Could Langford be a player?

[RockinRyA]

In fairness, Grant was our best defender vs Bam in last season's playoffs. I'm disappointed in his development this season, but feel short stints as small ball 5, rather than back up 4, is optimal use of his skill set.  Poor man's PJ Tucker circa 3-4 years ago. Thoughts?

I think I would like to buy what your smoking JK

Let's look at his stats:

Grant scored 3 points was a -6 and Bam scored 18 points and was +12  in game 1
Grant scored 0 points was a +9 and Bam scored 21 points and was +8  in game 2
Grant scored 5 points was a -11 and Bam scored 27 points and was +1  in game 3
Grant scored 0  points was a +/- 0 and Bam scored 20 points and was +8  in game 4
Grant scored 0 points was a -3 and Bam scored 15 points and was -13  in game 5
Grant scored 0 points was a +4 and Bam scored 32 points and was +/- 0   in game  6

What does all this mean?   Grant is completely dependent on his team mates how his +/- is as he adds almost nothing statistically during a game.   Oh, he has done well here or there but most of the time his contributions are nil.  He well small ball 5 one game last year against LA but most of the time when he plays C it's let's build a blowout for the other team.    Him being able to play the 5 is pretty much a myth.   Bam killed us and he killed Grant too.

Here is the head to head stats.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1628389&VsPlayerID=1629684

Grant historcally is  holding him to 19 PPG  4.5 APG and 9.5 RPG  on 50% shooting.

This shows me he was not that good of a matchup even though the two have a long and storied history ( high schools and college rivals).  He is too small and does not have the athletic ability to guard BAM.  The same was true of Theis to a large extent.

We should be looking to move on, not experiment with him at the five,  it was and is a complete and utter fantasy that he can guards fives or even fours.  Your asking for the other center to go off.  He also can't rim protect or rebound enough at either position.   

He is ranked 452 with a PIE of 4 this year out of the whole league.  Player Impact Estimate aka PIE is a metric to gauge a player’s all-around contribution to the game. Almost all statistical categories in the box score are involved in the PIE formula.

PIE Formula=(PTS + FGM + FTM – FGA – FTA + Deff.REB + Off.REB/2 + AST + STL + BLK/2 – PF – TO) / (Game.PTS + Game.FGM + Game.FTM – Game.FGA – Game.FTA + Game.Deff.REB + Game.Off.REB/2 + Game.AST + Game.STL + Game.BLK/2 – Game.PF – Game.TO)

The reason we stink is we have low level talent on half our roster.   I believe if we upgrade the Grant Williams, Semi, Carsen  Edwards, Waters and Tacko Fall, Kornet and add Mo Wagner to the list it would help our depth considerably.  It's sad he is a good guy and a team mates but those are ok if they contribute to the team effort but cost you if they do not.  I use Grant as an example, be honest were you one of the folks who thought he could start?

I think fixing this would be the first step.   Danny has been ruthless in the past and cut throat but he seems to love these young guys.   One would think the GM who cold heartedly dealt Perk, PP and KG would still do what he has to do.

looking at raw numbers is pretty laughable. The commentators and advance stats all pointed out that the best lineup vs the heat was the one with Williams at the 5. Anyone who isn't dumb should know by now that raw +/- is pretty garbage. Also given that Bam played more minutes than GWill, there would be a lot of time he isnt guarded by Grant. He destroyed Theis whenever they matched up, even in short spurts. We realized this too late and it cost us the series.

[footey]

In fairness, Grant was our best defender vs Bam in last season's playoffs. I'm disappointed in his development this season, but feel short stints as small ball 5, rather than back up 4, is optimal use of his skill set.  Poor man's PJ Tucker circa 3-4 years ago. Thoughts?

