Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article

[Ogaju]

looks like the author reads the forums.

[keevsnick]

I mean..... wouldn't literally everybody rather score 39 than 15 if you are gonna win either way?

[todd_days_41]

Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

Will Tatum need the same thing Pierce did (a better player to come in and anchor the team, plus another HOFer) to be successful?

Like just about every player in the NBA you mean?

Actually no. Durant, LeBron, Giannis and endless others didn’t need a better player than them traded to their team to win a championship. Pierce did. Simple as that.

[gouki88]

Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

Will Tatum need the same thing Pierce did (a better player to come in and anchor the team, plus another HOFer) to be successful?

Like just about every player in the NBA you mean?

Actually no. Durant, LeBron, Giannis and endless others didn’t need a better player than them traded to their team to win a championship. Pierce did. Simple as that.

Sorry, how many titles did LeBron or Durant win before jumping to a better team?

[tenn_smoothie]

I don’t think it totally untrue. Maybe a little strong but I feel similar about most young players Tatum’s age. They want to prove that they “belong” and be recognized by the likes of Durant etc. Tatum is no different. He’s 23. He’ll get it. It took Pierce years to figure it out. Same with other star players in the past. JB and JT aren’t surrounded by MVP players to pick them up and show them the ropes to “figuring it out”.

I do not agree with the part about not caring about winning.
Seems odd considering the Cs relative success since Tatum joined the team.

Paul Pierce would never have figured anything out if not for Kevin Garnett.

I was all for getting rid of these scoring, ball-dominant point guards and building around Tatum and Brown. I still think that a playmaking point guard is the way to go, but I'm not so sure anymore that the J's have the ability to lead us back to title contention. Maybe they are too redundant to compliment each other the way past Celtic duos have. Other than Marcus Smart, there is not really a fierce competitor on this team and he runs hot & cold and up to this season, has been a dumb basketball player.

Tatum may be seen as untouchable, but imagine the haul of assets he could bring in a trade. Or possibly, he could return us that one tough-minded, talented competitor + draft picks to help this team find its way. The Celts would retain Smart and Brown as compliments to this new and younger version of a KG/Jimmy Butler type star whose only priority is winning a title.

Probably never happen, then again, it could be that the only way to become serious contenders again is a major shakeup.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I have serious doubts about trading Tatum for assets (because, in all likelihood, they're not going to net a player as good as Tatum is now) and I'm not sure that a similar player to New KG exists in the league right now.

I've thought the same thing. Not sure who that player might be that we could trade for that would have a similar impact as Garnett did. He was a very special combo of talent and mental toughness. Jimmy Butler comes to mind. He is a little older, but not so old that he couldn't come in and lead us to a couple of titles. This current group's mental and physical toughness have always been a problem. Think of Butler, Horford, Marcus and Jaylen as players who I think would prioritize winning over anything else. Add our young talent plus a couple of catch & shoot guys and we are much closer in ability and mentality to contending for a title.

[PAOBoston]

I don’t think it totally untrue. Maybe a little strong but I feel similar about most young players Tatum’s age. They want to prove that they “belong” and be recognized by the likes of Durant etc. Tatum is no different. He’s 23. He’ll get it. It took Pierce years to figure it out. Same with other star players in the past. JB and JT aren’t surrounded by MVP players to pick them up and show them the ropes to “figuring it out”.

I do not agree with the part about not caring about winning.
Seems odd considering the Cs relative success since Tatum joined the team.

Paul Pierce would never have figured anything out if not for Kevin Garnett.

I was all for getting rid of these scoring, ball-dominant point guards and building around Tatum and Brown. I still think that a playmaking point guard is the way to go, but I'm not so sure anymore that the J's have the ability to lead us back to title contention. Maybe they are too redundant to compliment each other the way past Celtic duos have. Other than Marcus Smart, there is not really a fierce competitor on this team and he runs hot & cold and up to this season, has been a dumb basketball player.

Tatum may be seen as untouchable, but imagine the haul of assets he could bring in a trade. Or possibly, he could return us that one tough-minded, talented competitor + draft picks to help this team find its way. The Celts would retain Smart and Brown as compliments to this new and younger version of a  KG/Jimmy Butler type star whose only priority is winning a title.

Probably never happen, then again, it could be that the only way to become serious contenders again is a major shakeup.

You are correct about Pierce. I think the Cs thought Kyrie could be that guy. MVP type caliber talent with championship pedigree. That obviously did not work out well. My biggest gripe with the teams of the last few years has been not enough veterans (stars or role players) who had that type of experience. The Horford/Hayward/Walkers of the world are nice players but have never been “winners”. Instead of going all in on development the Cs needed to bring in more of those guys to provide that “guidance” to JT (and JB).

[BudweiserCeltic]

Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

Will Tatum need the same thing Pierce did (a better player to come in and anchor the team, plus another HOFer) to be successful?

Like just about every player in the NBA you mean?

Actually no. Durant, LeBron, Giannis and endless others didn’t need a better player than them traded to their team to win a championship. Pierce did. Simple as that.

You seem quite lost on the trajectory of Durant and LeBron, to say nothing under the conditions in which Giannis won, but won't go there. Also, you know that your standard here are MVP, once in a lifetime type of players right?

Sure, nitpicking on the "better" player aspect, but it's immaterial in the end.

[No Nickname]

I don’t think it totally untrue. Maybe a little strong but I feel similar about most young players Tatum’s age. They want to prove that they “belong” and be recognized by the likes of Durant etc. Tatum is no different. He’s 23. He’ll get it. It took Pierce years to figure it out. Same with other star players in the past. JB and JT aren’t surrounded by MVP players to pick them up and show them the ropes to “figuring it out”.

