What can trading Rozier can get us? (Wants $20 million per season)

[gouki88]

A quick exit in the playoffs is what trading Rozier would get us.   There is a huge dropoff at guards after Smart, Irving and Brown and Terry.  Of Smart and Rozier both can be impactful but Terry is the more reliable scorer and shooter.

I think what I have seen of Wanamaker and Lemon, that we would be in deep doggy doo if they had to play extended minutes against nba rotation players.

Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol

[CelticSooner]

A quick exit in the playoffs is what trading Rozier would get us.   There is a huge dropoff at guards after Smart, Irving and Brown and Terry.  Of Smart and Rozier both can be impactful but Terry is the more reliable scorer and shooter.

I think what I have seen of Wanamaker and Lemon, that we would be in deep doggy doo if they had to play extended minutes against nba rotation players.

Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol

Well that’s what he said lol

I think Scary Terry could be the difference between winning the ECF and Finals though. That’s why I don’t think he’ll be traded.

[tenn_smoothie]

Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.

[Celtics4ever]

Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol

LOL, I think it is I who will have the last laugh, I will attempt to explain it to you.

This was the case last year, was it not.   Kyrie was injured and we rode the Rozier train the ECF, maybe you were overseas in the military and did not observe this?  Perhaps you're visually impaired could be any number of reasons you did not see this happening.

Irving has never played more than 75 games in a season.  He had injuries in his one season of  college as well.

51, 59. 71, 75, 53, 72, and 60 are his games played for the first 7 seasons.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

that is 441 out of 574 games or in other words, he has played in 77% of the games he has been in the league.  So yes, I think we need a reliable back up with Kyrie.

As for the playoffs, when last I looked he did not play in them last year.

Well that’s what he said lol

It is exactly what I said.  I think I am right in this assertion, last year we would not have made it this far without Scary Terry.   I am not willing to bet on Irving's health although I want him to be 100% and healthy.

[Moranis]

Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol

LOL, I think it is I who will have the last laugh, I will attempt to explain it to you.

This was the case last year, was it not.   Kyrie was injured and we rode the Rozier train the ECF, maybe you were overseas in the military and did not observe this?  Perhaps you're visually impaired could be any number of reasons you did not see this happening.

Irving has never played more than 75 games in a season.  He had injuries in his one season of  college as well.

51, 59. 71, 75, 53, 72, and 60 are his games played for the first 7 seasons.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

that is 441 out of 574 games or in other words, he has played in 77% of the games he has been in the league.  So yes, I think we need a reliable back up with Kyrie.

As for the playoffs, when last I looked he did not play in them last year.

Well that’s what he said lol

It is exactly what I said.  I think I am right in this assertion, last year we would not have made it this far without Scary Terry.   I am not willing to bet on Irving's health although I want him to be 100% and healthy.

don't forget the playoffs.  He missed them entirely last year and missed a large portion of the Cavs first run (including the last 5 finals games).  It is one thing to miss a couple of weeks in January, it is entirely another to miss the playoffs.

[gouki88]

Do you seriously think Terry is the difference between this team making the ECF vs this team flunking in the first or second round? Lol

LOL, I think it is I who will have the last laugh, I will attempt to explain it to you.

This was the case last year, was it not.   Kyrie was injured and we rode the Rozier train the ECF, maybe you were overseas in the military and did not observe this?  Perhaps you're visually impaired could be any number of reasons you did not see this happening.

Irving has never played more than 75 games in a season.  He had injuries in his one season of  college as well.

51, 59. 71, 75, 53, 72, and 60 are his games played for the first 7 seasons.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

that is 441 out of 574 games or in other words, he has played in 77% of the games he has been in the league.  So yes, I think we need a reliable back up with Kyrie.

As for the playoffs, when last I looked he did not play in them last year.

Well that’s what he said lol

It is exactly what I said.  I think I am right in this assertion, last year we would not have made it this far without Scary Terry.   I am not willing to bet on Irving's health although I want him to be 100% and healthy.

The way you phrased it to me came off as if you were talking long-term that we would suddenly become a scrappy playoff team rather than a true contender in the future.
It doesn’t make sense to me why you would assert that about trading TRoz. As far as I can tell most of the thread is concerned with future consequences, not what would have happened last season had we moved him.

[Diggles]

I think Danny goes all in with him...keeps him long term....

[Hoopvortex]

Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.

Brother Marcus has consistently played starter's minutes, including last season - he was once again 5th on the team, per game. So I think you're making a good bet.

We've heard so much about the New Positions: Ballhandlers, Wings, Swings, and Bigs; but as things have always been in the NBA, the players that break the mold have an advantage. It's true that Marcus is usually listed as a Point Guard, and it's also true that he functions as a Ballhandler. But he's almost always in the game with another Ballhandler and takes a wing to guard.

Brown as a "shooting forward"? There's yet another designation (lol!), and I'm sympathetic to you and everyone else who's trying to navigate this maze.

Brown's edge is that he's got so much speed at his size, that smaller wings are at a disadvantage in guarding him.

[Big333223]

Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.

Brother Marcus has consistently played starter's minutes, including last season - he was once again 5th on the team, per game. So I think you're making a good bet.

