2013 CB Draft: Western Semi Finals: Oklahoma City(2) vs Dallas(3)

[indeedproceed]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

if Gibson is that effective on smith I will just defer to Deng
he is being guarded by budinger. that speaks for itself

and thibs defenses usually bother some players I have noticed

How, exactly? Will Deng try to put the ball on the floor, or will he try to shoot over Budinger?

either or. I have absolute faith that Deng can get past Budinger or shoot over him. if Howard is roaming around I would go over, with a height advantage to Deng. if Howard is drawn away then I will drive on you.

actually even if Howard is there Deng will drive and kick it to Al for the mid range jumper

On shots that were not hook shots, lay-ups, tip-ins, or dunks Luol Deng shot a total of 264 for 792, or 33.3%

[Lucky17]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

I think those stats show a fairly significant advantage for Josh Smith myself.

15.8 PPG vs 10.1 PPG
8.7 RPG vs 7.2 RPG
3.5 APG vs 1.2 APG
1.4 SPG vs 0.5 SPG
2.1 BPG vs 1.5 BPG
Smith getting to the line 4 times a game vs 1 for Gibson.

Gibson only outscore Smith once, 10 points to 8 on a horrific shooting night from Smith, things he tends to have every once in a while against everyone because he falls in love with the outside shot.

In their playoff matchups the difference becomes even greater in Smiths favor, so say the stats on that page you provided.

Except Dallas' reliance on Smith's offensive production is so much greater than OKC's on Gibson.

If you told me that the net difference is 5-6 points a night in Dallas' favor, I'd take it. Especially when Smith is shooting below 40% from the field to get those points.

Yeah but those stats say come the playoffs the difference is 8 PPG, 5 RPG, 3 APG, and over 1 SPG and 1.5 BPG. This is the playoffs.

See my response above re: Gibson's increased minutes.

[fitzhickey]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

in their playoff matchups smith gets 21 more mins approx and absolutely dominates him.

So what happens when I up Gibson's minutes to closer to 25 or 30 a night?

From the look of things, Gibson outrebounds and matches Smith's scoring.

urgh now I have to think
thanks a lot lucky
just kidding man
Gibson may match his scoring and rebounding but he won't have he same effect on the defensive end
smith was averaging 3.2 blocks and 1.3 steals

[Roy H.]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

I think those stats show a fairly significant advantage for Josh Smith myself.

15.8 PPG vs 10.1 PPG
8.7 RPG vs 7.2 RPG
3.5 APG vs 1.2 APG
1.4 SPG vs 0.5 SPG
2.1 BPG vs 1.5 BPG
Smith getting to the line 4 times a game vs 1 for Gibson.

Gibson only outscore Smith once, 10 points to 8 on a horrific shooting night from Smith, things he tends to have every once in a while against everyone because he falls in love with the outside shot.

In their playoff matchups the difference becomes even greater in Smiths favor, so say the stats on that page you provided.

Except Dallas' reliance on Smith's offensive production is so much greater than OKC's on Gibson.

If you told me that the net difference is 5-6 points a night in Dallas' favor, I'd take it. Especially when Smith is shooting below 40% from the field to get those points.

Is that true?

Big Al will play Howard evenly on the scoreboard.  History has proven this.

Deng can outscore Budinger by 7 to 10 per night.  Link

Smith can outscore Gibson by 5 to 6 per night, by your own admission.

Gordon can outscore Shumpert by 5 to 7 per night.

Dallas' bench will play your bench, at the very least, evenly.

So, that means that Rose has to outscore Nash by between 17 and 23 point per night for you to win, on the conservative side.

I just don't see that happening, especially with Deng, Gordon and Smith helping on defense.

[nickagneta]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

I think those stats show a fairly significant advantage for Josh Smith myself.

15.8 PPG vs 10.1 PPG
8.7 RPG vs 7.2 RPG
3.5 APG vs 1.2 APG
1.4 SPG vs 0.5 SPG
2.1 BPG vs 1.5 BPG
Smith getting to the line 4 times a game vs 1 for Gibson.

