Author Topic: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything  (Read 23367 times)

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Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #150 on: September 16, 2019, 06:33:45 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.
Which has also been proven to be incorrect
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Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #151 on: September 16, 2019, 06:34:34 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

41.2% of the time isn't "rare".


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Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #152 on: September 16, 2019, 06:46:49 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

41.2% of the time isn't "rare".

That stat is misleading.

All you have to do is check Jaylen's game logs.

When Smart was injured and was out 7 of the 9 playoff games last season, Jaylen's minutes went up and he was in the game in crunch time.

But in the regular season, Smart or Hayward was playing over Jaylen in crunch time.
Jaylen was only averaging 25.9 minutes per game in the regular season.
In the playoffs, Jaylen averaged 30.4 minutes per game.
Clearly Jaylen's minutes went up in the playoffs when Smart was absent.


Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #153 on: September 16, 2019, 06:48:32 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.
Which has also been proven to be incorrect

Not true.

Nick used 82.com as his basis.
But 82.com combined Brown's minutes in the regular season and playoffs.
I'm only talking about the regular season.
In the playoffs, Smart was injured and Brown got to play a lot more.

Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #154 on: September 16, 2019, 06:52:38 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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My God the mental gymnastics people go through, even semantics arguments, to prove they are right when everything says you're definitely wrong. Never.....rarely.....Guess what? 41% is not anywhere near either description.

Just admit you are wrong and move on.

Jaylen Brown played almost the most 4th quarter minutes on the Celtics last year and 41% of all clutch time available to him. He played more clutch minutes as the team got closer to the playoffs. And in the playoffs Brown was playing some of the best basketball on the team.

I don't remember what started this completely false assertion. Maybe people are trying to claim Stevens doesn't trust Brown with clutch minutes, thereby meaning Stevens will push to move Brown(???IDK), but obviously, Stevens use of Brown in the playoffs over three years shows, Stevens trusts Brown with a lot of important playoff responsibilities, clutch time minutes included, in the games that count the most.

Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #155 on: September 16, 2019, 06:58:02 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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Here's another example.

Last season the Celts beat the Sixers 3 straight times before losing the 4th game in Philly.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071522

Kyrie didn't play in that game.
But Celts had big games from Hayward, Tatum, and Horford.

Hayward came in for Brown with 4:24 left in the 4th.
Brown only came back with 23.9 secs remaining when Brad was using Brown on defense and Morris on offense.
That's a full 4 minutes in the 4th that Brown didn't play in.

So how can I be incorrect when I saw it with my own eyes and the game logs prove it?

Again, 82.com combined regular season and playoff stats.
That's why Brown got a higher %.

Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #156 on: September 16, 2019, 06:58:03 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.
Which has also been proven to be incorrect

Not true.

Nick used 82.com as his basis.
But 82.com combined Brown's minutes in the regular season and playoffs.
I'm only talking about the regular season.
In the playoffs, Smart was injured and Brown got to play a lot more.
Lol. Outside of G2 and G4 in the Indiana series we barely experienced "crunch time" (as 82 games defines it) in the playoffs. To act as if the numbers were drastically warped by the playoffs is just wrong, yet again.

Brown's MPG only went up by about 5 minutes from regular season to playoffs. Surely you're not trying to say that all those minutes came at the end of the game?

This whole thread has seen you move the goalposts on what you're actually being critical of when it comes to Brown, but this is just too much. You're looking undeniably true numbers in the face and saying they're wrong because they don't match what you remember, or want to remember.
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #157 on: September 16, 2019, 07:01:07 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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My God the mental gymnastics people go through, even semantics arguments, to prove they are right when everything says you're definitely wrong. Never.....rarely.....Guess what? 41% is not anywhere near either description.

Just admit you are wrong and move on.

Jaylen Brown played almost the most 4th quarter minutes on the Celtics last year and 41% of all clutch time available to him. He played more clutch minutes as the team got closer to the playoffs. And in the playoffs Brown was playing some of the best basketball on the team.

I don't remember what started this completely false assertion. Maybe people are trying to claim Stevens doesn't trust Brown with clutch minutes, thereby meaning Stevens will push to move Brown(???IDK), but obviously, Stevens use of Brown in the playoffs over three years shows, Stevens trusts Brown with a lot of important playoff responsibilities, clutch time minutes included, in the games that count the most.

That's unfair, nick.

Why am I going to admit to being wrong when the stats you used combined regular season and playoff stats.

