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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 10:22:16 AM

Title: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 10:22:16 AM
Their team has peaked and won't get better.  Lillard is beloved in Portland, so I don't think they trade him, but McCollum has a ton of value and they can use him to shed more long term salary and get out from tax hell (and still be able to retain Nurkic). 


So the teams that make the most sense to me are the Lakers (trade centered around Ingram and cap space), Sixers (Fultz, Covington, Bayless as main pieces), and Wolves (Wiggins and a couple of 1st's plus ability to take on at least Turner).  Cavs probably don't have enough even with BKN and their ability to take all of the Blazers bad contracts (Turner, Harkless, Leonard) as they would have to give back at least 1 bad contract.  Spurs don't have enough young pieces though he would be a great fit there.  He would be a good fit in NY, but again they don't have enough salary, though Frank N and their 1st this year is a good talent start.  Any one else make any realistic sense.   
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Donoghus on April 20, 2018, 10:27:14 AM
Probably not a bad idea.  Their cap situation in the foreseeable future is not that desirable.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Green-18 on April 20, 2018, 10:32:19 AM
Their team has peaked and won't get better.  Lillard is beloved in Portland, so I don't think they trade him, but McCollum has a ton of value and they can use him to shed more long term salary and get out from tax hell (and still be able to retain Nurkic). 


So the teams that make the most sense to me are the Lakers (trade centered around Ingram and cap space), Sixers (Fultz, Covington, Bayless as main pieces), and Wolves (Wiggins and a couple of 1st's plus ability to take on at least Turner).  Cavs probably don't have enough even with BKN and their ability to take all of the Blazers bad contracts (Turner, Harkless, Leonard) as they would have to give back at least 1 bad contract.  Spurs don't have enough young pieces though he would be a great fit there.  He would be a good fit in NY, but again they don't have enough salary, though Frank N and their 1st this year is a good talent start.  Any one else make any realistic sense.   

I agree with you 100%.  The Blazers would be better served to sacrifice some of McCollum's offense for a two-way guard/forward who can be paired with Lillard.  Lillard and McCollum are too much of a defensive liability against good teams. 

Finding the right deal is going to be extremely difficult.  Is it worth moving McCollum in a deal for a high draft pick for this year?  No way the Blazers could get a top 5 pick but maybe they could secure something in the 7-10 range.  In a deal they would also need to receive a veteran starter to replace CJ.  Teams have smartened up so I don't even know if they could receive this type of return.  Portland is stuck in a tough spot in the West. 
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 20, 2018, 10:44:33 AM
What about a trade package centered around Kawhi Leonard and CJ McCullom?

Spurs Receive: McCullom, Collins, Blazers 2018 1st
Blazers Receive: Leonard

I realize the salaries don't work, but some creative moves in the off-season would likely make it work.

The Blazers start Lillard-Turner-Leonard-Aminu-Nurkic. I still think they need to make another move to get a 3rd guy, but that is a really good duo to start with. I really like the Aminu-Leonard front court. I don't like Nurkic that much. I also don't like starting Turner. I don't think they have the assets, but I'd be calling the Wizards about Beal or Porter, the Mavs about Barnes, and the Clippers about Harris and Jordan. Perhaps the Blazers could facilitate 3-team trade with the Hornets and another team where they get Batum (drafted by the Blazers) in a salary dump.

The Spurs start McCullom-Murray-Green-Aldridge-Collins. They get younger. Pop could do wonders with a guy like Collins. The McCullom-Murray backcourt really compliments each other well.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Green-18 on April 20, 2018, 10:54:11 AM
What about a trade package centered around Kawhi Leonard and CJ McCullom?

Spurs Receive: McCullom, Collins, Blazers 2018 1st
Blazers Receive: Leonard

I realize the salaries don't work, but some creative moves in the off-season would likely make it work.