I think I would like to buy what your smoking JK

Let's look at his stats:

Grant scored 3 points was a -6 and Bam scored 18 points and was +12  in game 1
Grant scored 0 points was a +9 and Bam scored 21 points and was +8  in game 2
Grant scored 5 points was a -11 and Bam scored 27 points and was +1  in game 3
Grant scored 0  points was a +/- 0 and Bam scored 20 points and was +8  in game 4
Grant scored 0 points was a -3 and Bam scored 15 points and was -13  in game 5
Grant scored 0 points was a +4 and Bam scored 32 points and was +/- 0   in game  6

What does all this mean?   Grant is completely dependent on his team mates how his +/- is as he adds almost nothing statistically during a game.   Oh, he has done well here or there but most of the time his contributions are nil.  He well small ball 5 one game last year against LA but most of the time when he plays C it's let's build a blowout for the other team.    Him being able to play the 5 is pretty much a myth.   Bam killed us and he killed Grant too.

Here is the head to head stats.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1628389&VsPlayerID=1629684

Grant historcally is  holding him to 19 PPG  4.5 APG and 9.5 RPG  on 50% shooting.

This shows me he was not that good of a matchup even though the two have a long and storied history ( high schools and college rivals).  He is too small and does not have the athletic ability to guard BAM.  The same was true of Theis to a large extent.

We should be looking to move on, not experiment with him at the five,  it was and is a complete and utter fantasy that he can guards fives or even fours.  Your asking for the other center to go off.  He also can't rim protect or rebound enough at either position.   

He is ranked 452 with a PIE of 4 this year out of the whole league.  Player Impact Estimate aka PIE is a metric to gauge a player’s all-around contribution to the game. Almost all statistical categories in the box score are involved in the PIE formula.

PIE Formula=(PTS + FGM + FTM – FGA – FTA + Deff.REB + Off.REB/2 + AST + STL + BLK/2 – PF – TO) / (Game.PTS + Game.FGM + Game.FTM – Game.FGA – Game.FTA + Game.Deff.REB + Game.Off.REB/2 + Game.AST + Game.STL + Game.BLK/2 – Game.PF – Game.TO)

The reason we stink is we have low level talent on half our roster.   I believe if we upgrade the Grant Williams, Semi, Carsen  Edwards, Waters and Tacko Fall, Kornet and add Mo Wagner to the list it would help our depth considerably.  It's sad he is a good guy and a team mates but those are ok if they contribute to the team effort but cost you if they do not.  I use Grant as an example, be honest were you one of the folks who thought he could start?

I think fixing this would be the first step.   Danny has been ruthless in the past and cut throat but he seems to love these young guys.   One would think the GM who cold heartedly dealt Perk, PP and KG would still do what he has to do.

I was referring to Game 6, where he did a much better job of defending Bam than our other centers.  As soon as he came out, Bam went off  on Theis. 

[Celtics4ever]

looking at raw numbers is pretty laughable. The commentators and advance stats all pointed out that the best lineup vs the heat was the one with Williams at the 5. Anyone who isn't dumb should know by now that raw +/- is pretty garbage. Also given that Bam played more minutes than GWill, there would be a lot of time he isnt guarded by Grant. He destroyed Theis whenever they matched up, even in short spurts. We realized this too late and it cost us the series.

Do you really think Grant would have done better given more minutes.   He plays a lot of minutes now and does almost nothing.

Playing Grant would have had the same result folks.

I did not use just raw +/- stats and  I posted his scoring and believe me if I posted the other stats it would be much worse for Grant.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/bam-adebayo-stats-in-each-playoff-game-vs-boston

The commentators and advance stats all pointed out that the best lineup vs the heat was the one with Williams at the 5.

That was more an off game by Bam than Grant doing anything.  Are you even aware that Grant played 8:14 min that game, RockinRyA?  He REALLY SHOWED HIM during that time.    The same commentators that thought Grant could start this year and should be a starter.   Now that was laughable truly.

Look
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202009250BOS.html

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4066218/type/nba/year/2020

Grant played 10:27 in game 6, Footey.   I honestly don't think it would have helped.  You know who could have helped more but CBS didn't play him?  Bueller?  Anyone?   Rob!

We need a better PF that player is not on the roster.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

GWill will be out of the league in 2 years. He’s a jack of all trades and master of none.

