Revisiting the 2016 Draft

[Phantom255x]

Right now, I'd pick Jaylen at #2 in a "re-draft", but barely. Brogdon also has a legit case there. I'd have Siakam at #1.

Either way, this is looking like an amazing pick by Ainge at #3. I still remember when a good chunk of this forum wanted Bender and thought we blew it by not picking him 

I mean honestly, where is Bender right now?

Ben Simmons meanwhile is probably more like #4.

[Moranis]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

[keevsnick]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

Ya I dont think that "rumored" trade was every close to real. It just doesn't make any sense to trade the 3rd pick for a smattering of lesser assets, that almost never happens in the NBA and I have to believe Ainge is smarter than that. I also think PHO takes Brown 4 if Boston doesn't take him, based off the fact they took Josh Jackson (an athletic wing) the very next year and at the time they needed a 3 badly.

[footey]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

I just don't buy trade rumors until someone like Woj says they are in serious discussions.   That one seems especially weird and unlikely to me. 

[nickagneta]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

[NKY fan]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

I just don't buy trade rumors until someone like Woj says they are in serious discussions.   That one seems especially weird and unlikely to me.

I thought Danny was dangling the nets pick for Okafor but that might have been at the trade deadline 5 months before the draft

[Moranis]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

I don't know how atrocious it was.  Noel was still thought of as a potential defensive anchor down low (he is still at least functional, but obviously never reached real potential).  Most felt his value was the back-end of the top 10 pick at the time of the draft.  Covington was in the DPOY discussion last year (he finished 5th in voting and was a 1st team all defense).  He was trending into the prototypical 3 and D player even then and has the switchable length that Ainge seems to really love (and I think he would have fit in well here in Boston the last few seasons).  The 2 extra late 1st's would have allowed Ainge to move up higher into that draft as he would have had 16, 23, 24, and 26.  That would have given him a bunch of options and I do think a move to 8 might have been possible by using all of those picks given what 8 went for that pick package was at least comparable.  Even if Brown was off the board at 8 there were some solid players available at that spot (I'm not sure Ainge would have selected Chriss, but Poetl went 9th and Sabonis and Waller-Prince went soon after, both of which strike me like Ainge type players).  I think you forget how highly Noel was still thought of in the summer of 2016.  Most pegged his value as somewhere around the end of the top 10.  So you have a top 10ish level pick, plus Covington and two 1st's for 3 in what was widely regarded as a 2-person draft.  The value at the time wasn't that bad and considering how solid Covington has been and the several high quality players selected in the late 20's, if you did even alright drafting it would have even worked out fine in retrospect. 

[Moranis]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

I just don't buy trade rumors until someone like Woj says they are in serious discussions.   That one seems especially weird and unlikely to me.

I don't know if Woj reported it, but several highly respected NBA reporters did.  It was everywhere on draft night as having been offered.  And the two teams had been linked for awhile.  Philly wanted 3 so they could draft Dunn to either keep or dangle for someone like Butler and during the prior year Ainge has reportedly offered the pick for Okafor around the prior trade deadline. 

[Moranis]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

Ya I dont think that "rumored" trade was every close to real. It just doesn't make any sense to trade the 3rd pick for a smattering of lesser assets, that almost never happens in the NBA and I have to believe Ainge is smarter than that. I also think PHO takes Brown 4 if Boston doesn't take him, based off the fact they took Josh Jackson (an athletic wing) the very next year and at the time they needed a 3 badly.

Phoenix was pretty locked into Bender, which was clearly a position of need for them as they moved 13, 28, and Bogdanovic to move up to 8 to select Chriss.  I think Hield and Murray still go 5 and 6, so it would come to Denver at 7.  I think they might have selected Brown before he got to the Kings pick at 8 (and the Kings also might have wanted Brown and might not have moved the pick if Brown was there).  It would have been interesting to see if the Nuggets took Chriss or Brown in that scenario and if they took Chriss what the Kings would do with that pick (Vlade love Papagiannis but knew he wasn't worth a shot at . 