The Blazers start Lillard-Turner-Leonard-Aminu-Nurkic. I still think they need to make another move to get a 3rd guy, but that is a really good duo to start with. I really like the Aminu-Leonard front court. I don't like Nurkic that much. I also don't like starting Turner. I don't think they have the assets, but I'd be calling the Wizards about Beal or Porter, the Mavs about Barnes, and the Clippers about Harris and Jordan. Perhaps the Blazers could facilitate 3-team trade with the Hornets and another team where they get Batum (drafted by the Blazers) in a salary dump.

The Spurs start McCullom-Murray-Green-Aldridge-Collins. They get younger. Pop could do wonders with a guy like Collins. The McCullom-Murray backcourt really compliments each other well.

What about a trade package centered around Kawhi Leonard and CJ McCullom?

Spurs Receive: McCullom, Collins, Blazers 2018 1st
Blazers Receive: Leonard

I realize the salaries don't work, but some creative moves in the off-season would likely make it work.

The Blazers start Lillard-Turner-Leonard-Aminu-Nurkic. I still think they need to make another move to get a 3rd guy, but that is a really good duo to start with. I really like the Aminu-Leonard front court. I don't like Nurkic that much. I also don't like starting Turner. I don't think they have the assets, but I'd be calling the Wizards about Beal or Porter, the Mavs about Barnes, and the Clippers about Harris and Jordan.

The Spurs start McCullom-Murray-Green-Aldridge-Collins. They get younger. Pop could do wonders with a guy like Collins. The McCullom-Murray backcourt really compliments each other well.

I like the idea of that backcourt a lot.  Dejounte Murray is an elite defender by almost every metric.  The issue with San Antonio is that they can't score against good teams.  I wouldn't rule out your proposed deal as one of the best offers the Spurs could receive.  The only thing that might change this is if Kawhi gave a list of teams he was interested in going to.

I would have faith in Pop's ability to make McCollum a satisfactory defender.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: gouki88 on April 20, 2018, 10:54:39 AM
Agree. Don't like the fit of McCollum next to Lillard.

Somehow moving him for Leonard would be pretty awesome. I like McCollum next to Murray - quite a long back-court. And Kawhi next to Dame is deadly
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: arctic 3.0 on April 20, 2018, 11:13:37 AM
What about a trade package centered around Kawhi Leonard and CJ McCullom?

Spurs Receive: McCullom, Collins, Blazers 2018 1st
Blazers Receive: Leonard

I realize the salaries don't work, but some creative moves in the off-season would likely make it work.

The Blazers start Lillard-Turner-Leonard-Aminu-Nurkic. I still think they need to make another move to get a 3rd guy, but that is a really good duo to start with. I really like the Aminu-Leonard front court. I don't like Nurkic that much. I also don't like starting Turner. I don't think they have the assets, but I'd be calling the Wizards about Beal or Porter, the Mavs about Barnes, and the Clippers about Harris and Jordan. Perhaps the Blazers could facilitate 3-team trade with the Hornets and another team where they get Batum (drafted by the Blazers) in a salary dump.

The Spurs start McCullom-Murray-Green-Aldridge-Collins. They get younger. Pop could do wonders with a guy like Collins. The McCullom-Murray backcourt really compliments each other well.
I like this idea primarily because it would end the Leonard to Boston talk, which I think is a window shortening and sideways move.
At best
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 12:07:26 PM
What about a trade package centered around Kawhi Leonard and CJ McCullom?

Spurs Receive: McCullom, Collins, Blazers 2018 1st
Blazers Receive: Leonard

I realize the salaries don't work, but some creative moves in the off-season would likely make it work.

The Blazers start Lillard-Turner-Leonard-Aminu-Nurkic. I still think they need to make another move to get a 3rd guy, but that is a really good duo to start with. I really like the Aminu-Leonard front court. I don't like Nurkic that much. I also don't like starting Turner. I don't think they have the assets, but I'd be calling the Wizards about Beal or Porter, the Mavs about Barnes, and the Clippers about Harris and Jordan. Perhaps the Blazers could facilitate 3-team trade with the Hornets and another team where they get Batum (drafted by the Blazers) in a salary dump.

