would which was his masterful way of getting Bias to drop to him at #2.

Cleveland never should've had that pick in the first place.  The Sixers made a horrible trade out of the slot.
anything bad for the Sixers always brings me joy. 

Cleveland was its own worst enemy.  how incompetent does a franchise have to be to have the NBA create a rule to prevent blatant incompetence and name it after the owner?  The Stepien rule lives on to this day.

The Cavs were definitely the most egregious offenders, but teams back then simply (and stupidly) did not value draft picks the same way that they do today.  The C's getting the Bias pick for Gerald Henderson and the Lakers getting the #1 overall pick (Magic Johnson) from the Jazz as part of a trade package for an aging, and rapidly declining, Gail Goodrich are two of many examples.

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2021, 02:57:20 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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One thing that always takes me down from fantasizing what might have been is that he was drafted #2.

People act like he was that next sure thing, a generational prospect, that can't miss franchise cornerstone, etc.,  but he was drafted #2.  Guys that are that clearly a superstar usually don't get drafted #2.

Now sure this was the era where if there's an All-Star caliber Center available, that's who you take, '86 was in the middle of a 5 year stretch of Centers getting drafted #1, along with most of the top few picks being either a C or PF.  So maybe Bias just didn't fit the right mold to go #1.  Maybe he was viewed as Durant here, a generational talent but the guy ahead of him had more appeal just because he was a Center.  (But also think Jordan's explosion the previous year would help shatter that glass ceiling and have people start searching for that next Jordan, if he really was supposed to be the next Jordan).

And while sure there's some studs in the 80's near the top of the draft not drafted #1 (Jordan, Dominique, Isiah), but there's more non studs by far.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was Danny Manning or Wayman Tisdale or Danny Ferry or Armen Gilliam or Rodney McCray or Xavier McDaniel, etc. who was drafted by the Celtics but had an untimely demise and then we'd see them romanticized the same way (only with the PF compared more to Barkley/Malone than Jordan).

Maybe there was a lot of debate of who should go #1, and maybe a lot of other franchises would have actually drafted Bias #1.  There was debut that Carmelo should be drafted over LeBron, that Emeka Okafor should be drafted over Howard, that Aldridge should be drafted over Bargnani, that Durant should be drafted over Oden, that Ball should be drafted over Fultz, that Camby should be drafted over Iverson, etc.  Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.


But the fact that he went #2 definitely makes me question how much of a generational talent he really was at the time.  And if there was that buzz, was it just normal rookie hype (like is often seen with guys like Andrew Wiggins, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, etc.)?

Just on the hype train, here's a few articles calling Andrew Wiggins the next LeBron:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/basketball-phenomenon-andrew-wiggins-dubbed-the-best-prospect-since-lebron-james/news-story/024e639ff57e3a5c2ac15de9522384b1

https://www.businessinsider.com/andrew-wiggins-next-lebron-2013-5


Just because people are saying it, doesn't make it true.


Just the pessimist in me.
Jordan went #3......

Of course no one knows for sure. Perhaps Bias would have been stalled by injury. Or maybe he would have been a bigger version of Jordan.

He was a monster. The best athlete in college basketball at 6'8. He was a better athlete than Wiggins, much better body, and was the most dominant player in the country's best conference. There's no such thing as a guarantee, but Bias was about as close as you can get, imo.

Celtics fans were on top of the world. Newly minted 16th title, another Bird MVP, and then we add a kid who looks like he can keep it going well into the 90s, then 2 days later it felt like it was all crashing down.


Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2021, 02:58:08 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Len Bias = LeBron James...exact same player
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Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2021, 03:12:31 PM »

Online Silas

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Len Bias = LeBron James...exact same player

As much as I liked Bias, I’m not sure I would say he was the same player as Lebron. I would compare him to Jordan but bigger and stronger.   
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 03:31:08 PM by Silas »
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Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2021, 03:48:33 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Len Bias = LeBron James...exact same player

As much as I liked Bias, I’m not sure I would say he was the same player as Lebron. I would compare him to Jordan but bigger and stronger.   

I don't know, James might be a decent comparison.

"James is a 6'8 245-250 pound chiseled speciman with a 40 inch vertical leap. Bias was a 6'8 220-225 pound muscular Adonis with the same 40 inch vertical."
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Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2021, 03:50:00 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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And the next year we drafted Reggie Lewis

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2021, 03:51:13 PM »

Offline gift

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Bias was a beast.  Any comparisons to one-dimensional or otherwise limited college stars like Walter Berry or Armen Gilliam are badly misplaced.  Closest comp I always have carried in my mind is Dominique Wilkins.  His Georgia teams were significantly worse than Maryland's Bias-led teams, but that didn't stop 'Nique from becoming an elite NBA player. 