And I do think you guys are letting what became of Noel cloud your judgment on what his perceived value was at the time.  He was still considered a DPOY type potential player at the time.  Many on this board (including myself) thought he would have been the anchor on what could have been the greatest defensive team in the league and that is with Thomas at PG (Bradley, Crowder, Covington, Noel - could have been an awesome defensive unit).  The two extra 1st's opened up a lot of trading options for the team, either to move up or to move to a future draft.  Now obviously Noel busted out and never lived up to the potential, but at the time he still had pretty high value.

[nickagneta]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

I don't know how atrocious it was.  Noel was still thought of as a potential defensive anchor down low (he is still at least functional, but obviously never reached real potential).  Most felt his value was the back-end of the top 10 pick at the time of the draft.  Covington was in the DPOY discussion last year (he finished 5th in voting and was a 1st team all defense).  He was trending into the prototypical 3 and D player even then and has the switchable length that Ainge seems to really love (and I think he would have fit in well here in Boston the last few seasons).  The 2 extra late 1st's would have allowed Ainge to move up higher into that draft as he would have had 16, 23, 24, and 26.  That would have given him a bunch of options and I do think a move to 8 might have been possible by using all of those picks given what 8 went for that pick package was at least comparable.  Even if Brown was off the board at 8 there were some solid players available at that spot (I'm not sure Ainge would have selected Chriss, but Poetl went 9th and Sabonis and Waller-Prince went soon after, both of which strike me like Ainge type players).  I think you forget how highly Noel was still thought of in the summer of 2016.  Most pegged his value as somewhere around the end of the top 10.  So you have a top 10ish level pick, plus Covington and two 1st's for 3 in what was widely regarded as a 2-person draft.  The value at the time wasn't that bad and considering how solid Covington has been and the several high quality players selected in the late 20's, if you did even alright drafting it would have even worked out fine in retrospect.

Completely and utterly disagree. 4 quarters has never equaled a dollar in the NBA. So I guess we really have nothing left to discuss.

[Moranis]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

I don't know how atrocious it was.  Noel was still thought of as a potential defensive anchor down low (he is still at least functional, but obviously never reached real potential).  Most felt his value was the back-end of the top 10 pick at the time of the draft.  Covington was in the DPOY discussion last year (he finished 5th in voting and was a 1st team all defense).  He was trending into the prototypical 3 and D player even then and has the switchable length that Ainge seems to really love (and I think he would have fit in well here in Boston the last few seasons).  The 2 extra late 1st's would have allowed Ainge to move up higher into that draft as he would have had 16, 23, 24, and 26.  That would have given him a bunch of options and I do think a move to 8 might have been possible by using all of those picks given what 8 went for that pick package was at least comparable.  Even if Brown was off the board at 8 there were some solid players available at that spot (I'm not sure Ainge would have selected Chriss, but Poetl went 9th and Sabonis and Waller-Prince went soon after, both of which strike me like Ainge type players).  I think you forget how highly Noel was still thought of in the summer of 2016.  Most pegged his value as somewhere around the end of the top 10.  So you have a top 10ish level pick, plus Covington and two 1st's for 3 in what was widely regarded as a 2-person draft.  The value at the time wasn't that bad and considering how solid Covington has been and the several high quality players selected in the late 20's, if you did even alright drafting it would have even worked out fine in retrospect.

Completely and utterly disagree. 4 quarters has never equaled a dollar in the NBA. So I guess we really have nothing left to discuss.

