Outside of the top 10, Danny’s top 5 draft picks?

[Boris Badenov]

1. Al Jefferson
2. Rozier
3. Tony Allen
4. Perk
5. Avery Bradley

Am I missing anyone?

I like a Ainge and he hit big with the J’s, but that’s not a great list considering he’s been the GM for 18 years. I would put Rondo #1 even though that was a draft night trade.

You've got to include Rondo, as you say. And you have to consider where the picks were made and the typical player that comes out of such picks.

For example: Rajon Rondo is the best player EVER taken at #21 in the modern-era NBA draft. The best ever.

Here's the list:

2019 Brandon Clarke, Gonzaga – Oklahoma City Thunder
2018 Grayson Allen, Duke – Utah Jazz
2017 Terrance Ferguson, Australia – Oklahoma City Thunder
2016 DeAndre’ Bembry, St. Joseph’s – Atlanta Hawks
2015 Justin Anderson, Virginia – Dallas Mavericks
2014 Mitch McGary, Michigan – Oklahoma City Thunder
2013 Gorgui Dieng, Louisville – Utah Jazz
2012 Jared Sullinger, Ohio State – Boston Celtics
2011 Nolan Smith, Duke University – Portland Trail Blazers
2010 Craig Brackins, Iowa State University – Oklahoma City Thunder

2000’s

2009 Darren Collison, University of California, Los Angeles – New Orleans Hornets
2008 Ryan Anderson, Cal – New Jersey Nets
2007 Daequan Cook, Ohio State – Miami HEAT
2006 Rajon Rondo, Kentucky – Phoenix Suns
2005 Nate Robinson, Washington – Phoenix Suns
2004 Pavel Podkolzin, Varese (Italy) – Utah Jazz
2003 Boris Diaw, France – Atlanta Hawks
2002 Qyntel Woods, Northeast Mississippi CC – Portland Trail Blazers
2001 Joseph Forte, North Carolina – Boston Celtics
2000 Morris Peterson, Michigan State – Toronto Raptors

1990’s

1999 Jeff Foster, Southwest Texas State – Golden State Warriors
1998 Ricky Davis, Iowa – Charlotte Hornets
1997 Anthony Parker, Bradley – New Jersey Nets
1996 Dontae’ Jones, Mississippi State – New York Knicks
1995 Michael Finley, Wisconsin – Phoenix Suns
1994 Dickey Simpkins, Providence – Chicago Bulls
1993 James Robinson, Alabama – Portland Trail Blazers
1992 Jon Barry, Georgia Tech – Boston Celtics
1991 Eric Murdock, Providence – Utah Jazz
1990 Jayson Williams, St. John’s – Phoenix Suns

1980’s

1989 Blue Edwards, East Carolina – Utah Jazz
1988 Mark Bryant, Seton Hall – Portland Trail Blazers
1987 Dallas Comegys, DePaul – Atlanta Hawks
1986 Anthony Jones, UNLV – Washington Bullets
1985 Terry Catledge, South Alabama – Philadelphia 76ers
1984 Kenny Fields, UCLA – Milwaukee Bucks
1983 Greg Kite, Brigham Young – Boston Celtics
1982 Eddie Phillips, Alabama – New Jersey Nets
1981 Alton Lister, Arizona State – Milwaukee Bucks
1980 Monti Davis, Tennessee State – Philadelphia 76ers

Who's better - Finley? I'd say not. No one else is even close.

Even Jefferson at #15 - there are probably not 5 players better than him taken at that pick since 1980.

[Goldstar88]

1. Al Jefferson
2. Rozier
3. Tony Allen
4. Perk
5. Avery Bradley

Am I missing anyone?

I like a Ainge and he hit big with the J’s, but that’s not a great list considering he’s been the GM for 18 years. I would put Rondo #1 even though that was a draft night trade.

Which teams have done better on such picks over that stretch of time?

Without drilling into each & every team, San Antonio and Milwaukee come to mind but I think its a very small list of teams in the argument.

Here’s some more...


Toronto

Pascal Siakam
OG Anunoby
Pj Tucker
Delon Wright
Ed Davis


Phoenix

Devin Booker
TJ Warren
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Tyler Ennis
Markief Morris
Robin Lopez
Nate Robinson

Denver

Nikola Jokic
Michael Porter Jr
Evan Fournier
Monte Morris
Juan Hernangomez
Kenneth Faried

Golden State

Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
Kevin Looney
Jordan Poole
Michael Pietrus
Monta Ellis
Marco Bellineli

Utah
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Grayson Allen
Trey Lyles
Paul Milsap
Rodney Hood
Alec Burcs
Ronnie Brewer
CJ Miles
Mo Williams
Kris Humphries

Atlanta

John Collins
Kevin Hunter
Dennis Schroder
Mike Scott
Jeff Teague
Josh Smith
Boris Diaw

Indiana

Danny Granger
Miles Turner
Lance Stephenson

[gouki88]

1. Al Jefferson
2. Rozier
3. Tony Allen
4. Perk
5. Avery Bradley

Am I missing anyone?