Gibson only outscore Smith once, 10 points to 8 on a horrific shooting night from Smith, things he tends to have every once in a while against everyone because he falls in love with the outside shot.

In their playoff matchups the difference becomes even greater in Smiths favor, so say the stats on that page you provided.

Except Dallas' reliance on Smith's offensive production is so much greater than OKC's on Gibson.

If you told me that the net difference is 5-6 points a night in Dallas' favor, I'd take it. Especially when Smith is shooting below 40% from the field to get those points.

Yeah but those stats say come the playoffs the difference is 8 PPG, 5 RPG, 3 APG, and over 1 SPG and 1.5 BPG. This is the playoffs.

See my response above re: Gibson's increased minutes.

My response is Gibson wasn't playing more minutes because he was being ineffectual on the court and his coach didn't trust him and went with Boozer instead. That is still the way of things in real life Chicago. My guess is if Gibson gets more minutes, Smith's numbers would increase offsetting any boast in Gibson's numbers due to increased minutes.

[Roy H.]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

in their playoff matchups smith gets 21 more mins approx and absolutely dominates him.

So what happens when I up Gibson's minutes to closer to 25 or 30 a night?

From the look of things, Gibson outrebounds and matches Smith's scoring.

First, if Taj Gibson was good enough to be playing 30 minutes per game, he'd be playing them.

Second, you can't extrapolate per-minute numbers from a guy playing 15 to 20 minutes per night up to 30 minutes.  Gibson gets matched up primarily against bench players, and gets most of his production against them.  Against starters, his numbers would naturally go down.

[fitzhickey]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

if Gibson is that effective on smith I will just defer to Deng
he is being guarded by budinger. that speaks for itself

and thibs defenses usually bother some players I have noticed

How, exactly? Will Deng try to put the ball on the floor, or will he try to shoot over Budinger?

either or. I have absolute faith that Deng can get past Budinger or shoot over him. if Howard is roaming around I would go over, with a height advantage to Deng. if Howard is drawn away then I will drive on you.

actually even if Howard is there Deng will drive and kick it to Al for the mid range jumper

On shots that were not hook shots, lay-ups, tip-ins, or dunks Luol Deng shot a total of 264 for 792, or 33.3%

hence my reconsideration.

[Roy H.]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

if Gibson is that effective on smith I will just defer to Deng
he is being guarded by budinger. that speaks for itself

and thibs defenses usually bother some players I have noticed

How, exactly? Will Deng try to put the ball on the floor, or will he try to shoot over Budinger?

either or. I have absolute faith that Deng can get past Budinger or shoot over him. if Howard is roaming around I would go over, with a height advantage to Deng. if Howard is drawn away then I will drive on you.

actually even if Howard is there Deng will drive and kick it to Al for the mid range jumper

On shots that were not hook shots, lay-ups, tip-ins, or dunks Luol Deng shot a total of 264 for 792, or 33.3%

hence my reconsideration.

Don't listen to IP too much.  Historically, Deng is a very efficient shooter.  He's just trying to exploit the fact that Deng had a wrist injury that he was playing with because his team needed him.  That affected his shooting.

[fitzhickey]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

if Gibson is that effective on smith I will just defer to Deng
he is being guarded by budinger. that speaks for itself

and thibs defenses usually bother some players I have noticed

How, exactly? Will Deng try to put the ball on the floor, or will he try to shoot over Budinger?

either or. I have absolute faith that Deng can get past Budinger or shoot over him. if Howard is roaming around I would go over, with a height advantage to Deng. if Howard is drawn away then I will drive on you.

actually even if Howard is there Deng will drive and kick it to Al for the mid range jumper

On shots that were not hook shots, lay-ups, tip-ins, or dunks Luol Deng shot a total of 264 for 792, or 33.3%

hence my reconsideration.