You were still talking about trading Rozier AND picks for Noel during the next season [here].  I really think everyone in this thread has forgotten just how highly thought of Noel was in the summer of 2016.  He had just finished his 2nd year and finished in the top 10 in both Blocks and Steals in each of his 1st two seasons.  He improved his scoring and his rebounding efficiency (11.1 p, 8.1 r in 29.3 mpg).  It was clear he couldn't play well with Embiid and that is why he was on the block, but Noel still had very high value after his 2nd season (he was also still just 21).  It was that 3rd season where he started to have issues arise both on and off the court (and perhaps the trade rumors played into that), but during the summer of 2016 Noel had top 10 pick value.

Edit: Found this post from you in July 2016 right after the draft in question

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=86269.msg2134642#msg2134642

This between comparison between Okafor and Nerlens shows that except for the fact that Okafor shot more shots last year than Nerlens, that Noel is by far the better all around player. Noel also has DPOY potential and in Stevens defensive system could have 3 BPG and 3 SPG type possibilities. That's a lot of possession creations.

Okafor has a knowledge of more offensive moves but Nerlens shoots at about the same overall rate. I think Nerlens could, in Brad's system, finish off pick and rolls and be a garbage man(offensive rebound put backer) to the tune of 12 PPG and that would be good offense for a defensive anchor and yet another defensive superstar.

A Noel/Horford front line would be a huge improvement over the Sully/Amir frontline from last year that I am convinced this team, if it stays healthy could win another 6-10 games.

So Noel for maybe the Memphis pick and Rozier and throw in a couple of late second rounders from next year would be good to me if the front office thinks D. Jackson could replace Rozier as our backup PG.

So you believed that Noel could still be the DPOY and would be a monster in Stevens system.  So much so, that you felt trading Rozier, two 2nd's, and the Memphis pick was a good trade for Boston. Now obviously the Memphis pick was a ways into the future and you had no real idea how good it might be, but you certainly had to realize the potential was there for it to be very good (given Brown was selected with one of those future picks with potential).

Noel's value was excellent in the summer of 2016.  Clearly Boston didn't think he, plus Covington and the late 1st's were worth the 3rd pick, but it doesn't change the fact that the proposed trade wasn't atrocious based on value at the time.    It was a fair trade offer, Boston just liked Brown better.

[nickagneta]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

I don't know how atrocious it was.  Noel was still thought of as a potential defensive anchor down low (he is still at least functional, but obviously never reached real potential).  Most felt his value was the back-end of the top 10 pick at the time of the draft.  Covington was in the DPOY discussion last year (he finished 5th in voting and was a 1st team all defense).  He was trending into the prototypical 3 and D player even then and has the switchable length that Ainge seems to really love (and I think he would have fit in well here in Boston the last few seasons).  The 2 extra late 1st's would have allowed Ainge to move up higher into that draft as he would have had 16, 23, 24, and 26.  That would have given him a bunch of options and I do think a move to 8 might have been possible by using all of those picks given what 8 went for that pick package was at least comparable.  Even if Brown was off the board at 8 there were some solid players available at that spot (I'm not sure Ainge would have selected Chriss, but Poetl went 9th and Sabonis and Waller-Prince went soon after, both of which strike me like Ainge type players).  I think you forget how highly Noel was still thought of in the summer of 2016.  Most pegged his value as somewhere around the end of the top 10.  So you have a top 10ish level pick, plus Covington and two 1st's for 3 in what was widely regarded as a 2-person draft.  The value at the time wasn't that bad and considering how solid Covington has been and the several high quality players selected in the late 20's, if you did even alright drafting it would have even worked out fine in retrospect.

Completely and utterly disagree. 4 quarters has never equaled a dollar in the NBA. So I guess we really have nothing left to discuss.

You were still talking about trading Rozier AND picks for Noel during the next season [here].  I really think everyone in this thread has forgotten just how highly thought of Noel was in the summer of 2016.  He had just finished his 2nd year and finished in the top 10 in both Blocks and Steals in each of his 1st two seasons.  He improved his scoring and his rebounding efficiency (11.1 p, 8.1 r in 29.3 mpg).  It was clear he couldn't play well with Embiid and that is why he was on the block, but Noel still had very high value after his 2nd season (he was also still just 21).  It was that 3rd season where he started to have issues arise both on and off the court (and perhaps the trade rumors played into that), but during the summer of 2016 Noel had top 10 pick value.