I like a Ainge and he hit big with the J’s, but that’s not a great list considering he’s been the GM for 18 years. I would put Rondo #1 even though that was a draft night trade.

Which teams have done better on such picks over that stretch of time?

Without drilling into each & every team, San Antonio and Milwaukee come to mind but I think its a very small list of teams in the argument.

Here’s some more...


Toronto

Pascal Siakam
OG Anunoby
Pj Tucker
Delon Wright
Ed Davis


Phoenix

Devin Booker
TJ Warren
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Tyler Ennis
Markief Morris
Robin Lopez
Nate Robinson

Denver

Nikola Jokic
Michael Porter Jr
Evan Fournier
Monte Morris
Juan Hernangomez
Kenneth Faried

Golden State

Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
Kevin Looney
Jordan Poole
Michael Pietrus
Monta Ellis
Marco Bellineli

Utah
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Grayson Allen
Trey Lyles
Paul Milsap
Rodney Hood
Alec Burcs
Ronnie Brewer
CJ Miles
Mo Williams
Kris Humphries

Indiana

Danny Granger
Miles Turner
Lance Stephenson

The only ones that beat out Boston of this list are Denver (MVP calibre player) and GSW (All-NBA players who won rings). The others aren't very close, except maybe Utah

[Goldstar88]

Let me know if I missed anyone

[Goldstar88]

1. Al Jefferson
2. Rozier
3. Tony Allen
4. Perk
5. Avery Bradley

Am I missing anyone?

I like a Ainge and he hit big with the J’s, but that’s not a great list considering he’s been the GM for 18 years. I would put Rondo #1 even though that was a draft night trade.

Which teams have done better on such picks over that stretch of time?

Without drilling into each & every team, San Antonio and Milwaukee come to mind but I think its a very small list of teams in the argument.

Here’s some more...


Toronto

Pascal Siakam
OG Anunoby
Pj Tucker
Delon Wright
Ed Davis


Phoenix

Devin Booker
TJ Warren
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Tyler Ennis
Markief Morris
Robin Lopez
Nate Robinson

Denver

Nikola Jokic
Michael Porter Jr
Evan Fournier
Monte Morris
Juan Hernangomez
Kenneth Faried

Golden State

Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
Kevin Looney
Jordan Poole
Michael Pietrus
Monta Ellis
Marco Bellineli

Utah
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Grayson Allen
Trey Lyles
Paul Milsap
Rodney Hood
Alec Burcs
Ronnie Brewer
CJ Miles
Mo Williams
Kris Humphries

Indiana

Danny Granger
Miles Turner
Lance Stephenson

The only ones that beat out Boston of this list are Denver (MVP calibre player) and GSW (All-NBA players who won rings). The others aren't very close, except maybe Utah

Phoenix?

What about Atlanta:

John Collins
Kevin Hunter
Dennis Schroder
Mike Scott
Jeff Teague
Josh Smith
Boris Diaw

[todd_days_41]

Danny was hot in the late 1st / early 2nd back in the day. Tony Allen & Delonte West were back to back picks at 24 & 25. Back to back and stuff! Big Al that year too. Arguably Ainge’s best draft overall.

Oh, and Perk before them (a year?). That’s nice value.

Then there was a decent string of 2nd round guys. Brandon Hunter was fun to watch run over people. And Gomes fell into Ainge’s lap — but was still a fabulous get at 50something. And that Big Baby thing...

[gouki88]

1. Al Jefferson
2. Rozier
3. Tony Allen
4. Perk
5. Avery Bradley

Am I missing anyone?

I like a Ainge and he hit big with the J’s, but that’s not a great list considering he’s been the GM for 18 years. I would put Rondo #1 even though that was a draft night trade.

Which teams have done better on such picks over that stretch of time?

Without drilling into each & every team, San Antonio and Milwaukee come to mind but I think its a very small list of teams in the argument.

Here’s some more...