The Spurs start McCullom-Murray-Green-Aldridge-Collins. They get younger. Pop could do wonders with a guy like Collins. The McCullom-Murray backcourt really compliments each other well.
I like this idea primarily because it would end the Leonard to Boston talk, which I think is a window shortening and sideways move.
At best
Leonard would arguably shorten the window, but he would make it a door and not a window.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 12:31:48 PM
I agree that they've peaked, but I'm not sure how they can get better.

The Wizards are in a very similar position.

Realistically I think the Blazers would be better if they had a more efficient interior presence and they exchanged McCollum for a scoring wing with size.

Imagine if the Blazers had Paul George instead of CJ and Steven Adams instead of Nurkic.


But how could they obtain players like that?  Trading CJ will probably only get them some role players or a pick or two.  It would likely mean taking a step back for a couple years.  By the time they get back to where they are now, Dame might be mostly through his prime and/or close to hitting free agency.


Kawhi Leonard is an interesting idea, but I don't think the Blazers have the pieces to compete with Philadelphia, LA, or Boston.  Unless SA really likes McCollum.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 12:49:57 PM
I agree that they've peaked, but I'm not sure how they can get better.

The Wizards are in a very similar position.

Realistically I think the Blazers would be better if they had a more efficient interior presence and they exchanged McCollum for a scoring wing with size.

Imagine if the Blazers had Paul George instead of CJ and Steven Adams instead of Nurkic.


But how could they obtain players like that?  Trading CJ will probably only get them some role players or a pick or two.  It would likely mean taking a step back for a couple years.  By the time they get back to where they are now, Dame might be mostly through his prime and/or close to hitting free agency.


Kawhi Leonard is an interesting idea, but I don't think the Blazers have the pieces to compete with Philadelphia, LA, or Boston.  Unless SA really likes McCollum.
I really think they need the salary relief as much as anything, though Washington would be an interesting idea.  Would a Beal for McCollum swap make any sort of sense?  They are similar players, but perhaps the change of scenario for both would do both well.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 20, 2018, 01:18:43 PM
The Wizards are gonna get blown up one way or another.

Gortat is gone anyway -- he is a dinosaur in the modern NBA.

But the front office needs to choose between Beal/Porter or Wall. Its obvious that there is friction there and that their play styles don't compliment each other well.

I could see the Cavs offering Clarkson/Thompson/Nets pick for Wall to try to convince Lebron to stay. It makes sense for both sides, but the Wizards need a bit more.

Any way you look at it, I don't think the McCullom for Beal makes sense for either side. McCullom needs to be able to run his own offense more, and so does Beal. Both Lillard and Wall need backcourt mates who are 3/D players and content without the ball in their hands.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Phantom255x on April 20, 2018, 01:24:46 PM
How about the Milwaukee Bucks

Something like McCollum and Meyers Leonard FOR Bledsoe, Wilson, Henson + Pick(s)

I think it makes sense for both sides. Giannis gets paired with another legit star in McCollum while the Blazers could get rid of Bledsoe in a year since he's essentially an expiring at $15M.

I had to add Henson and Leonard into the deal since salaries just don't work if you want only McCollum (since I highly doubt POR wants to take back a Delly or Snell in addition to Bledsoe + pick(s), and others make less that wouldn't match salaries unless they also threw in Maker or Brogdon).

Essentially, MIL has a "Big 3" of McCollum/Middleton/Giannis and a pretty solid team behind that (Brogdon, Maker, etc.) so long as they draft and sign the right guys afterwards.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 02:00:23 PM
How about the Milwaukee Bucks

Something like McCollum and Meyers Leonard FOR Bledsoe, Wilson, Henson + Pick(s)


I don't see the point of that for the Blazers at all.  Just getting cap space and some lesser picks should not be enough for them to trade CJ.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 02:02:39 PM
I agree that they've peaked, but I'm not sure how they can get better.

The Wizards are in a very similar position.

Realistically I think the Blazers would be better if they had a more efficient interior presence and they exchanged McCollum for a scoring wing with size.