I don't think Bias would have been quite as prolific offensively as Wilkins (perhaps 23-25 PPG in his prime as opposed to 28-30 PPG like Wilkins), but I think he would have been a perennial all-star (assuming he was not dealing with an ongoing drug problem, in which case he might have had a Roy Tarpley-type career).   

I think Wilkins is a good comp and I'm surprised I haven't heard it before.

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2021, 04:08:14 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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This hurt the franchise quite a bit.  We had traded Gerald Henderson for the pick.  He was going to add youth to a win now team (still the Bird era) while being the future.  Impossible to say if he would have been as good as James Worthy but he was that kind of a prospect.  I would say that barring drug/alcohol issues, it is likely he would have been that good.

He had 4 years of college to gage his potential as a pro.  Not like these days where you only have 1 year.  You had much better sense of how good a player would be but still, not possible to know for sure.

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2021, 04:26:09 PM »

Online Silas

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This hurt the franchise quite a bit.  We had traded Gerald Henderson for the pick.  He was going to add youth to a win now team (still the Bird era) while being the future.  Impossible to say if he would have been as good as James Worthy but he was that kind of a prospect.  I would say that barring drug/alcohol issues, it is likely he would have been that good.

He had 4 years of college to gage his potential as a pro.  Not like these days where you only have 1 year.  You had much better sense of how good a player would be but still, not possible to know for sure.

I don’t see the Worthy comparison.  I remember Worthy as a slasher not a jump shooter like Bias, although Bias was a hell of a slasher too. 
I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened.   -  Mark Twain

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2021, 05:33:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Len Bias = LeBron James...exact same player

As much as I liked Bias, I’m not sure I would say he was the same player as Lebron. I would compare him to Jordan but bigger and stronger.   

I don't know, James might be a decent comparison.

"James is a 6'8 245-250 pound chiseled speciman with a 40 inch vertical leap. Bias was a 6'8 220-225 pound muscular Adonis with the same 40 inch vertical."

Lebron is a superb passer; it’s probably his best skill.  Bias didn’t show that.


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Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2021, 05:59:13 PM »

Offline Big333223

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There's no way to know what he could've been but I do feel very confident in saying this: If Bias had survived, the Celtics win the championship in '87. That kills me.

I think this is pretty wild: I remember where I was when I found out Len Bias died of an overdose. Probably there are lots of older guys that can say that but I was born in '88. I still remember exactly where I was when I found out:

I was 14, the summer of 2002. After the Celtics made the ECFinals, I bought a Boston Celtics Encyclopedia. A history of the team. I was in the back seat of my parents car, headed to my grandmother's house, when I got to 1986 and the championship and then the part about Bias. I was shocked that something like that could've happened.
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Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2021, 05:59:16 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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For fun or self inflicted pain...

https://youtu.be/F6V9yhWarP4
https://youtu.be/wdu-Vt3x6gA

Sigh, Bias and Lewis would have provided a lot of great basketball.  :'( 

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2021, 06:04:01 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Len Bias = LeBron James...exact same player

As much as I liked Bias, I’m not sure I would say he was the same player as Lebron. I would compare him to Jordan but bigger and stronger.   

I don't know, James might be a decent comparison.

"James is a 6'8 245-250 pound chiseled speciman with a 40 inch vertical leap. Bias was a 6'8 220-225 pound muscular Adonis with the same 40 inch vertical."

Lebron is a superb passer; it’s probably his best skill.  Bias didn’t show that.

True, I see the comparison though.  His size, strength, and athleticism for his era was similar to Lebron.  I suspect he would have been an annual all star, not Lebron though.

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2021, 06:39:53 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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BETTER!!!!

Re: Is Len Bias really as good as Bill Simmons says he is?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2021, 06:45:34 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Len Bias was a MONSTER!!!!! The 20/20 nights he would've had would have blown people away. MJ who!?!?

He worked Auerbachs bball camps in DC.

They had their eye on him for a long time.

Would've prolonged all of the Big 3's careers and would've made MJ just a great player and not even close to the GOAT, which he and Bron Bron aren't anyway. (Russ, no doubt!!!!)