Lol.....Moranis. Nerlens was my neighbor and friend of my son. I wanted him on the Celtics bad back then but Rozier and picks that I thought little of to get someone I knew on my team is a lot different than thinking he was worth a #3 pick. Next time you decide to go fishing around my history to make me look like a hypocrite, you might want to look farther to see what motivations I might have had.

[celticsclay]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

I don't know how atrocious it was.  Noel was still thought of as a potential defensive anchor down low (he is still at least functional, but obviously never reached real potential).  Most felt his value was the back-end of the top 10 pick at the time of the draft.  Covington was in the DPOY discussion last year (he finished 5th in voting and was a 1st team all defense).  He was trending into the prototypical 3 and D player even then and has the switchable length that Ainge seems to really love (and I think he would have fit in well here in Boston the last few seasons).  The 2 extra late 1st's would have allowed Ainge to move up higher into that draft as he would have had 16, 23, 24, and 26.  That would have given him a bunch of options and I do think a move to 8 might have been possible by using all of those picks given what 8 went for that pick package was at least comparable.  Even if Brown was off the board at 8 there were some solid players available at that spot (I'm not sure Ainge would have selected Chriss, but Poetl went 9th and Sabonis and Waller-Prince went soon after, both of which strike me like Ainge type players).  I think you forget how highly Noel was still thought of in the summer of 2016.  Most pegged his value as somewhere around the end of the top 10.  So you have a top 10ish level pick, plus Covington and two 1st's for 3 in what was widely regarded as a 2-person draft.  The value at the time wasn't that bad and considering how solid Covington has been and the several high quality players selected in the late 20's, if you did even alright drafting it would have even worked out fine in retrospect.

Completely and utterly disagree. 4 quarters has never equaled a dollar in the NBA. So I guess we really have nothing left to discuss.

You were still talking about trading Rozier AND picks for Noel during the next season [here].  I really think everyone in this thread has forgotten just how highly thought of Noel was in the summer of 2016.  He had just finished his 2nd year and finished in the top 10 in both Blocks and Steals in each of his 1st two seasons.  He improved his scoring and his rebounding efficiency (11.1 p, 8.1 r in 29.3 mpg).  It was clear he couldn't play well with Embiid and that is why he was on the block, but Noel still had very high value after his 2nd season (he was also still just 21).  It was that 3rd season where he started to have issues arise both on and off the court (and perhaps the trade rumors played into that), but during the summer of 2016 Noel had top 10 pick value.

Lol.....Moranis. Nerlens was my neighbor and friend of my son. I wanted him on the Celtics bad back then but Rozier and picks that I thought little of to get someone I knew on my team is a lot different than thinking he was worth a #3 pick. Next time you decide to go fishing around my history to make me look like a hypocrite, you might want to look farther to see what motivations I might have had.

How do we even find old threads? I thought the searches were disabled on the new forum.

[Moranis]

I still wonder what might have been had Boston done the rumored trade with Philly, which was essentially Noel, Covington, 24 and 26 for 3.  I don't recall if other parts were in it.  I have no idea what Ainge would have done with all those late 1st's, but Siakam was the 27th pick and Murray was the 29th pick.  I know Ainge was looking to get players like Yabu and Zizic who were more inclined to stay overseas.  I also think there is a chance, Boston could have used all of those picks to move up to 8 and might have still had a shot at Brown (Philly would have likely taken Dunn at 3, which would have changed the rest of the top 10 pretty significantly I think).

My guess is the result of that trade would have been ownership losing confidence in Ainge and eventually removing him. That is an atrocious trade both now and at the time and I doubt it was any type of serious rumor.