Imagine if the Blazers had Paul George instead of CJ and Steven Adams instead of Nurkic.


But how could they obtain players like that?  Trading CJ will probably only get them some role players or a pick or two.  It would likely mean taking a step back for a couple years.  By the time they get back to where they are now, Dame might be mostly through his prime and/or close to hitting free agency.


Kawhi Leonard is an interesting idea, but I don't think the Blazers have the pieces to compete with Philadelphia, LA, or Boston.  Unless SA really likes McCollum.
I really think they need the salary relief as much as anything, though Washington would be an interesting idea.  Would a Beal for McCollum swap make any sort of sense?  They are similar players, but perhaps the change of scenario for both would do both well.


When you've got a small market team and a star who wants very much to contend and won't be satisfied with backward moves, I don't think you can afford to make moves just to create salary cap relief unless doing so will allow you to continue to compete at the same or higher level.

That's obviously an incredibly difficult needle to thread, but I just don't see how Portland can afford to use CJ to dump salary (e.g. Leonard, Turner, Harkless, or whoever) and likely take a step back for a year or two.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: nickagneta on April 20, 2018, 02:13:20 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 02:17:18 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 02:44:40 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: ChillyWilly on April 20, 2018, 02:51:35 PM
Some teams are regular season heroes and playoff zeros.

Just glad the Celtics aren't one of those  :laugh:
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 02:53:10 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.

I think if they could do a trade like that which would save them cap and return a significant piece that at least provides the hope of a higher ceiling without entirely compromising their ability compete for the playoffs, they would do it.

Of course, there's no way Cleveland would consider a trade like that after LeBron leaves them this summer.   ;D
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 20, 2018, 02:59:23 PM
The Wizards are gonna get blown up one way or another.

Gortat is gone anyway -- he is a dinosaur in the modern NBA.

But the front office needs to choose between Beal/Porter or Wall. Its obvious that there is friction there and that their play styles don't compliment each other well.

I could see the Cavs offering Clarkson/Thompson/Nets pick for Wall to try to convince Lebron to stay. It makes sense for both sides, but the Wizards need a bit more.

Any way you look at it, I don't think the McCullom for Beal makes sense for either side. McCullom needs to be able to run his own offense more, and so does Beal. Both Lillard and Wall need backcourt mates who are 3/D players and content without the ball in their hands.

Gortat is killing the Wizards. If ..  They can get a better smaller modern player to replace him.....they should .    He gets beat 6 ways from Sunday on practically ever play .
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.

I think if they could do a trade like that which would save them cap and return a significant piece that at least provides the hope of a higher ceiling without entirely compromising their ability compete for the playoffs, they would do it.

Of course, there's no way Cleveland would consider a trade like that after LeBron leaves them this summer.   ;D
I would guess if that trade was made it would be before the draft and thus Cleveland would use McCollum to help entice Lebron to stay (and Portland would get to pick whomever it wanted).  I mean post trade for the Cavs that is a pretty formidable team if James stays (though it would be lacking a PG).

PG - F.A.?, Calderon
SG - McCollum, Hood
SF - James, Korver, Turner
PF - Love, Green, Harkless
C - Nance, Thompson, Leonard
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 20, 2018, 03:01:13 PM
Some teams are regular season heroes and playoff zeros.

Just glad the Celtics aren't one of those  :laugh:

TP

our coach is better than Blazer or Wiz ......he can make the playoffs with G league ...LOL
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: kraidstar on April 20, 2018, 03:46:44 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.

This.

Lillard is already 27 and isn't good enough anyways, even if you somehow get him a better star than McCollum. Heck, even if you KEEP McCollum and get another star they won't be good enough, unless that star is LeBron-level awesome. And even THEN there would be doubt as to whether they they would win - would a LeBron/Lillard/McCollum team would be better than the Cavs team that got crushed last year in the Finals? I wouldn't bet on it.

I see no way at all they will be able to compete with teams like GS, Boston, and Philly in the coming years. It would take a miracle.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 03:59:45 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.