[gouki88]

In fairness, Grant was our best defender vs Bam in last season's playoffs. I'm disappointed in his development this season, but feel short stints as small ball 5, rather than back up 4, is optimal use of his skill set.  Poor man's PJ Tucker circa 3-4 years ago. Thoughts?

I think I would like to buy what your smoking JK

Let's look at his stats:

Grant scored 3 points was a -6 and Bam scored 18 points and was +12  in game 1
Grant scored 0 points was a +9 and Bam scored 21 points and was +8  in game 2
Grant scored 5 points was a -11 and Bam scored 27 points and was +1  in game 3
Grant scored 0  points was a +/- 0 and Bam scored 20 points and was +8  in game 4
Grant scored 0 points was a -3 and Bam scored 15 points and was -13  in game 5
Grant scored 0 points was a +4 and Bam scored 32 points and was +/- 0   in game  6

What does all this mean?   Grant is completely dependent on his team mates how his +/- is as he adds almost nothing statistically during a game.   Oh, he has done well here or there but most of the time his contributions are nil.  He well small ball 5 one game last year against LA but most of the time when he plays C it's let's build a blowout for the other team.    Him being able to play the 5 is pretty much a myth.   Bam killed us and he killed Grant too.

Here is the head to head stats.

https://www.nba.com/stats/vs/#!/?PlayerID=1628389&VsPlayerID=1629684

Grant historcally is  holding him to 19 PPG  4.5 APG and 9.5 RPG  on 50% shooting.

This shows me he was not that good of a matchup even though the two have a long and storied history ( high schools and college rivals).  He is too small and does not have the athletic ability to guard BAM.  The same was true of Theis to a large extent.

We should be looking to move on, not experiment with him at the five,  it was and is a complete and utter fantasy that he can guards fives or even fours.  Your asking for the other center to go off.  He also can't rim protect or rebound enough at either position.   

He is ranked 452 with a PIE of 4 this year out of the whole league.  Player Impact Estimate aka PIE is a metric to gauge a player’s all-around contribution to the game. Almost all statistical categories in the box score are involved in the PIE formula.

PIE Formula=(PTS + FGM + FTM – FGA – FTA + Deff.REB + Off.REB/2 + AST + STL + BLK/2 – PF – TO) / (Game.PTS + Game.FGM + Game.FTM – Game.FGA – Game.FTA + Game.Deff.REB + Game.Off.REB/2 + Game.AST + Game.STL + Game.BLK/2 – Game.PF – Game.TO)

The reason we stink is we have low level talent on half our roster.   I believe if we upgrade the Grant Williams, Semi, Carsen  Edwards, Waters and Tacko Fall, Kornet and add Mo Wagner to the list it would help our depth considerably.  It's sad he is a good guy and a team mates but those are ok if they contribute to the team effort but cost you if they do not.  I use Grant as an example, be honest were you one of the folks who thought he could start?

I think fixing this would be the first step.   Danny has been ruthless in the past and cut throat but he seems to love these young guys.   One would think the GM who cold heartedly dealt Perk, PP and KG would still do what he has to do.

looking at raw numbers is pretty laughable. The commentators and advance stats all pointed out that the best lineup vs the heat was the one with Williams at the 5. Anyone who isn't dumb should know by now that raw +/- is pretty garbage. Also given that Bam played more minutes than GWill, there would be a lot of time he isnt guarded by Grant. He destroyed Theis whenever they matched up, even in short spurts. We realized this too late and it cost us the series.

Some of the most random and nonsensical statistical analysis I've seen in a while.

[boscel33]

This kid IS going to be good, barring more injuries:

"While he didn’t post any eye-popping stat lines in his 16 minutes of floor time, Boston Celtics second-year shooting guard Romeo Langford managed to change the course of the game with some surprisingly gritty defense in the team’s 105-87 road win over the Denver Nuggets on Sunday.

That’s not to say he was a non-factor on the offensive end of the court either. The Indiana native put up 5 points including 3-for-3 from the free-throw line while pulling down 5 rebounds. But it was Langford’s defense that made a difference for the Celtics, especially in the second half. The former Hoosier drew a pair of charges and bothered a host of 3-point attempts to help hold Denver to 23.5% from beyond the arc on the night."