Don't listen to IP too much.  Historically, Deng is a very efficient shooter.  He's just trying to exploit the fact that Deng had a wrist injury that he was playing with because his team needed him.  That affected his shooting.

goes to show my attentiveness to Chicago hoops
I'll be more wary now

[Lucky17]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

in their playoff matchups smith gets 21 more mins approx and absolutely dominates him.

So what happens when I up Gibson's minutes to closer to 25 or 30 a night?

From the look of things, Gibson outrebounds and matches Smith's scoring.

First, if Taj Gibson was good enough to be playing 30 minutes per game, he'd be playing them.

He's good enough for us. He's the perfect complement to Dwight Howard. Chicago needs to start Boozer because of his contract, and his offense. The Bulls need his scoring early in games.

Second, you can't extrapolate per-minute numbers from a guy playing 15 to 20 minutes per night up to 30 minutes.  Gibson gets matched up primarily against bench players, and gets most of his production against them.  Against starters, his numbers would naturally go down.

I don't think it's beyond the pale, because Gibson isn't a featured player in his team's offense. He scores from put-backs, free throws, etc. In the natural flow of the game, why is it hard to believe that Gibson's scoring/rebounding totals would increase 50% more with 50% more minutes?

Also, in fourth quarters/crunch time, Boozer generally sits in favor of Gibson's defense against the opposing team's starters. So a good portion of what Gibson does is against starting-caliber players.

[Lucky17]

My response is Gibson wasn't playing more minutes because he was being ineffectual on the court and his coach didn't trust him and went with Boozer instead. That is still the way of things in real life Chicago. My guess is if Gibson gets more minutes, Smith's numbers would increase offsetting any boast in Gibson's numbers due to increased minutes.

See my latest response to Roy. Gibson plays when the chips are down for Chicago.

[Lucky17]

I still don't understand how Dallas' half-court offense even works if Steve Nash is being hounded by Derrick Rose or Iman Shumpert.

Still waiting for a reply on this.

[indeedproceed]

Also, I like Taj Gibson on Josh Smith. Historically, Smith has scored over 20 points against Gibson's Bulls once, in 13 games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smithjo03&p2=gibsota01

In three of those meetings, the woeful Gibson has outscored or matched Josh Smith's point totals.

if Gibson is that effective on smith I will just defer to Deng
he is being guarded by budinger. that speaks for itself

and thibs defenses usually bother some players I have noticed

How, exactly? Will Deng try to put the ball on the floor, or will he try to shoot over Budinger?

either or. I have absolute faith that Deng can get past Budinger or shoot over him. if Howard is roaming around I would go over, with a height advantage to Deng. if Howard is drawn away then I will drive on you.

actually even if Howard is there Deng will drive and kick it to Al for the mid range jumper

On shots that were not hook shots, lay-ups, tip-ins, or dunks Luol Deng shot a total of 264 for 792, or 33.3%

hence my reconsideration.

Don't listen to IP too much.  Historically, Deng is a very efficient shooter.  He's just trying to exploit the fact that Deng had a wrist injury that he was playing with because his team needed him.  That affected his shooting.

Musta been a doozy, he shot 34.8% on jumpers the year before.

[fitzhickey]

I still don't understand how Dallas' half-court offense even works if Steve Nash is being hounded by Derrick Rose or Iman Shumpert.

Still waiting for a reply on this.

sorry man
didn't see it in all the commotion and rapid posting and stuff
I would be happy for Gordon to bring the ball up. he isn't Nash but the combo of Gordon Deng and Smith is going to make some fluid passing. Coach McHale would have sets designed specifically for Nash being pressured
like this. then Nash could get into spot on offence and the play could continue
I'm not too fussed

[Roy H.]

I still don't understand how Dallas' half-court offense even works if Steve Nash is being hounded by Derrick Rose or Iman Shumpert.

Still waiting for a reply on this.

Throughout his HOF career, Steve Nash has been at an athletic disadvantage in just about every game he's played.  His team's offenses haven't wilted under the pressure yet.

Also, Dallas has very good passers throughout its lineup.  Nash, Gordon, Deng, and Smith are all excellent passers.