I think if they could do a trade like that which would save them cap and return a significant piece that at least provides the hope of a higher ceiling without entirely compromising their ability compete for the playoffs, they would do it.

Of course, there's no way Cleveland would consider a trade like that after LeBron leaves them this summer.   ;D
I would guess if that trade was made it would be before the draft and thus Cleveland would use McCollum to help entice Lebron to stay (and Portland would get to pick whomever it wanted).  I mean post trade for the Cavs that is a pretty formidable team if James stays (though it would be lacking a PG).

PG - F.A.?, Calderon
SG - McCollum, Hood
SF - James, Korver, Turner
PF - Love, Green, Harkless
C - Nance, Thompson, Leonard


I guess the 4th best player on that Cavs team is Nance, the 5th best is Hood?
I think that team is getting steamrolled by

Irving
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Morris
Smart
Rozier

It's also interesting to wonder what will happen with Thompson. He is currently getting DNP coaching decisions right now. Will be crazy to pay him 35 million a year the next two years to not play. Is that bottom 5 worst contracts in sports? 35 million for unplayable?
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 04:06:04 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.

I think if they could do a trade like that which would save them cap and return a significant piece that at least provides the hope of a higher ceiling without entirely compromising their ability compete for the playoffs, they would do it.

Of course, there's no way Cleveland would consider a trade like that after LeBron leaves them this summer.   ;D
I would guess if that trade was made it would be before the draft and thus Cleveland would use McCollum to help entice Lebron to stay (and Portland would get to pick whomever it wanted).  I mean post trade for the Cavs that is a pretty formidable team if James stays (though it would be lacking a PG).

PG - F.A.?, Calderon
SG - McCollum, Hood
SF - James, Korver, Turner
PF - Love, Green, Harkless
C - Nance, Thompson, Leonard


I guess the 4th best player on that Cavs team is Nance, the 5th best is Hood?
I think that team is getting steamrolled by

Irving
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Morris
Smart
Rozier

It's also interesting to wonder what will happen with Thompson. He is currently getting DNP coaching decisions right now. Will be crazy to pay him 35 million a year the next two years to not play. Is that bottom 5 worst contracts in sports? 35 million for unplayable?
I'd certainly like Boston's chances in that series. 

I don't think Thompson's contract is bottom 5, but it is definitely awful.  And I know he doesn't play much, but I think a lot of that is Lue just isn't a very good coach.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 04:21:59 PM


I see no way at all they will be able to compete with teams like GS, Boston, and Philly in the coming years. It would take a miracle.

Contending isn't the only goal a franchise can have, though.

Look no further than the Kings, Suns, Wolves to see how long you can be out of the picture, especially in the West, if you decide (or are forced) to completely rebuild.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.

I think if they could do a trade like that which would save them cap and return a significant piece that at least provides the hope of a higher ceiling without entirely compromising their ability compete for the playoffs, they would do it.

Of course, there's no way Cleveland would consider a trade like that after LeBron leaves them this summer.   ;D
I would guess if that trade was made it would be before the draft and thus Cleveland would use McCollum to help entice Lebron to stay (and Portland would get to pick whomever it wanted).  I mean post trade for the Cavs that is a pretty formidable team if James stays (though it would be lacking a PG).

PG - F.A.?, Calderon
SG - McCollum, Hood
SF - James, Korver, Turner
PF - Love, Green, Harkless
C - Nance, Thompson, Leonard


I guess the 4th best player on that Cavs team is Nance, the 5th best is Hood?
I think that team is getting steamrolled by

Irving
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Morris
Smart
Rozier

It's also interesting to wonder what will happen with Thompson. He is currently getting DNP coaching decisions right now. Will be crazy to pay him 35 million a year the next two years to not play. Is that bottom 5 worst contracts in sports? 35 million for unplayable?
I'd certainly like Boston's chances in that series. 

I don't think Thompson's contract is bottom 5, but it is definitely awful.  And I know he doesn't play much, but I think a lot of that is Lue just isn't a very good coach.