I don't know how atrocious it was.  Noel was still thought of as a potential defensive anchor down low (he is still at least functional, but obviously never reached real potential).  Most felt his value was the back-end of the top 10 pick at the time of the draft.  Covington was in the DPOY discussion last year (he finished 5th in voting and was a 1st team all defense).  He was trending into the prototypical 3 and D player even then and has the switchable length that Ainge seems to really love (and I think he would have fit in well here in Boston the last few seasons).  The 2 extra late 1st's would have allowed Ainge to move up higher into that draft as he would have had 16, 23, 24, and 26.  That would have given him a bunch of options and I do think a move to 8 might have been possible by using all of those picks given what 8 went for that pick package was at least comparable.  Even if Brown was off the board at 8 there were some solid players available at that spot (I'm not sure Ainge would have selected Chriss, but Poetl went 9th and Sabonis and Waller-Prince went soon after, both of which strike me like Ainge type players).  I think you forget how highly Noel was still thought of in the summer of 2016.  Most pegged his value as somewhere around the end of the top 10.  So you have a top 10ish level pick, plus Covington and two 1st's for 3 in what was widely regarded as a 2-person draft.  The value at the time wasn't that bad and considering how solid Covington has been and the several high quality players selected in the late 20's, if you did even alright drafting it would have even worked out fine in retrospect.

Completely and utterly disagree. 4 quarters has never equaled a dollar in the NBA. So I guess we really have nothing left to discuss.

You were still talking about trading Rozier AND picks for Noel during the next season [here].  I really think everyone in this thread has forgotten just how highly thought of Noel was in the summer of 2016.  He had just finished his 2nd year and finished in the top 10 in both Blocks and Steals in each of his 1st two seasons.  He improved his scoring and his rebounding efficiency (11.1 p, 8.1 r in 29.3 mpg).  It was clear he couldn't play well with Embiid and that is why he was on the block, but Noel still had very high value after his 2nd season (he was also still just 21).  It was that 3rd season where he started to have issues arise both on and off the court (and perhaps the trade rumors played into that), but during the summer of 2016 Noel had top 10 pick value.

Lol.....Moranis. Nerlens was my neighbor and friend of my son. I wanted him on the Celtics bad back then but Rozier and picks that I thought little of to get someone I knew on my team is a lot different than thinking he was worth a #3 pick. Next time you decide to go fishing around my history to make me look like a hypocrite, you might want to look farther to see what motivations I might have had.

I knew you knew him.  I remembered that.  I was actually just looking at the old threads on the trade/draft to make sure my memory was correct and saw that one from you.  It doesn't change my point though that what Noel became was not what he was thought of at the time, even by you who was still touting him as a DPOY potential player that could average 3 steals and 3 blocks in Stevens system.  That is a pretty valuable player.  This notion that the Sixers offer wasn't a fair trade is 100% hindsight.  At the time, it was considered fair value.  In fact, the Sixers boards were all up in arms at the offer thinking the Sixers had offered too much and were glad the Celtics turned it down.  There is also the potential lost opportunity cost, in Boston's potential to move back up, in Boston's potential to hit on one of the picks (like Siakam), or in the potential that more established players like Noel/Covington might have had more drawing power for Durant.  Maybe Durant thinks of the team differently if it had Noel and Covington instead of an unproven rookie.  Even without Durant, maybe Noel doesn't go off the deep end and actually continued down his path to DPOY type play, especially playing next to someone like Horford (you know an actual adult that does things the right way). 

Brown obviously worked out very well for Boston, but in an alternative reality where Boston does that trade, maybe Boston is better off long term.  Maybe it already has its next banner or two.  Just hard to say what might have been and just because Noel flamed out in Philly/Dallas doesn't mean he would have flamed out in Boston (he certainly still could have, just can't know that for sure).

[celticsclay]

Nick related to all this was their concern Noel coming home to his old neighborhood would have been risky? Or did people think that would be a good thing