Have there been any credible Horford rumors?

[Roy H.]

There’s a ton of discussion of Horford in trade *ideas*, but I can’t remember seeing him in any rumored discussions with other teams.

I I overlooking something?  I keep reading on here about how he’s a productive player with an easily moveable contract.  Yet, crickets.  Why do you think that is?

[johnnygreen]

This might be a good thing. How often do rumors become a reality for trades. Usually, it's the players that weren't discussed that get traded. I would think Horford and his contract would be in demand too. Maybe the problem is not being to add younger pieces like Nesmith or Langford, because the coach hasn't played them and devalued them.

[Who]

[a] A lack of quality assets to put alongside Horford in a trade is an issue. There is no young talent to pair him with. Nesmith, Romeo and Pritchard have all failed to show themselves deserving of major roles on a team thus far.

{b} Rob Williams is a possibility but (1) Stevens has him as close to untouchable (2) many teams around the league are wary of giving up big trade returns for low skilled centers these days as much of their contributions can be replaced by cheaper alternatives.

[c] The third issue I would raise along with the lack of youth and the Rob Williams situation is the consequent forced reliance on giving up future draft picks in order to get a low quality star or perhaps multiple picks and swaps in order to get an aging highly paid quality star on the downward end of his career.

To do this would require Stevens to go all-in or heavy-in in a trade since he would be conceding what little flexibility the team has left to improve itself. It is a big risk and requires a front office leader who is comfortable with big risks. It remains to be seen whether Stevens is much of a risk taker or not. The lack of rumours suggests he is not.

[nickagneta]

[a] A lack of quality assets to put alongside Horford in a trade is an issue. There is no young talent to pair him with. Nesmith, Romeo and Pritchard have all failed to show themselves deserving of major roles on a team thus far.

{b} Rob Williams is a possibility but (1) Stevens has him as close to untouchable (2) many teams around the league are wary of giving up big trade returns for low skilled centers these days as much of their contributions can be replaced by cheaper alternatives.

[c] The third issue I would raise along with the lack of youth and the Rob Williams situation is the consequent forced reliance on giving up future draft picks in order to get a low quality star or perhaps multiple picks and swaps in order to get an aging highly paid quality star on the downward end of his career.

To do this would require Stevens to go all-in or heavy-in in a trade since he would be conceding what little flexibility the team has left to improve itself. It is a big risk and requires a front office leader who is comfortable with big risks. It remains to be seen whether Stevens is much of a risk taker or not. The lack of rumours suggests he is not.

You keep saying Robert Williams is low skilled and the truth of the matter is you are dead wrong. If Timelord develops a reliable outside shot, one that goes out to 15-23 feet, he then has a multitude of skills. Given he has risen his free throw shooting into the low 70's there is great reason and hope to believe he can develop that shot

He is one of the best shot blockers in the league. He can defend at high levels down low, both one on one and from the weak side, at a tremendously high level. He has the quickness and length to switch down to guard and defend them at the perimeter. He most likely will be on several All-Defense teams.

On offense, he is one of the best pick and roll/lob finishers in the league. He sets great picks while barely getting offensive calls against him. His passing skill and ability to see the court and how it should work is well above average, if barely used. He has become a credible free throw shooter. He has decent dribbling skills, which simply aren't used at all and is an amazing rebounder.

Get Robert's shot developed outside so that he can hit it when sagged off or used in the pick and pop and then utilize him as a top of the key offensive initiator, and I am not sure how many more skills you would want out of a young player.

Get his outside shot developed then, begin to use his inherent other skills that are definitely there but underutilized, and you have a complete player that can play the 5 and switch down considerably on defense.

[Goldstar88]

This might be a good thing. How often do rumors become a reality for trades. Usually, it's the players that weren't discussed that get traded. I would think Horford and his contract would be in demand too. Maybe the problem is not being to add younger pieces like Nesmith or Langford, because the coach hasn't played them and devalued them.

Like Kemba Walker?

[jambr380]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes along. The value in Horford is his contract that can be waived in the offseason. If we don’t trade him by the deadline, much of that value is lost (although he is still an expiring).

[Roy H.]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes along. The value in Horford is his contract that can be waived in the offseason. If we don’t trade him by the deadline, much of that value is lost (although he is still an expiring).

I think fans may have overvalued the Horford contract as a trade asset.