Do you think Lebron would come back to a team that would no longer even be a favorite to get out of his own conference (and would be a decided underdog to Golden State and Houston most likely) I don't think he wants to do that at 34
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: PhoSita on April 20, 2018, 04:58:33 PM
I definitely think Portland has peaked. They are a good not great team with one great player, and have been hovering in Western Conference as a 40-50 win team for 5 years now. They are ridiculously capped out and have little cgance of getting good enough to get to the Finals for years to come.

They don't need to just trade McCollum. They need a full blown blow up and start over otherwise they are going to be stuck in NBA purgatory for another half decade.


They're a small market.

They have an active fanbase that is accustomed to being in the mix for the playoffs and having entertaining basketball to watch.

They have a franchise player who is a top 10 star in the league beloved by fans.

They have a very good coach.

They have an owner with deep pockets.


Blowing it up and starting over would mean throwing away or at least jeopardizing most of those things.

There are worse things than being a 45 win team likely to lose in the 1st round.


I think in Boston we have a tendency to assume that other teams / fanbases will see the logic in accepting that they can't contend and deciding to become irrelevant for an indefinite period of time in the hope that the next iteration of the team will have a chance to contend. 

That's a lot harder to do when you're the only gig in town and your fans don't have the comfort of two decades of winning and relevance in every single major sport to keep them warm through the cold years of rebuilding.
yeah, but they can't pay the luxury tax for a team that is mediocre.  They have to get salary relief and the only way they can realistically do that is trade McCollum (or Lillard).  I can't see them trading Lillard so they have to move McCollum.  I mean something like Hill, Smith, Clarkson, Osman, Zizic, BKN pick for McCollum, Turner, Harkless, and Leonard shaves like 8 million off of their cap this year, plus a lot more in the future.  They get the BKN pick to add a top 10 pick, add Osman and Zizic as young cost controlled talent and then Smith, Clarkson and Hill for some quality players in their backcourt (Thompson could be swapped out for Smith as well if they'd rather go that route).  Only McCollum of the group they are trading is any sort of difference maker.  nbadraft.net has Bamba falling to 8, but whether it is him, Bridges or Carter, it is still a quality piece

So they make that trade the Blazers would look like

PG - Lillard, Clarkson
SG - Smith, Hill
SF - Aminu, Osman, Layman
PF - Bamba, Swanigan, Zizic
C - Nurkic, Collins

That team probably isn't quite as good, but has a lot better cap situation, has more young pieces, and is still a playoff level team in the West.

I think if they could do a trade like that which would save them cap and return a significant piece that at least provides the hope of a higher ceiling without entirely compromising their ability compete for the playoffs, they would do it.

Of course, there's no way Cleveland would consider a trade like that after LeBron leaves them this summer.   ;D
I would guess if that trade was made it would be before the draft and thus Cleveland would use McCollum to help entice Lebron to stay (and Portland would get to pick whomever it wanted).  I mean post trade for the Cavs that is a pretty formidable team if James stays (though it would be lacking a PG).

PG - F.A.?, Calderon
SG - McCollum, Hood
SF - James, Korver, Turner
PF - Love, Green, Harkless
C - Nance, Thompson, Leonard


I guess the 4th best player on that Cavs team is Nance, the 5th best is Hood?
I think that team is getting steamrolled by

Irving
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Morris
Smart
Rozier

It's also interesting to wonder what will happen with Thompson. He is currently getting DNP coaching decisions right now. Will be crazy to pay him 35 million a year the next two years to not play. Is that bottom 5 worst contracts in sports? 35 million for unplayable?
I'd certainly like Boston's chances in that series. 

I don't think Thompson's contract is bottom 5, but it is definitely awful.  And I know he doesn't play much, but I think a lot of that is Lue just isn't a very good coach.

Do you think Lebron would come back to a team that would no longer even be a favorite to get out of his own conference (and would be a decided underdog to Golden State and Houston most likely) I don't think he wants to do that at 34

Is there a team he could go to where he would be a favorite to get out of his own conference and be competitive against GSW or HOU? 

