Ime doesn't looks as good without top tier talent.

[green_bballers13]

I agree. Rockets are now 6 games under .500 with a much improved roster over the one they had last year. Their defense is good not great, offense is poor. He’s very overrated, IMO.

Lol.

The Rockets' "good not great" defense is 6th in the league in defensive rating, up from 29th (!) last year. And their "much improved roster" is VanVleet, Brooks, and a rookie Thompson - crazy improvements! The team is projected to beat their initial expected win total by 5-6 games this year; Ime has done a pretty good job in Houston thus far.

Clearly an objective, unbiased take here.

ESPN has them tied for 10th with Chicago. Like I said… Good not great. We get that you hate Joe and can’t be objective, though. Even thought you say your are. Lol.  Ime good, Joe bad…   

In the world of hot takes, I get that it's hard to get a balanced take.

Ime is definitely a better coach. He worked under Pop for a while, and had really good experience for a first time coach. Joe has had much less experience. It makes sense that there would be a drop-off from Ime to Joe.

Those that are unhappy with Joe (but so willing to jump to Ime's support) have picked the wrong target. This was Ime's doing. He was the one responsible.

Did you want Wyc and Brad to overlook Ime's transgressions?

Did you expect Joe to decline the opportunity to be the head coach?

[SparzWizard]

In other breaking news: water is wet!

As others have said, don't think this post has any merit. Houston is significantly improved over last year with the 6th rated defensive rating in the league after being 29th (!) last year, despite still probably having bottom 10 level talent. Joe simply doesn't have any way to compare his ability to coach less talent given both (a) how green he is, and (b) the fact that he's never coached a team without top 5 talent.

The fact of the matter is that Ime turned a dysfunctional, first round exit team with significantly less talent into a competitive Finals team that was likely 4 minutes from a title if we didn't wilt down the stretch in game four, which was largely due to a lack of overall offensive talent or at least the inexperience/youth of our offensive talent. With a significantly more talented team and more stable foundation coming off a Finals run - admittedly notwithstanding with the Ime suspension issues - Joe led the team to nearly being swept by a 8 seed and not even making the Finals, which in large part was due to his limited offensive philosophy. Further, despite having enormous advantages over every other team in our overall record/losses, advanced stats, net rating, etc., most national NBA pundits and experts are still hesitant to choose the Celtics as the favorite or their selection to win the title, with Joe's coaching inexperience and overall extreme three point offensive philosophy the main concerns that are shared for their hesitance to deem the C's their pick.

Until Joe demonstrates otherwise in the playoffs or on a much less talented team, he's clearly an inferior coach to Ime. Such a shame that Ime couldn't keep it in his pants.

I'm not really into the coach wars diatribe, but this seems like an attempt to undermine Joe. No, he didn't get as far in the playoffs under him last season but you can argue that we were a Jayson Tatum ankle sprain away from pulling off a historic comeback to get to the finals. Joe was thrown into a fire on the cusp of preseason with no time to prepare, but with a full offseason we currently have the best record in the league.

It's also not lost on me that the Ime situation could've tanked quite a few locker rooms and last year might've easily been a lost season ala the final Kyrie year. Instead, it was mostly business as usual with championship expectations. I think the coach deserves some credit for that.

But we also had Jaylen Brown who didn't show up when the spotlight was his. Thought he always wanted to be that 1a guy bad, that was his chance to shine. This was against a #8 seeded Heat team who had G-leaguers and those G-leaguers somehow crushed them at the TD Garden.

[jpotter33]

I agree. Rockets are now 6 games under .500 with a much improved roster over the one they had last year. Their defense is good not great, offense is poor. He’s very overrated, IMO.

Lol.

The Rockets' "good not great" defense is 6th in the league in defensive rating, up from 29th (!) last year. And their "much improved roster" is VanVleet, Brooks, and a rookie Thompson - crazy improvements! The team is projected to beat their initial expected win total by 5-6 games this year; Ime has done a pretty good job in Houston thus far.

Clearly an objective, unbiased take here.

ESPN has them tied for 10th with Chicago. Like I said… Good not great. I get that you hate Joe and can’t be objective, though. Even though you say your are. Lol.  Ime good, Joe bad…   

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?Season=2023-24&dir=A&sort=DEF_RATING

They're 6th in defensive rating per NBA's own site.

In other breaking news: water is wet!

As others have said, don't think this post has any merit. Houston is significantly improved over last year with the 6th rated defensive rating in the league after being 29th (!) last year, despite still probably having bottom 10 level talent. Joe simply doesn't have any way to compare his ability to coach less talent given both (a) how green he is, and (b) the fact that he's never coached a team without top 5 talent.