I think the most likely result is that we waive Horford is the off-season, paying him $14.5 million not to play for us.  We could still resign him, but I think he leaves.  Wyc will save a ton, meaning we sold a #1 to enrich management further.

I’ll be happy if I’m wrong though.

[Who]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes along. The value in Horford is his contract that can be waived in the offseason. If we don’t trade him by the deadline, much of that value is lost (although he is still an expiring).

I think fans may have overvalued the Horford contract as a trade asset.

I think the most likely result is that we waive Horford is the off-season, paying him $14.5 million not to play for us.  We could still resign him, but I think he leaves.  Wyc will save a ton, meaning we sold a #1 to enrich management further.

I’ll be happy if I’m wrong though.

Expiring contracts in general have little value if you do not have other assets (youth, picks) to put alongside it.

It is not like it was 15 years ago where guys had 7 year contracts and the team had no future if they didn't move him on. Now the contracts are usually only 4 years and they are 1-2 years into the contract already. The downside of bad contracts has been greatly reduced. As a consequence, the upside of expiring contracts has been reduced as well.

[Roy H.]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes along. The value in Horford is his contract that can be waived in the offseason. If we don’t trade him by the deadline, much of that value is lost (although he is still an expiring).

I think fans may have overvalued the Horford contract as a trade asset.

I think the most likely result is that we waive Horford is the off-season, paying him $14.5 million not to play for us.  We could still resign him, but I think he leaves.  Wyc will save a ton, meaning we sold a #1 to enrich management further.

I’ll be happy if I’m wrong though.

Expiring contracts in general have little value if you do not have other assets (youth, picks) to put alongside it.

It is not like it was 15 years ago where guys had 7 year contracts and the team had no future if they didn't move him on. Now the contracts are usually only 4 years and they are 1-2 years into the contract already. The downside of bad contracts has been greatly reduced. As a consequence, the upside of expiring contracts has been reduced as well.

I think that’s right.  Looking around the league, there are only a few situations where Horford’s deal would be seen as a positive.  We could move him for John Wall.  Possibly Westbrook.  I thought Porzingis with some small asset attached to Horford, but not any longer.  Kevin Love doesn’t even seem probable anymore.

I’m curious if the team is shopping him.

[Celtics2021]

There’s a ton of discussion of Horford in trade *ideas*, but I can’t remember seeing him in any rumored discussions with other teams.

I I overlooking something?  I keep reading on here about how he’s a productive player with an easily moveable contract.  Yet, crickets.  Why do you think that is?

Because the Celtics never intended on dumping him midseason.  His contract for next year will be easier to move if the Celtics need to, but barring a blockbuster they always intended for him to be in the team for the year.  That’s why they had a big press conference when he returned — as I said at the time and I reiterate now, you don’t do that for someone you intend to ship out in February.

[Roy H.]

There’s a ton of discussion of Horford in trade *ideas*, but I can’t remember seeing him in any rumored discussions with other teams.

I I overlooking something?  I keep reading on here about how he’s a productive player with an easily moveable contract.  Yet, crickets.  Why do you think that is?

Because the Celtics never intended on dumping him midseason.  His contract for next year will be easier to move if the Celtics need to, but barring a blockbuster they always intended for him to be in the team for the year.  That’s why they had a big press conference when he returned — as I said at the time and I reiterate now, you don’t do that for someone you intend to ship out in February.

Who is going to trade for him next year?  It’s only a valuable contract if some team wants $14.5 million in dead money on their books.

[LilRip]

I’m sure the team is shopping him but Horford’s main value is that his contract can be waived. Meaning we need to be paired up with a selling team who wants bad contracts off their books (like the Kemba Walker max contract). I don’t know how many of those exist (Westbrook? Wall?).

Skill-wise, Horford is getting by through sheer BB IQ and physical play. He’s a “stretch 4” who can’t really shoot and a “post player” who can’t really finish. He’s valuable out there but not as valuable when you don’t have the team in place.

[liam]

Oops.

[todd_days_41]

I think he's unlikely to be traded, because:

• No one wants to pay him $27 mil to play for them next year
• No one wants to pay him $14 mil not to play for him next year
• The Cs don't have great assets to conclude a large salary blockbuster where Horford is used to fill salary

The most reasonable scenario I see is Horford being dealt to a team deep in the Tax with no chance of winning, like the Clippers. Trading some of their vets for Horford (who they'd cut this summer) would save Balmer a buncha cash.