[SHAQATTACK]

He doesn’t appear intimidated in the least

I like how he operates in the paint and is a good influence on Nesmith who seems to have similar abilities and work ethic.   I like these guys ....I think they can help the Jays .

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Judging from what I saw of his college tape I'm really looking forward to the day we let him keep the ball in his hands for more than just spot up shooting. It's going to be hard on this team because the Jays are so ball dominant, but I hope the day comes. He's an athlete and I wouldn't be surprised if he secretly has the best handle on the team after Kemba.

EDIT: Sorry for being off topic and talking about Langford. To stay on topic I will add that it's extremely laughable that Grant Williams is some secret defensive weapon at the 5 lol You can pretend that GWill is Draymond Green or Dennis Rodman but taht doesn't make it true.

[Bostonborn62]

Semi and GWill shouldn't even be in the League never mind getting playing time. I hate to say it but Tacko too, nice story but he will never have the foot speed to keep up, too slow. IMO. I hope we get some good new players in the off season. Had enough of these G League scrubs.

[gouki88]

Semi and GWill shouldn't even be in the League never mind getting playing time. I hate to say it but Tacko too, nice story but he will never have the foot speed to keep up, too slow. IMO. I hope we get some good new players in the off season. Had enough of these G League scrubs.

Semi and GWill are as good as any team's bottom 5 on the roster. It's just injury issues have forced us into playing them more than that

[Kiorrik]

He doesn’t appear intimidated in the least

I think that's my favourite feature of Romeo.

He seems to just be there and play hard.

To be fair;
 - imagine getting to practice your defence versus Tatum, Brown, Walker.
 - imagine having Smart to learn from

And then imagine doing pretty well in said practice.

That must be a great confidence booster for when you do get to play actual games.

[Hoopvortex]

 

GWill will be out of the league in 2 years. He’s a jack of all trades and master of none.

I respect someone who’s willing to make a prediction. It’s your scouting I don’t respect. Nope, Grant will have a long career.

Semi and GWill shouldn't even be in the League never mind getting playing time.... Had enough of these G League scrubs.

Another one. Just consider that Brad Stevens might possibly know something you don’t. Just consider it, that’s all I’m saying.

At last we saw Celtics team defense last night. At long last. And the most impressive, truly, were Romeo and Grant Williams - especially Grant, who took Jokic out of his game and stopped him on three straight postups. Grant was a very fine defender last year, with the ugly exception of his post defense. Great to see him turning that around.

He’s physical (much in evidence last night), gets in his man’s airspace, does the little things like bumping the roll man. Great anticipation and gets a lot of blocks for his size, and above all he’s super switchable (more than any other reason, that’s why he got crunch-time minutes at 5 last year). He knows where to go and he talks.

[MaxAMillion]

Semi and GWill shouldn't even be in the League never mind getting playing time. I hate to say it but Tacko too, nice story but he will never have the foot speed to keep up, too slow. IMO. I hope we get some good new players in the off season. Had enough of these G League scrubs.

Agreed...a couple of undersized big men with little to no offense. There is a reason Ainge’s bench offers little scoring consistently.

[Sophomore]

Semi and GWill shouldn't even be in the League never mind getting playing time. I hate to say it but Tacko too, nice story but he will never have the foot speed to keep up, too slow. IMO. I hope we get some good new players in the off season. Had enough of these G League scrubs.

Agreed...a couple of undersized big men with little to no offense. There is a reason Ainge’s bench offers little scoring consistently.

Semi and Grant are situational players, who ideally will be something like 10th-11th on your bench. They have major limitations but also can do well in spot work with certain matchups. If Fournier and Romeo stay healthy that’s where they’ll be.

Are the 10th/11th players on the contenders really better than they are? I doubt it. And if Grant can improve with a real off season next year he could earn more of a rotation spot.

Tacko is closer to the end of the bench, or really, ideally going to Europe or China. Just too slow.

[timpiker]

He's starting to look pretty good to me.