The fact of the matter is that Ime turned a dysfunctional, first round exit team with significantly less talent into a competitive Finals team that was likely 4 minutes from a title if we didn't wilt down the stretch in game four, which was largely due to a lack of overall offensive talent or at least the inexperience/youth of our offensive talent. With a significantly more talented team and more stable foundation coming off a Finals run - admittedly notwithstanding with the Ime suspension issues - Joe led the team to nearly being swept by a 8 seed and not even making the Finals, which in large part was due to his limited offensive philosophy. Further, despite having enormous advantages over every other team in our overall record/losses, advanced stats, net rating, etc., most national NBA pundits and experts are still hesitant to choose the Celtics as the favorite or their selection to win the title, with Joe's coaching inexperience and overall extreme three point offensive philosophy the main concerns that are shared for their hesitance to deem the C's their pick.

Until Joe demonstrates otherwise in the playoffs or on a much less talented team, he's clearly an inferior coach to Ime. Such a shame that Ime couldn't keep it in his pants.

I'm not really into the coach wars diatribe, but this seems like an attempt to undermine Joe. No, he didn't get as far in the playoffs under him last season but you can argue that we were a Jayson Tatum ankle sprain away from pulling off a historic comeback to get to the finals. Joe was thrown into a fire on the cusp of preseason with no time to prepare, but with a full offseason we currently have the best record in the league.

It's also not lost on me that the Ime situation could've tanked quite a few locker rooms and last year might've easily been a lost season ala the final Kyrie year. Instead, it was mostly business as usual with championship expectations. I think the coach deserves some credit for that.

As I mention in my post, I do think he gets some credit/leeway for the timing of the Ime situation leading up to him becoming coach, as well as the assistant coach limitations throughout the year. Then again, that's literally the only way he gets the coaching position at that point, as he simply didn't have the necessary playing or coaching experience to be a serious candidate for that kind of position otherwise. So how much can you really blame that when that was a necessary requirement to happen for him to even have a chance to coach the C's?

Regarding the Tatum ankle issue, that is true, and I do agree that we probably win that series if not for the Tatum ankle situation. But we can't look past the fact that it was Joe's very one-dimensional offensive philosophy that played a major role in getting us into that mess to begin with. That series was a perfect example of the variability of the three point shot and the jumpshot in general, with us just missing shots that we should've made when Miami made shots that they usually didn't. But when the jumpshot makes up so much of your offense and you don't have a robust secondary gameplan to go to when the shots don't fall and you literally just play the averages, those are the kinds of issues you run into.

[jpotter33]

I agree. Rockets are now 6 games under .500 with a much improved roster over the one they had last year. Their defense is good not great, offense is poor. He’s very overrated, IMO.

Lol.

The Rockets' "good not great" defense is 6th in the league in defensive rating, up from 29th (!) last year. And their "much improved roster" is VanVleet, Brooks, and a rookie Thompson - crazy improvements! The team is projected to beat their initial expected win total by 5-6 games this year; Ime has done a pretty good job in Houston thus far.

Clearly an objective, unbiased take here.

ESPN has them tied for 10th with Chicago. Like I said… Good not great. We get that you hate Joe and can’t be objective, though. Even thought you say your are. Lol.  Ime good, Joe bad…   

In the world of hot takes, I get that it's hard to get a balanced take.

Ime is definitely a better coach. He worked under Pop for a while, and had really good experience for a first time coach. Joe has had much less experience. It makes sense that there would be a drop-off from Ime to Joe.

Those that are unhappy with Joe (but so willing to jump to Ime's support) have picked the wrong target. This was Ime's doing. He was the one responsible.

Did you want Wyc and Brad to overlook Ime's transgressions?

Did you expect Joe to decline the opportunity to be the head coach?

Thanks for bringing this up, because I think this is a misconception of some of our positions, or at least mine.

While it's hard to have any firm opinion on this given the inconsistent/lack of information that was shared about the situation, I do fully support the Celtics ultimately moving away from Ime. As beloved as Ime was by the team, organization, and fans and how good of a job he did in his single year here, the fact that we were willing to move away from him tells me that there just wasn't a realistic scenario for him to return, meaning what he did was significant enough to move away from him - whether it was the consent issue, potential coercion, an untenable future with Ime remaining given who the woman and her husband are, etc.