No arguments from me if you say Brown played significant minutes in crunch time, in the playoffs.

The regular season tells a different story.

Smart was out for 7 of the 9 games in the playoffs.

But during the regular season, when Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Smart, were all playing, Brown was the odd man out.

Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #158 on: September 16, 2019, 07:03:17 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

41.2% of the time isn't "rare".

That stat is misleading.

All you have to do is check Jaylen's game logs.

When Smart was injured and was out 7 of the 9 playoff games last season, Jaylen's minutes went up and he was in the game in crunch time.

But in the regular season, Smart or Hayward was playing over Jaylen in crunch time.
Jaylen was only averaging 25.9 minutes per game in the regular season.
In the playoffs, Jaylen averaged 30.4 minutes per game.
Clearly Jaylen's minutes went up in the playoffs when Smart was absent.

My brain hurts from even trying to decipher this.

Are you trying to tell me that 7 playoff games without Smart somehow skewed things from “rare” (whatever the heck you think that is) all the way up to 41.2% and is misleading?

Just take the L.   It’s fairly obvious to everyone else on here that you have some sort of ax to grind with the kid. Your posting history demonstrates that. 


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Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #159 on: September 16, 2019, 07:06:09 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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Here's one example of a very tight game and the Celts end up winning with Hayward's game winning shot with 2.0 secs remaining.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=401071646

Jaylen was yanked with 8:32 minutes left in the 4th.

Brad put him back in for defensive purposes with 1:52 remaining and was replaced by Rozier at the 1:45 mark.

Brown once again was put back in with 15.5 secs remaining for defense and pulled out again with 7.6 secs remaining.

Clearly Brown was not getting significant minutes in crunch time.

Okay man, I'll take the bait. Taking one game and extrapolating from it large sample size absolutes is BAD, especially right after very good posters just took the time to look up and share large sample sized data that refutes your position. Please try harder, because this is border line embarrassing right now.
Yeah, I mean, I went and looked and the first close game towards the end of the season I found was the C's win over Indy in April. Celtics win 114-112. The last 5 minutes started at 105-105. Brown played all but 13 seconds of those 5 minutes.

It doesn't prove anything beyond that one game. What the broader stats show is Kyrie, Tatum and Horford almost always played in those minutes and that Smart, Morris, Brown and Hayward then switched in and out a bunch to make up the most used combos.

I am not saying Brown was a closer. The team had three closers in Kyrie, Horford and Tatum. But the next 4 guys all played bunches of minutes in crunch time, last 5 minutes of the game, teams within 5 points.  It's just wrong that Brown never played in those situations last year.

That's because I'm not saying Brown NEVER played in crunch time.

What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.

Check my posts again.
I never said Brown NEVER played in crunch time.
What I said was Brown rarely played in crunch time.
Which has also been proven to be incorrect

Not true.

Nick used 82.com as his basis.
But 82.com combined Brown's minutes in the regular season and playoffs.
I'm only talking about the regular season.
In the playoffs, Smart was injured and Brown got to play a lot more.
Lol. Outside of G2 and G4 in the Indiana series we barely experienced "crunch time" (as 82 games defines it) in the playoffs. To act as if the numbers were drastically warped by the playoffs is just wrong, yet again.

Brown's MPG only went up by about 5 minutes from regular season to playoffs. Surely you're not trying to say that all those minutes came at the end of the game?

This whole thread has seen you move the goalposts on what you're actually being critical of when it comes to Brown, but this is just too much. You're looking undeniably true numbers in the face and saying they're wrong because they don't match what you remember, or want to remember.

That's what I'm saying!

When Brown lost his starting job to Smart, Brown comes in after 5 or 7 minutes in the 2nd qtr.
He stays to play another 5 or 7 minutes in the 2nd qtr. then the starters come back to finish out the 2nd qtr.
Same thing happens in the 2nd half.

In 2017-18, Hayward was out and Brown got to play a lot in crunch time.
Brown's minutes per game proved it.
30.7 minutes per game when Hayward was absent and a lot of playing time in crunch time.

Same thing happened last season in the playoffs.
When Smart was out, Brown started in his place and once again started averaging 30 minutes per game and played a lot in crunch time.

Re: What can Brown do for Team USA? Just about everything
« Reply #160 on: September 16, 2019, 07:10:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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To maintain the sanity of three members of the mod staff, I am locking this thread. It has run it's course.