We've heard so much about the New Positions: Ballhandlers, Wings, Swings, and Bigs; but as things have always been in the NBA, the players that break the mold have an advantage. It's true that Marcus is usually listed as a Point Guard, and it's also true that he functions as a Ballhandler. But he's almost always in the game with another Ballhandler and takes a wing to guard.

Brown as a "shooting forward"? There's yet another designation (lol!), and I'm sympathetic to you and everyone else who's trying to navigate this maze.

Brown's edge is that he's got so much speed at his size, that smaller wings are at a disadvantage in guarding him.

 

In the NBA, positions have never really mattered. Jokic is the best passer on the Nuggets, he led the team in assists last year and the offense ran through him. Is he not the point guard?

Steph Curry is always referred to as a PG, and I wouldn't argue it, but Draymond has led the Warriors in assists the last 3 years and Klay Thompson plays defense on a lot of the opposing teams' pg's. If Steph isn't the leading playmaker and doesn't always guard opposing pg's why do we all think he's a pg?

It's easy to go through history and see these kind of positional designations are hazy, at best, and useless at worst. 

[Hoopvortex]

Celts still have a 3-man rotation of real guards (Smart, Rozier, Irving). I know Brown starts as a pseudo-2, but he is really a shooting forward. Plus Stevens and his PG, Perimeters & Bigs philosophy allows for all sorts of combos. Finally, we need Smart's defense and toughness to contend for a title. I see Marcus Smart getting his share of minutes.

Brother Marcus has consistently played starter's minutes, including last season - he was once again 5th on the team, per game. So I think you're making a good bet.

We've heard so much about the New Positions: Ballhandlers, Wings, Swings, and Bigs; but as things have always been in the NBA, the players that break the mold have an advantage. It's true that Marcus is usually listed as a Point Guard, and it's also true that he functions as a Ballhandler. But he's almost always in the game with another Ballhandler and takes a wing to guard.

Brown as a "shooting forward"? There's yet another designation (lol!), and I'm sympathetic to you and everyone else who's trying to navigate this maze.

Brown's edge is that he's got so much speed at his size, that smaller wings are at a disadvantage in guarding him.

 

In the NBA, positions have never really mattered. Jokic is the best passer on the Nuggets, he led the team in assists last year and the offense ran through him. Is he not the point guard?

Steph Curry is always referred to as a PG, and I wouldn't argue it, but Draymond has led the Warriors in assists the last 3 years and Klay Thompson plays defense on a lot of the opposing teams' pg's. If Steph isn't the leading playmaker and doesn't always guard opposing pg's why do we all think he's a pg?

It's easy to go through history and see these kind of positional designations are hazy, at best, and useless at worst.

I think you're right. The trouble with all those positions - not excluding all those new ones, like ballhandlers, swings, etc., is that the ones that break the mold have an advantage. Jaylen Brown is too big, long, and strong for "traditional" shooting guards, for example.

We always go wrong when we try to fit a player to a preconceived role, instead of a role to a player.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.

Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.

I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.

Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.

Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.

Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability. 

[gouki88]

What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.

Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.

I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.

Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.

Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.

Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.

Getting KAT for cheap would be an amazing pickup for us. I’m not his biggest fan, particularly after his recent showing, but anytime you can get a big man that has had multiple 20/12 seasons and is still effectively a kid, you have to

[Birdman]

Dont want rozier to leave but he wants starter money at 4 years, around 20 million a year..sorry buddy u not getting that here unless kyrie leaves

[GreenEnvy]

What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.

Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.

I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.

Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.

Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.

Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.

Minnesota would be dumber than any of us ever thought if they chose Butler over Wiggins AND Towns.

Both of those players are still so young and clearly way more talented than Butler.

Choosing to build over a guy who cannot be the lead dog would be a grave mistake. If they can’t make it work, rid themselves of Butler.

[KGs Knee]

What if Butler wins over the Minny ownership? What if KAT is suddenly the one on the outside? What if they slap a full max extension offer on the table for Butler and trade Wiggins and Kat for players around him.

Would Rozier-Morris-Williams-Kings pick get it done? Minny gets two dogs to go with Butler. I think Rozier would play well with him. Williams is a good prospect for Thibs' defensive system. They coudl trade the Kings pick for another big name who is more ready to win.

I realize KAT seems soft and all, but he might be a perfect buy-low guy right now.

Then, the Grizz could trade Dieng, Wiggins, Teague, and Sac pick (with salary filler) for Conley and Gasol.

Minny's new lineup is Conley-Rozier-Butler-Morris-Gasol with Williams-Tolliver-Rose-Deng-Okogie off the bench.

Anyway. Thanks for going with me on that journey to the land of improbability.

Minnesota would be dumber than any of us ever thought if they chose Butler over Wiggins AND Towns.

Both of those players are still so young and clearly way more talented than Butler.

Choosing to build over a guy who cannot be the lead dog would be a grave mistake. If they can’t make it work, rid themselves of Butler.

Wiggins is most certainly not more talented than Butler.  Wiggins is looking more and more like he's a bench player.

Towns could be, but the guy has no heart.

The only reason you keep Towns over Butler is age and upside.