I'm completely fine with that decision, but that is a whole separate issue from us subsequently bringing on a clearly unqualified coach right after that, let alone then quickly giving him a long-term deal when there were still significant questions about him. That just simply wasn't the right decision for this team and was a major factor in our failure to win the title last year.

I won't speak for everyone, but I think most of the pro-Ime/anti-Joe people here are focused solely on the basketball merits, while also understanding the necessity of moving away from Ime.

[tenn_smoothie]

The reality is there will never be a coach here that satisfies anyone lol.

Brad Stevens was ridiculed too. Ime was as well, lets not act like it was all rainbows in his one year here. Even if they fired Joe and hired Cassell, there'd be "fire Cassell" threads posted here ASAP 

Pretty much. There will always be armchair coaches who think they know better or could do better. It doesn't matter who the coach is, some fans will always clamour for the heads.

Win a title, we'll be very happy.

[RJ87]

In other breaking news: water is wet!

As others have said, don't think this post has any merit. Houston is significantly improved over last year with the 6th rated defensive rating in the league after being 29th (!) last year, despite still probably having bottom 10 level talent. Joe simply doesn't have any way to compare his ability to coach less talent given both (a) how green he is, and (b) the fact that he's never coached a team without top 5 talent.

The fact of the matter is that Ime turned a dysfunctional, first round exit team with significantly less talent into a competitive Finals team that was likely 4 minutes from a title if we didn't wilt down the stretch in game four, which was largely due to a lack of overall offensive talent or at least the inexperience/youth of our offensive talent. With a significantly more talented team and more stable foundation coming off a Finals run - admittedly notwithstanding with the Ime suspension issues - Joe led the team to nearly being swept by a 8 seed and not even making the Finals, which in large part was due to his limited offensive philosophy. Further, despite having enormous advantages over every other team in our overall record/losses, advanced stats, net rating, etc., most national NBA pundits and experts are still hesitant to choose the Celtics as the favorite or their selection to win the title, with Joe's coaching inexperience and overall extreme three point offensive philosophy the main concerns that are shared for their hesitance to deem the C's their pick.

Until Joe demonstrates otherwise in the playoffs or on a much less talented team, he's clearly an inferior coach to Ime. Such a shame that Ime couldn't keep it in his pants.

I'm not really into the coach wars diatribe, but this seems like an attempt to undermine Joe. No, he didn't get as far in the playoffs under him last season but you can argue that we were a Jayson Tatum ankle sprain away from pulling off a historic comeback to get to the finals. Joe was thrown into a fire on the cusp of preseason with no time to prepare, but with a full offseason we currently have the best record in the league.

It's also not lost on me that the Ime situation could've tanked quite a few locker rooms and last year might've easily been a lost season ala the final Kyrie year. Instead, it was mostly business as usual with championship expectations. I think the coach deserves some credit for that.

But we also had Jaylen Brown who didn't show up when the spotlight was his. Thought he always wanted to be that 1a guy bad, that was his chance to shine. This was against a #8 seeded Heat team who had G-leaguers and those G-leaguers somehow crushed them at the TD Garden.

Eh. Anyone paying attention to the on/off numbers for the Jays over the last few seasons knew our chances of winning that game plummeted the minute it became clear JT was really hobbled.

[liam]

opps..

[ozgod]

10 in a row 

[celts55]

10 in a row 

Make that 11

[SHAQATTACK]

10 in a row 

FIRE. Ime !


Oh yeah …..AGAIN !

[Phantom255x]

Ime would get killed here too anyways. Brad Stevens didn't escape it either when he was HC here over the years. No coach is ever gonna be perfect.

[Goldstar88]

Also, the Rockets have been beating bad and/or injured teams. E.g. beating OKC the other day when SGA didn’t play…

[Celtics2021]

Also, the Rockets have been beating bad and/or injured teams. E.g. beating OKC the other day when SGA didn’t play…

Yeah, they’re lucky to have gotten the Jazz three times at the end of the year when they’re tanking to try to keep their draft pick, instead of during the Jazz’ 15-5 stretch from mid-December to mid-January, as an example.  Credit to the Rockets for playing hard, and the schedule is what it is, but they’re catching some teams at the right time, to their advantage.

They play real teams that are healthier and with something to play for over their next six games.  Go 4-2 over that stretch, and I’ll give them real credit, but I expect they go 2-4 and fade away.

[JSD]

Interesting that all this happens for Houston after Sengun goes down.

Ewing theory anyone?

[celticsclay]

Interesting that all this happens for Houston after Sengun goes down.

Ewing theory anyone?

Sengun went from underrated to overrated quite quickly. He could become a perennial all star still, but is really bad defensively right now.