Toronto

Pascal Siakam
OG Anunoby
Pj Tucker
Delon Wright
Ed Davis


Phoenix

Devin Booker
TJ Warren
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Tyler Ennis
Markief Morris
Robin Lopez
Nate Robinson

Denver

Nikola Jokic
Michael Porter Jr
Evan Fournier
Monte Morris
Juan Hernangomez
Kenneth Faried

Golden State

Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
Kevin Looney
Jordan Poole
Michael Pietrus
Monta Ellis
Marco Bellineli

Utah
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Grayson Allen
Trey Lyles
Paul Milsap
Rodney Hood
Alec Burcs
Ronnie Brewer
CJ Miles
Mo Williams
Kris Humphries

Indiana

Danny Granger
Miles Turner
Lance Stephenson

The only ones that beat out Boston of this list are Denver (MVP calibre player) and GSW (All-NBA players who won rings). The others aren't very close, except maybe Utah

Phoenix?

What about Atlanta:

John Collins
Kevin Hunter
Dennis Schroder
Mike Scott
Jeff Teague
Josh Smith
Boris Diaw

Rondo was at worst the same level of talent as Booker, and won a ring. Big Al was a walking 20/10, Tony & Perk were crucial to winning rings, and AB was a great role player.

None of those Atlanta players are particularly close to Rondo’s level

[aingeforthree]

Let me know if I missed anyone

Like Williams, Payton Pritchard will be climbing that list. Just can flat out shoot it and play the IQ game. Stud.

[kraidstar]

You know what's really underappreciated? In all the time Danny's been here, he has only made ONE top-10 selection that was our own pick.

That and the Brooklyn picks amount to three total.

He traded several of them.

He traded the Jeff Green pick, yes. For Ray Allen. What others?

[Goldstar88]

1. Al Jefferson
2. Rozier
3. Tony Allen
4. Perk
5. Avery Bradley

Am I missing anyone?

I like a Ainge and he hit big with the J’s, but that’s not a great list considering he’s been the GM for 18 years. I would put Rondo #1 even though that was a draft night trade.

Which teams have done better on such picks over that stretch of time?

Without drilling into each & every team, San Antonio and Milwaukee come to mind but I think its a very small list of teams in the argument.

Here’s some more...


Toronto

Pascal Siakam
OG Anunoby
Pj Tucker
Delon Wright
Ed Davis


Phoenix

Devin Booker
TJ Warren
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Tyler Ennis
Markief Morris
Robin Lopez
Nate Robinson

Denver

Nikola Jokic
Michael Porter Jr
Evan Fournier
Monte Morris
Juan Hernangomez
Kenneth Faried

Golden State

Klay Thompson
Draymond Green
Kevin Looney
Jordan Poole
Michael Pietrus
Monta Ellis
Marco Bellineli

Utah
Donovan Mitchell
Rudy Gobert
Grayson Allen
Trey Lyles
Paul Milsap
Rodney Hood
Alec Burcs
Ronnie Brewer
CJ Miles
Mo Williams
Kris Humphries

Indiana

Danny Granger
Miles Turner
Lance Stephenson

The only ones that beat out Boston of this list are Denver (MVP calibre player) and GSW (All-NBA players who won rings). The others aren't very close, except maybe Utah

Phoenix?

What about Atlanta:

John Collins
Kevin Hunter
Dennis Schroder
Mike Scott
Jeff Teague
Josh Smith
Boris Diaw

Rondo was at worst the same level of talent as Booker, and won a ring. Big Al was a walking 20/10, Tony & Perk were crucial to winning rings, and AB was a great role player.

None of those Atlanta players are particularly close to Rondo’s level

Rondo was a very good player, especially in the playoffs, but I would still take Devin Booker who isn’t even in his prime yet, over him.

Rajon, was clearly Danny’s best pick, Al was solid, but after that the drafting has been mediocre at best.

[Moranis]

You know what's really underappreciated? In all the time Danny's been here, he has only made ONE top-10 selection that was our own pick.

That and the Brooklyn picks amount to three total.

He traded several of them.

He traded the Jeff Green pick, yes. For Ray Allen. What others?

As you say the 5th pick for Allen, the 7th pick for Telfair, and traded what would become a top 10 pick in the Garnett trade (though that was not a Celtics pick).  In fact, Ainge's early tenure was an outright failure and disaster.  Remember when Ainge took over the Celtics were a multi-year playoff team with a Hall of Famer just entering his prime.  And yet Ainge decided to tear it down and it became a multi-year top 10 lottery team with very little future because Ainge's trades to that point were outright disasters.  It wasn't until Seattle decided it was time to start over and was willing to trade Allen for the 5th pick that Boston's fortunes changed.  But for that trade, Ainge is probably fired soon thereafter because he just wasn't very successful in actual franchise and team building.  And frankly, we are still seeing him struggle with putting together cohesive rosters.  Allen precipitated Garnett, which just changed things dramatically, but Ainge really hasn't shown he understands team building but for the big 3, and frankly I think that only worked because they were old and all knew they needed to win to change their legacies.   