I don't think LeBron joining one of those two teams is a realistic possibility.  At least I hope it isn't.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 20, 2018, 05:39:50 PM
Quote
PG - F.A.?, Calderon
SG - McCollum, Hood
SF - James, Korver, Turner
PF - Love, Green, Harkless
C - Nance, Thompson, Leonard

I think LeBron leaves CLE.   He is not even involving his team mates  when he plays setting up the I did all I could narrative for when he leaves CLE.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on April 20, 2018, 06:28:50 PM
If you're a team with a top 10 pick, would you trade for CJ?

Also, if you'r Portland, would you trade CJ for, say, a pick in the 5-10 range?
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: nickagneta on April 20, 2018, 07:06:55 PM
Can we please get back on subject and not turn this into yet another Cleveland/Lebron thread. Thank you
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Monkhouse on April 20, 2018, 07:38:35 PM
If you're a team with a top 10 pick, would you trade for CJ?

Also, if you'r Portland, would you trade CJ for, say, a pick in the 5-10 range?

CJ has always been an impressive scorer, but his FTA per game worry me, and the fact that he's so terrible at his FG %. His 3pt is 40.8%, but top 10 pick? Hmm... In this draft, I don't know..

I would rather take Mikal Bridges, who I believe will become the next best thing along with Doncic, Bagley, and Ayton.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: Boris Badenov on April 20, 2018, 09:13:18 PM
Their team has peaked and won't get better.  Lillard is beloved in Portland, so I don't think they trade him, but McCollum has a ton of value and they can use him to shed more long term salary and get out from tax hell (and still be able to retain Nurkic). 


So the teams that make the most sense to me are the Lakers (trade centered around Ingram and cap space), Sixers (Fultz, Covington, Bayless as main pieces), and Wolves (Wiggins and a couple of 1st's plus ability to take on at least Turner).  Cavs probably don't have enough even with BKN and their ability to take all of the Blazers bad contracts (Turner, Harkless, Leonard) as they would have to give back at least 1 bad contract.  Spurs don't have enough young pieces though he would be a great fit there.  He would be a good fit in NY, but again they don't have enough salary, though Frank N and their 1st this year is a good talent start.  Any one else make any realistic sense.   

I guess you're not the only one who thinks so.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/4/20/17262290/portland-trail-blazers-damian-lillard-cj-mccollum-trade

Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: nickagneta on April 21, 2018, 12:40:17 AM
Their team has peaked and won't get better.  Lillard is beloved in Portland, so I don't think they trade him, but McCollum has a ton of value and they can use him to shed more long term salary and get out from tax hell (and still be able to retain Nurkic). 


So the teams that make the most sense to me are the Lakers (trade centered around Ingram and cap space), Sixers (Fultz, Covington, Bayless as main pieces), and Wolves (Wiggins and a couple of 1st's plus ability to take on at least Turner).  Cavs probably don't have enough even with BKN and their ability to take all of the Blazers bad contracts (Turner, Harkless, Leonard) as they would have to give back at least 1 bad contract.  Spurs don't have enough young pieces though he would be a great fit there.  He would be a good fit in NY, but again they don't have enough salary, though Frank N and their 1st this year is a good talent start.  Any one else make any realistic sense.   

I guess you're not the only one who thinks so.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/4/20/17262290/portland-trail-blazers-damian-lillard-cj-mccollum-trade
Loved this part from the article discussing the Portland defense

Quote
Lillard and McCollum both still offer the resistance of a wet tissue.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 21, 2018, 09:25:05 AM
The Wizards of the West

Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: kraidstar on April 21, 2018, 12:57:53 PM
The Wizards of the West

Eh, teams don't want to play the Wizards in the playoffs. There's the chance they could get their act together at some point.

Nobody is afraid of Portland.

I like seeing them in the regular season, if you lose against them it's because you didn't play well, not because you got beat. They just don't have a high ceiling.
Title: Re: Blazers need to trade McCollom
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 21, 2018, 08:19:30 PM
...and his team just got swept  :o

Ouch.