I do not agree with the part about not caring about winning.
Seems odd considering the Cs relative success since Tatum joined the team.

Paul Pierce would never have figured anything out if not for Kevin Garnett.

I was all for getting rid of these scoring, ball-dominant point guards and building around Tatum and Brown. I still think that a playmaking point guard is the way to go, but I'm not so sure anymore that the J's have the ability to lead us back to title contention. Maybe they are too redundant to compliment each other the way past Celtic duos have. Other than Marcus Smart, there is not really a fierce competitor on this team and he runs hot & cold and up to this season, has been a dumb basketball player.

Tatum may be seen as untouchable, but imagine the haul of assets he could bring in a trade. Or possibly, he could return us that one tough-minded, talented competitor + draft picks to help this team find its way. The Celts would retain Smart and Brown as compliments to this new and younger version of a  KG/Jimmy Butler type star whose only priority is winning a title.

Probably never happen, then again, it could be that the only way to become serious contenders again is a major shakeup.

You are correct about Pierce. I think the Cs thought Kyrie could be that guy. MVP type caliber talent with championship pedigree. That obviously did not work out well. My biggest gripe with the teams of the last few years has been not enough veterans (stars or role players) who had that type of experience. The Horford/Hayward/Walkers of the world are nice players but have never been “winners”. Instead of going all in on development the Cs needed to bring in more of those guys to provide that “guidance” to JT (and JB).

Agreed. The Celtics needed a Chris Paul type. 

Other players that I think would fit that bill (not that we could get them):

Kyle Lowry
Jimmy Butler
Gorman Dragic
DeMar DeRozen

[tenn_smoothie]

We would have a very good chance of acquiring those type of players if Tatum was available.

I may be wrong, I hope I'm wrong - but more and more, my impression of Tatum is that of an empty stat guy.
He is very talented, no question, and his big scoring nights sometimes help the team win games.
But he doesn't have the type of game, or mentality, that drives a team to playoff success.

Tatum wants to win, sure, but he doesn't need to win.

[Csfan1984]

Tatum feels like Paul George slightly more offense and less defense. Both guys you feel could be better and tend to play "their" style of play regardless of the scenario. I don't mind that. Still top 20 players capable of exploding. Not going to call either guy a leader.

Brown I feel would be a Butler level leader if Smart wasn't here. Think Brown tries to stay cool because Smart is always wound up. If Smart was gone I'd expect we see Brown step up on the leadership role.

The problem is the rest of the roster. Not enough shooters. No reliable big man. A below average bench.

[todd_days_41]

Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

Will Tatum need the same thing Pierce did (a better player to come in and anchor the team, plus another HOFer) to be successful?

Like just about every player in the NBA you mean?

Actually no. Durant, LeBron, Giannis and endless others didn’t need a better player than them traded to their team to win a championship. Pierce did. Simple as that.

You seem quite lost on the trajectory of Durant and LeBron, to say nothing under the conditions in which Giannis won, but won't go there. Also, you know that your standard here are MVP, once in a lifetime type of players right?

Sure, nitpicking on the "better" player aspect, but it's immaterial in the end.

They’re all currently playing. So maybe not once in a lifetime.

I really don’t understand ur argument. Clearly Tatum is not as good as any of those three, and may need an MVP type addition (like Garnett was to Pierce) to make the Cs championship caliber. This is not a controversial take in any way, shape, or form.

[keevsnick]

Lebron was 27 when he won his first title.
Giannis was 26 when he won his first title.
Durant was 28 when he won his first title.
Steph was 27 when he won his first title.
All the Celtics guys were in their 30's.

Sometimes it take time, Tatum and Brown are 23.5 and just turned 25. They may just not be ready. 

[footey]

Lebron was 27 when he won his first title.
Giannis was 26 when he won his first title.
Durant was 28 when he won his first title.
Steph was 27 when he won his first title.
All the Celtics guys were in their 30's.

Sometimes it take time, Tatum and Brown are 23.5 and just turned 25. They may just not be ready.

Lebron, Giannis, Durant and Steph were significantly better than either J before they won their first championship. And the had teammates that were at least the equal of Tatum and Brown, and far better than the teammates of J/J.   Our team offense continues to be a huge disappointment.  Our defense is what has kept our head above water (barely).  The team needs to restructure the offensive sets, they are so boring and predictable.  guys standing around too much.  Study the Warriors, their off ball movement is like the 60's Celtics.  And what happened to the pledge to make us a running team? We are ranked 28th in transition offense, which is pathetic. 

I have faith in Ime that he will work on making these changes. 

[Rosco917]

Tatum feels like Paul George slightly more offense and less defense. Both guys you feel could be better and tend to play "their" style of play regardless of the scenario. I don't mind that. Still top 20 players capable of exploding. Not going to call either guy a leader.

Brown I feel would be a Butler level leader if Smart wasn't here. Think Brown tries to stay cool because Smart is always wound up. If Smart was gone I'd expect we see Brown step up on the leadership role.

The problem is the rest of the roster. Not enough shooters. No reliable big man. A below average bench.

You develop players, by giving opportunities to shoot the ball when open. It's fundamentally how you BUILD a basketball TEAM...you instill confidence by trusting. While making unproven shooters more comfortable as they WORK to free themselves from the opposing defense.

You don't say, "I'm taking most of the shots even with hands waving in my face, and off-balance, because I'm the better shooter no matter what." Your teammates eventually stop moving and eventually stop defending. Yeah, when they FINALLY get an opportunity they choke.     

It's the reason Ben Simmons can hit three after three shooting alone in a gym, but stumbles in front of fifteen thousand screaming fans while shooting free throws.

[Rosco917]

Example: The Boston Celtics developed a young Jae Crowder when he played with that Celtic team lead by IT.  Turning him into a solid all around player.