[Neurotic Guy]

You know what's really underappreciated? In all the time Danny's been here, he has only made ONE top-10 selection that was our own pick.

That and the Brooklyn picks amount to three total.

He traded several of them.

He traded the Jeff Green pick, yes. For Ray Allen. What others?

As you say the 5th pick for Allen, the 7th pick for Telfair, and traded what would become a top 10 pick in the Garnett trade (though that was not a Celtics pick).  In fact, Ainge's early tenure was an outright failure and disaster.  Remember when Ainge took over the Celtics were a multi-year playoff team with a Hall of Famer just entering his prime.  And yet Ainge decided to tear it down and it became a multi-year top 10 lottery team with very little future because Ainge's trades to that point were outright disasters.  It wasn't until Seattle decided it was time to start over and was willing to trade Allen for the 5th pick that Boston's fortunes changed.  But for that trade, Ainge is probably fired soon thereafter because he just wasn't very successful in actual franchise and team building.  And frankly, we are still seeing him struggle with putting together cohesive rosters.  Allen precipitated Garnett, which just changed things dramatically, but Ainge really hasn't shown he understands team building but for the big 3, and frankly I think that only worked because they were old and all knew they needed to win to change their legacies.   

And yet after only 3 years as GM he made the moves necessary to build the 2007-8 championship team.   “Early tenure an outright failure and disaster” ... if not for the kindness and generosity of Seattle and Minnesota.

[Moranis]

You know what's really underappreciated? In all the time Danny's been here, he has only made ONE top-10 selection that was our own pick.

That and the Brooklyn picks amount to three total.

He traded several of them.

He traded the Jeff Green pick, yes. For Ray Allen. What others?

As you say the 5th pick for Allen, the 7th pick for Telfair, and traded what would become a top 10 pick in the Garnett trade (though that was not a Celtics pick).  In fact, Ainge's early tenure was an outright failure and disaster.  Remember when Ainge took over the Celtics were a multi-year playoff team with a Hall of Famer just entering his prime.  And yet Ainge decided to tear it down and it became a multi-year top 10 lottery team with very little future because Ainge's trades to that point were outright disasters.  It wasn't until Seattle decided it was time to start over and was willing to trade Allen for the 5th pick that Boston's fortunes changed.  But for that trade, Ainge is probably fired soon thereafter because he just wasn't very successful in actual franchise and team building.  And frankly, we are still seeing him struggle with putting together cohesive rosters.  Allen precipitated Garnett, which just changed things dramatically, but Ainge really hasn't shown he understands team building but for the big 3, and frankly I think that only worked because they were old and all knew they needed to win to change their legacies.   

And yet after only 3 years as GM he made the moves necessary to build the 2007-8 championship team.   “Early tenure an outright failure and disaster” ... if not for the kindness and generosity of Seattle and Minnesota.

I never said Seattle was kind and generous, I said had they not decided to start over i.e. go all in around Durant and trade Allen, Ainge would have been fired.  The trade was absolutely fair value for Allen at the time, it was just a decision Seattle had to make to rebuild.  I made no mention of Minnesota at all, but it has been reported (and was at the time), that Garnet refused to sign an extension before Allen was acquired and Boston wouldn't have acquired him without the extension.  In fact, Boston had the framework of that trade already in place, they just need Garnett to agree to come to Boston, which he only did after Allen joined Pierce because it wasn't until that time, that Boston had a super realistic shot at a title and that is what Garnett cared most about at that point in his career.

Ainge was hired in May 2003.  At the time Boston was coming off 44 win season and a 2nd round playoff appearance which followed directly on a 49 win ECF appearance.  Pierce was 25 and Walker was 26.  Ainge immediately traded Walker in a terrible trade (it basically cost Boston a lottery pick to get from under Raef).  And it was such a bad trade, that Ainge actually reacquired Walker the following season for a 1st round pick (it was actually the pick that became Rondo, which Ainge reacquired later on), before trading him in the offseason for a couple of 2nd rounders.  Ainge's early tenure was an epic failure aside from some good mid to late 1st round picks (Jefferson, Perkins, Allen, West).  He was just constantly tinkering and wasn't acquiring the right players or the right fits from free agency or trades and while many of his draft picks worked out, they didn't fit with what he was doing on the roster.  He moved draft picks like they weren't anything.  He tried to trade Pierce several times.  He was just all over the map because he didn't view players like they are people.  It has always been a business to Ainge.  He has gotten better at the people component over time, but it has taken years, but he still fails a lot at actual team building as the roster the last several seasons has been a mess outside of the top handful of players.    But for Seattle deciding to rebuild, Ainge wouldn't have lasted much longer because he would have had to trade Pierce and continue the multi-year lottery debacle that he had created.

[Neurotic Guy]

You know what's really underappreciated? In all the time Danny's been here, he has only made ONE top-10 selection that was our own pick.

That and the Brooklyn picks amount to three total.

He traded several of them.

He traded the Jeff Green pick, yes. For Ray Allen. What others?

As you say the 5th pick for Allen, the 7th pick for Telfair, and traded what would become a top 10 pick in the Garnett trade (though that was not a Celtics pick).  In fact, Ainge's early tenure was an outright failure and disaster.  Remember when Ainge took over the Celtics were a multi-year playoff team with a Hall of Famer just entering his prime.  And yet Ainge decided to tear it down and it became a multi-year top 10 lottery team with very little future because Ainge's trades to that point were outright disasters.  It wasn't until Seattle decided it was time to start over and was willing to trade Allen for the 5th pick that Boston's fortunes changed.  But for that trade, Ainge is probably fired soon thereafter because he just wasn't very successful in actual franchise and team building.  And frankly, we are still seeing him struggle with putting together cohesive rosters.  Allen precipitated Garnett, which just changed things dramatically, but Ainge really hasn't shown he understands team building but for the big 3, and frankly I think that only worked because they were old and all knew they needed to win to change their legacies.   

And yet after only 3 years as GM he made the moves necessary to build the 2007-8 championship team.   “Early tenure an outright failure and disaster” ... if not for the kindness and generosity of Seattle and Minnesota.

I never said Seattle was kind and generous, I said had they not decided to start over i.e. go all in around Durant and trade Allen, Ainge would have been fired.  The trade was absolutely fair value for Allen at the time, it was just a decision Seattle had to make to rebuild.  I made no mention of Minnesota at all, but it has been reported (and was at the time), that Garnet refused to sign an extension before Allen was acquired and Boston wouldn't have acquired him without the extension.  In fact, Boston had the framework of that trade already in place, they just need Garnett to agree to come to Boston, which he only did after Allen joined Pierce because it wasn't until that time, that Boston had a super realistic shot at a title and that is what Garnett cared most about at that point in his career.

Ainge was hired in May 2003.  At the time Boston was coming off 44 win season and a 2nd round playoff appearance which followed directly on a 49 win ECF appearance.  Pierce was 25 and Walker was 26.  Ainge immediately traded Walker in a terrible trade (it basically cost Boston a lottery pick to get from under Raef).  And it was such a bad trade, that Ainge actually reacquired Walker the following season for a 1st round pick (it was actually the pick that became Rondo, which Ainge reacquired later on), before trading him in the offseason for a couple of 2nd rounders.  Ainge's early tenure was an epic failure aside from some good mid to late 1st round picks (Jefferson, Perkins, Allen, West).  He was just constantly tinkering and wasn't acquiring the right players or the right fits from free agency or trades and while many of his draft picks worked out, they didn't fit with what he was doing on the roster.  He moved draft picks like they weren't anything.  He tried to trade Pierce several times.  He was just all over the map because he didn't view players like they are people.  It has always been a business to Ainge.  He has gotten better at the people component over time, but it has taken years, but he still fails a lot at actual team building as the roster the last several seasons has been a mess outside of the top handful of players.    But for Seattle deciding to rebuild, Ainge wouldn't have lasted much longer because he would have had to trade Pierce and continue the multi-year lottery debacle that he had created.

Kindness and generosity of Seattle and Minnesota was just my sarcastic way of suggesting that the team-building of the 2007-8 champions had nothing to do with Danny. 

[tstorey_97]

Yea, yea, yea, "Rondo this Al Jefferson that," big deal, there is only one late first rounder that we're going hang our hat on right here.

"With the 27th pick in the 2018 NBA draft... 6'8" 240 pounds from Texas A&M at center...
Robert Lee Williams"

Robert's per 36 minutes this season

FG% .726 (3rd in the NBA)
TRB 13.3 (#2 Tied with Gobert)
Blocks 3.7 (#1 NBA)

Recent headlines..."Robert Williams manhandles Bucks ending the Deer's 14 game winning streak. Williams collected 9 rebounds - 6 assists and - 5 blocks in 27 minutes. Giannis was referred for counseling after attempting to drive on Williams early in the game."